Educate Me on Anchor Chain

caltexflanc said:

Still doesn't make sense. How deep was the water?

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We drifted until it hit bottom, so pretty much 575' more or less. I don't see what is difficult to grasp here. Approx 600' of chain and a 55# anchor. This was 15 yrs and 3 boats ago so I am not sure if it was 1/4 or 5/16 chain. Anyway you cut it you are looking at 600#. I don't make stuff up, in case you are wondering.

Wayfarer said:

Bump... I currently have about 2' of chain, and an otherwise all nylon rode setup. My rode is pretty worn and needs replacing. I'm going to replace it with a length of chain, probably less than 50' and a new length of nylon.

My question is... does it matter whether I go with galvanized or stainless? I'm in fresh water exclusively, so I can't imagine it makes too much of a difference.

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I'd go w 50 - 100' of chain spliced to 200' of nylon Brait. With 100' of 1/4" chain in 20' of water you've got 5-1 w all chain and lots of backup for when it blows. Or if your rubber band quits a 300' rode may keep you off the beach.

ktdtx said:

Did I read in this thread that there is no way to splice chain and have it work properly in a windlass?

If I have 200' and want to go to 300' there is no splicing? I just throw away the 200' and go buy 300' of new chain?

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No, you don't need to dump the existing 200 ft. I used one of these about 5 years ago when I added 90 ft to my existing 30 ft spliced to 240 ft of 8-ply Brait.



After 5 years of heavy use sturgeon fishing in local waters, it still looks as good as the day I installed it. I keep a spare onboard as a comparison reference and for replacement if needed. I keep a cable wrap on it as a 30' incremental depth marker and check it regularly. I have never had a problem with mine and it flows through my combo windlass gypsy as well as any other link.

I recently retied my splice after much consternation when it started looking a bit worn. It turned out like the originally pro-tied splice but I still think this is my weakest link.

Nothing wrong with more chain if your boat can carry and your windlass can lift all the weight. Personally, I wouldn't go over 50% of the windlass rating for reliability and longevity.

Buyer beware that there are come Cheap Chinese Crap (CCC) links out there. Search the archives for prior conversations on the subject. Buy quality. Even the best are very affordable.

If you are going to splice chain to brait make sure you don't just splice to the end link.


Spell check via iPhone.

Larmex:
With a Lofrans Tigres, rated at 1000 watts, I pulled up a trailer that my 45# anchor was fouled in. I guestimate the total weight at 1500 to 2000#. The windlass complained, but managed without blowing or frying anything.

Sounds like your windlass was undersized for the boat, or had other issues. Good that was three boats ago and not a present problem.

I have 100' of chain and 300' of nylon. I like the nylon because it is quiet, no noisy chain noises while it rattles on the bottom. I also don't need a snubber as I have a drum windlass.

Xsbank said:

I have 100' of chain and 300' of nylon. I like the nylon because it is quiet, no noisy chain noises while it rattles on the bottom. I also don't need a snubber as I have a drum windlass.

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Chain rattling to the bottom is music.

I got a deal on some G4 size stainless chain about twenty years ago. It is a little stronger than G3 and BBB. Weaker than G4. The nice thing about it is that mud doesn't stick to it. My rode is made of about 25 feet of 1/4" SS Chain and about 200 feet of 1/2" nylon. The deepest water I've ever anchored in was about 80 feet while I was fishing.

Al, those links when properly installed should match the strength of G3 or BBB. In G4 they are literally the weak link. That said, G3 strength may be all you need.

Chain Vs chain/rode is really dependent on where you go and how you like to anchor...

Weekend boats that anchor in sand and don't care how much they swing can get away with a combo chain/rode..

You will NEVER see a combo rode on a passage making trawler.. because you most likely don't know the bottom and its nice to limit swing in the crowded anchorages that are in the major ports world wide that cruisers typically frequent.

With all the logs and snags and logging cables in DEEP anchorages in the PNW chain works best... limits swinging and you are able to get away with shortened scope.

On a planing boat weight forward is critical so a lighter anchoring system sometimes is called for.

On my own Ocean Alexander I carry 350' of 3/8 HT. chain and am really happy with the setup.

Regarding the O.P question of adding to the chain, I have had good results with a add a link.. never had one fail yet. I really like the idea of marking it to keep a better eye on it.

HOLLYWOOD

Thanks, so there are a couple of options to add more chain that will still go thru the windlass.

ktdtx said:

Thanks, so there are a couple of options to add more chain that will still go thru the windlass.

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Yes, look again at posts 46 & 63...

"With all the logs and snags and logging cables in DEEP anchorages in the PNW chain works best."

I would think an anchor trip line would be better insurance on retreval, than short scope in a known foul bottom.

I used a master link as pictured in Flywrights post #63 on a all chain mooring, in 18 years of use never had one fail. I bought them from a commercial shrimp boat supplier where they made the grade in on the job use. You will need an anvil and good ball peen hammer to peen the tangs securely.

All of you guys using the connecting links with G4 chain, keep in mind that the link is only about half as strong as your chain. If you're not breaking them, maybe you don't need high tensile chain.

FF said:

"With all the logs and snags and logging cables in DEEP anchorages in the PNW chain works best."

I would think an anchor trip line would be better insurance on retreval, than short scope in a known foul bottom.

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think of it this way, would you want a rope rode rubbing around cables with meat hooks and logs with broken off branches?

Also we often anchor in deep water in narrow bays/inlets that limit swinging room.. you can practically hear the moans and see the rolling eyes when a boat ( typically sail ) drops tree times the amount of rode of the already anchored boats in a narrow anchorage.. we all so look forward to the bump at 3am as the boat wonders around the anchorage... not constrained by dragging chain. It typically happens at the change of tide.. which can be up to 15 feet.

If I look at how we anchor in the B.V.I. when we are down there.. in 10' of water with the trades keeping us in one position.. with a all sand bottom, chain isn't necessary. But still for some reason ALL the crewed charter boats use chain.. go figure.
HOLLYWOOD

"But still for some reason ALL the crewed charter boats use chain.. go figure"

Chain in sand comes up nice and clean , so they don't have to any spend time washing/scrubbing it before allowing it below decks to avoid the LOW TIDE stench.

HOLLYWOOD,
You think the guy w the long rode out is in the wrong (or rude at best) but he probably thinks you all are all in the wrong and will be on the beach when the wind blows while he will not. He probably thinks he's doing it right and you probably do as well.

Different rodes are correct for different boats. But to be aware and not rude the sailboat should shorten up after setting hard and deep. But if it blows really hard the sailboat can slack off when there's room and shorten up when there isn't. If all the boats have good anchors they will all start dragging at the same time and at roughly the same scope.

I once heard a group of fishermen in Alaska talk'in about a guy that just started commercial fishing. It went like this ... "and here comes Johnson after we're all set .. he's swing'in all over the place ... ".
I've seen fishermen anchor w heavy chain and their chain goes straight down from the bow. It's easy to assume the anchor is straight down but in most cases it's not. Fishermen are definitely smart enough to consider tides and to put out enough rode to have a reasonable scope if the wind does pick up ... and the tide comes in. But you can understand their disappointment when at the end of a hard day they come to their favorite anchorage and there's a pleasureboat right in the middle of their/the anchorage w a skinny white nylon rode stick'in way out beyond their bow. Kinda like the guy in the picture. But he's in Duncan Canal w no other boat in sight.

But consider if another man has a small light boat he's going to have a light rode. And he will probably consider a 4-1 scope to be about the safe minimum so unless the water's only 10' deep he's going to have a wide swing. And he most likely will not be a fool.

Hollywood wrote .. "would you want a rope rode rubbing around cables with meat hooks and logs with broken off branches?" I've spent some time in Alaska and not had any of the perceived problems associated w the quote above. But I did bring up a tree branch about as big as my boat. The only disadvantage I've experienced w nylon rodes is the swinging in anchorages in light breezes. No performance issues up north at all.

Larmex99 said:

We drifted until it hit bottom, so pretty much 575' more or less. I don't see what is difficult to grasp here. Approx 600' of chain and a 55# anchor. This was 15 yrs and 3 boats ago so I am not sure if it was 1/4 or 5/16 chain. Anyway you cut it you are looking at 600#. I don't make stuff up, in case you are wondering.

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That's all you had to say; you never told us how much water you were in. That's what made it difficult to grasp. So all of the chain was vertical above the seabed and the anchor too. I'd agree that 600 feet of chain doesn't make much sense for virtually any recreational boat, especially without a windlass up to the task. But applying that lesson to any rode length does not make sense. You yourself said things were cool after 150' had been hauled in.

caltexflanc said:

I'd agree that 600 feet of chain doesn't make much sense for virtually any recreational boat...

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Unless you live where tides are over 20 feet, there are mountains jumping right out of the water, chart data for what small estuaries do exist are almost 100 years old, and mind boggling amounts of sediment have changed where the intertidal zones and deep water are.

Watching this thread with interest for when we get a winter storm anchor in a couple years. Leaning towards 100' of chain and 500' of 8 strand nylon, so far.

Xsbank said:

I have 100' of chain and 300' of nylon. I like the nylon because it is quiet, no noisy chain noises while it rattles on the bottom. I also don't need a snubber as I have a drum windlass.

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You don't need a snubber if you have the nylon out. If not you should use a snubber no matter what kind of windlass you have, unless you are on a ship with a whole different design of ground tackle.

Our PNW benign weather would not normally require a snubber.

Why use a snubber when you're just holding the chain up?

"Real" boats/barges don't use snubbers:

markpierce said:

"Real" boats/barges don't use snubbers:

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Now why would that be a snubber?

On an all chain rode, a snubber isn't for shock absorption, as the catenarey of the chain is very effective, especially in deeper water. What the snubber does, is eliminate the noise of the chain being hauled across the rocks below. Without a snubber, that noise is loud enough to wake even a heavy sleeper. Our wooden boat friends don't need teh snubber, as their hulls do the same job.

koliver,
The steeper the chain or the lower the scope (as in deep water) the LESS effect catenary will have. Catenary is at it's maximum when the rode is horizontal. And there is no cat at all when the rode is vertical.

I really don't know if it's true but they say that w a good bottom and good anchor all the catenary will be gone in a hard blow. There would probably not be enough cat to effectively do any measurable good but I don't think it would be gone. It would obviously be if a boat in the wind could pull that hard .. that's what I doubt. 100' or so of chain is very heavy.

Scott, my point was that "real" ships DON'T use snubbers.