Algae X

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Not exactly, I had De-Bugs on a boat back in the day. Can't say I could see where they were doing anything.

And is it any surprise that once someone has spent their money, bought them and installed them they then think they are working? Even with no quantifiable evidence that they do work. And even when there is strong evidence to the contrary.

As I said, and as you perhaps missed, my experience and opinion is based on the clearing on a previous vessel of a fairly significant level of bacterial contamination. The only change was the addition of the De-bug unit. And your first hand experience of contamination not being cleaned would be....?

I gather your opinion is based on the fact that you had the units and had no contamination, therefore they were doing nothing. Got it.
 
Apparently the Coast Guard has reached a different opinion on this particular technology. Whether it is better than alternatives or worth the money is probably a separate question, but the assertion that there is no objective evidence of efficacy is an opinion not supported by the data.

http://www.de-bug.co.nz/Clippings & Articles/Article from the U.S. Coast Guard.pdf

"De-Bug TM units have been used successfully in a wide range of sizes and in various applications. De-Bug TM users include: military forces of several nations; marine interests; other transportation sectors; police and fire services; and commercial/industrial sector clients. The largest unit in use to date is a Model L-50,000 (with a design flow rate of 13,225 gallons per hour) installed, with ABS approval, on the 267 meter M/V Cossack Pioneer."

Apparently a lot of dupes out there...:facepalm:
 
Apparently the Coast Guard has reached a different opinion on this particular technology. Whether it is better than alternatives or worth the money is probably a separate question, but the assertion that there is no objective evidence of efficacy is an opinion not supported by the data.

http://www.de-bug.co.nz/Clippings & Articles/Article from the U.S. Coast Guard.pdf

"De-Bug TM units have been used successfully in a wide range of sizes and in various applications. De-Bug TM users include: military forces of several nations; marine interests; other transportation sectors; police and fire services; and commercial/industrial sector clients. The largest unit in use to date is a Model L-50,000 (with a design flow rate of 13,225 gallons per hour) installed, with ABS approval, on the 267 meter M/V Cossack Pioneer."

Apparently a lot of dupes out there...:facepalm:

Apparently there are a lot of dupes out there ....
The publication you are referring to states " The views expressed are those of the authors and do not represent official Coast Guard policy".

This USCG publication is provided as a forum for maritime discussion and anyone can submit an article such as this one which by the way once again offers nothing but unsupported anecdotes.

I think its curious that the only reference online for the author is in relation to this article.
 
I read the stuff on the De-Bug TM site and here is what I see is the major flaw with this and other similar systems like Algae-X. Let's say for the moment that the weak magnetic fields set up by these systems actually do what the De-Bug TM people claim, and kill the bacteria by tearing them apart.

So what?

The units are installed in the fuel lines between the tank(s) and the engine(s). At least that's how they've been illustrated in all the literature I've seen about them over the years. So the tiny dead bodies get fed to the engines. Again, so what? It's not like the engine's going to stop.

And before one says, well, the filters will catch the dead bodies before they get to the engine, why won't the same filters catch the live bodies?

It's always been my understanding that the real problem with bacterial and micro-organism growth in fuel is in the tanks where the fuel sits. Over time this contributes to the crud accumulating in the tank which can eventually find its way into the filters and clog them. So it would seem that if one wants to use magnetic fields to kill bugs the place to do it is in the tank, not in the fuel line on the way to the engine.

A co-worker in our department in the early 80s was sucker for quasi-scientific miracle cures. One day he saw a magazine ad for a magnetic device that was guaranteed to increase the mileage of a car by at least 15 or 20 percent. The device was mail order and it cost $50.

He ordered one, and what he got for his $50 was a small carboard box containing two small cylindrical magnets with rounded ends, a small roll of electrical tape, and a sheet of instructions. He had recently purchased a new car, a Buick as I recall, and like most cars in the early 80s it had a carburetor.

The instructions said to tape the two magnets to the fuel line just before it entered the carburetor. It was "very important" that the magnetic poles were aligned in a specific way.

The theory, backed up with a bunch of scientific blather in the ad and on the instructions, was that as the fuel passed between the magnets the magnetic field would align the molecules in such a way to make them burn more efficiently.

So this fellow dutifully installed the magnets and began keeping meticulous records of his fuel usage.

But..... our video engineer, quite the practical joker, immediately began adding gas to the fellow's car when he was at the cafeteria for lunch. This was in the days before locking gas caps were common, so it was easy to do.

The Buick had been getting about 15 mpg or so on this fellow's daily commute. When his mileage rocketed up into the mid 20s he was ecstatic and he lost no opportunity to preach the wonders of the effect of magnetic fields on fuel molecules to all of us and urge us to buy and install the same kit.

Our engineer kept this up for about a month. And then one day he stopped putting fuel in the car at lunchtime. The Buick's mileage immediately went back to 15 mpg.

Our co-worker was frantic. He remounted the magnets. He realigned their positions. When nothing worked, he even ordered another $50 kit. He tried to contact the company that sold the kit but could never get through.

Through all this he maintained his steadfast belief that the magnetic field theory of fuel economy was totally valid and miraculous. He'd experienced it, right?

I asked him one day if it had ever occurred to him that even if the magnetic field did "align" the fuel molecules, the fuel was then dumping into the float bowl where it was going to get shook up and heated up and then sucked through the jets and through the manifolds and valves and into the cylinders and how would fuel molecules remain "aligned" through all of that even if by some miracle they had been back at the magnets, but he refused to accept any of that.

He left our organization a few months later for another position in the company. When I saw him again a couple of years after that I asked him if he was still running the magnets on his fuel line. He said yes, and he was convinced that if he kept monkeying with them he'd get his mid-20s mileage back again.

BTW, our engineer told me what the magnets in the kit were. They were cow magnets which could be purchased at farm stores for 25 cents apiece or something like that. They are round and smooth because their purpose is to be "fed" to a cow where it ends up in the first stomach and captures bits of wire and fence nails and other metal bits that cows can pick up while grazing and prevents them from moving farther through the digestive system.

Sometimes the most scientific-sounding "explanation" just can't trump basic logic and common sense.
 

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As I said, and as you perhaps missed, my experience and opinion is based on the clearing on a previous vessel of a fairly significant level of bacterial contamination. The only change was the addition of the De-bug unit. And your first hand experience of contamination not being cleaned would be....?

I gather your opinion is based on the fact that you had the units and had no contamination, therefore they were doing nothing. Got it.

No you don't got it. But you did get taken. :D
 
I read the stuff on the De-Bug TM site and here is what I see is the major flaw with this and other similar systems like Algae-X. Let's say for the moment that the weak magnetic fields set up by these systems actually do what the De-Bug TM people claim, and kill the bacteria by tearing them apart.

So what?

The units are installed in the fuel lines between the tank(s) and the engine(s). At least that's how they've been illustrated in all the literature I've seen about them over the years. So the tiny dead bodies get fed to the engines. Again, so what? It's not like the engine's going to stop.

And before one says, well, the filters will catch the dead bodies before they get to the engine, why won't the same filters catch the live bodies?

It's always been my understanding that the real problem with bacterial and micro-organism growth in fuel is in the tanks where the fuel sits. Over time this contributes to the crud accumulating in the tank which can eventually find its way into the filters and clog them. So it would seem that if one wants to use magnetic fields to kill bugs the place to do it is in the tank, not in the fuel line on the way to the engine.

A co-worker in our department in the early 80s was sucker for quasi-scientific miracle cures. One day he saw a magazine ad for a magnetic device that was guaranteed to increase the mileage of a car by at least 15 or 20 percent. The device was mail order and it cost $50.

He ordered one, and what he got for his $50 was a small carboard box containing two small cylindrical magnets with rounded ends, a small roll of electrical tape, and a sheet of instructions. He had recently purchased a new car, a Buick as I recall, and like most cars in the early 80s it had a carburetor.

The instructions said to tape the two magnets to the fuel line just before it entered the carburetor. It was "very important" that the magnetic poles were aligned in a specific way.

The theory, backed up with a bunch of scientific blather in the ad and on the instructions, was that as the fuel passed between the magnets the magnetic field would align the molecules in such a way to make them burn more efficiently.

So this fellow dutifully installed the magnets and began keeping meticulous records of his fuel usage.

But..... our video engineer, quite the practical joker, immediately began adding gas to the fellow's car when he was at the cafeteria for lunch. This was in the days before locking gas caps were common, so it was easy to do.

The Buick had been getting about 15 mpg or so on this fellow's daily commute. When his mileage rocketed up into the mid 20s he was ecstatic and he lost no opportunity to preach the wonders of the effect of magnetic fields on fuel molecules to all of us and urge us to buy and install the same kit.

Our engineer kept this up for about a month. And then one day he stopped putting fuel in the car at lunchtime. The Buick's mileage immediately went back to 15 mpg.

Our co-worker was frantic. He remounted the magnets. He realigned their positions. When nothing worked, he even ordered another $50 kit. He tried to contact the company that sold the kit but could never get through.

Through all this he maintained his steadfast belief that the magnetic field theory of fuel economy was totally valid and miraculous. He'd experienced it, right?

I asked him one day if it had ever occurred to him that even if the magnetic field did "align" the fuel molecules, the fuel was then dumping into the float bowl where it was going to get shook up and heated up and then sucked through the jets and through the manifolds and valves and into the cylinders and how would fuel molecules remain "aligned" through all of that even if by some miracle they had been back at the magnets, but he refused to accept any of that.

He left our organization a few months later for another position in the company. When I saw him again a couple of years after that I asked him if he was still running the magnets on his fuel line. He said yes, and he was convinced that if he kept monkeying with them he'd get his mid-20s mileage back again.

BTW, our engineer told me what the magnets in the kit were. They were cow magnets which could be purchased at farm stores for 25 cents apiece or something like that. They are round and smooth because their purpose is to be "fed" to a cow where it ends up in the first stomach and captures bits of wire and fence nails and other metal bits that cows can pick up while grazing and prevents them from moving farther through the digestive system.

Sometimes the most scientific-sounding "explanation" just can't trump basic logic and common sense.

Marin, just FYI, but they are not cow magnets. Be that as it may, these units are in government and commercial vessels worldwide. Had I not had a contamination problem that was cleaned up by one of these units, no doubt I would also be skeptical. However, I have the specific experience of having to change filters every month or so, and then not at all after installing one. Reaching the conclusion that something doesn't work on the basis that you can't observe it solving a problem you don't have is pretty moronic.

To the OP's question, yes, there is evidence they work and a lot of people who assert they don't because they can't see them clearing up a problem they aren't experiencing, or who have no experience whatsoever.

Like a certain bodily orifice, everyone has an opinion. Cheers.
 
Marin, just FYI, but they are not cow magnets

I worked on a farm as a kid .... we did feed this type of magnets to cows.
If you have scientific evidence, let's see it instead of unsubstantiated magazine articles of dubious origins.
 
That story reminds me of the one about the guy who bought a VW bug when the first came out. His neighbor got so tire of hearing how great the mileage was for the bug that he started adding has to the bug at night. His neighbor raved even more about the milage, then after a couple months the guy started siphoning out fuel. Drove the bug owner buggy to the point he took it back to the dealer demanding that they find the fault in the engine that was causing it to lose mileage.

Also reminds me of the time my friend found out he had the same TV as his friend and next door neighbor. So he would sneek over and and change the channels and settings on his neighbors TV set through the window. But only when the man of the house was alone in the room. Everytime anyone else came in the room and the man tried to show them how the TV was misbehaving my friend outside the window would stop messing with the TV. He finally had to stop doing it and fess up to his neighbor because the guys family was beginning to think he was going nuts.
 
Reaching the conclusion that something doesn't work on the basis that you can't observe it solving a problem you don't have is pretty moronic.

I don't disagree with this at all. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on one's point of view, I'm not basing my assessment on something not solving a problem I don't have but on the UK laboratory tests I mentioned in an earlier post that pretty definitively proved that the Algae-X does nothing whatsoever with regards to its magnetic properties having any effect on fuel or things in it.

I have seen references to other tests over the years that demonstrated the same thing, but the one I mentioned is the only one I've actually read.

These tests were conducted with the Algae-X. I had never heard of or seen reference to the De Bug TM system before this thread so I have no idea how the two systems are similar or different.
 
I worked on a farm as a kid .... we did feed this type of magnets to cows.
If you have scientific evidence, let's see it instead of unsubstantiated magazine articles of dubious origins.

Perhaps I should have been clearer. When I said that they are not cow magnets, I was referring to the topic at hand. The Debug unit does not use cow magnets, unless ceramic coated, donut magnets are what you fed to your cows, which I doubt. Marin's posting of cow magnets was much appreciated, if irrelevant.

Regarding scientific evidence, you can find the same objections to using a product like Debug that you can to polishing fuel or bypass filters. You don't need to polish your fuel, at least based on those with 200 gallon tanks and there is no scientific evidence proving you do, just the experience of users. And you don't need a bypass filter, since they don't come standard on diesel engines, even though they are commonplace in the commercial fleet. And you don't need a Debug unit when you don't have the problem they are designed to solve. Now if you did, you might find them efficacious, as I did. In the which case your opinion would be based on personal experience, but then again, perhaps just opinion is good enough.
 
I don't disagree with this at all. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on one's point of view, I'm not basing my assessment on something not solving a problem I don't have but on the UK laboratory tests I mentioned in an earlier post that pretty definitively proved that the Algae-X does nothing whatsoever with regards to its magnetic properties having any effect on fuel or things in it.

I have seen references to other tests over the years that demonstrated the same thing, but the one I mentioned is the only one I've actually read.

These tests were conducted with the Algae-X. I had never heard of or seen reference to the De Bug TM system before this thread so I have no idea how the two systems are similar or different.
I have no personal experience with the Algae X unit, so I can't comment.
 
No you don't got it. But you did get taken. :D

So that would be confirmation that you have no experience with contamination occurring with such a unit, therefore your experience would be evidence they don't work. Novel approach to reality, but hey, if it works for you, go for it.
 
Marin's posting of cow magnets was much appreciated, if irrelevant.

You failed to understand my point. The point was not what kind of magnets are involved, it was that sometimes "scientific" explanations are negated by common sense and logic.

Thus the parallel between my ex-co-worker's determination to ignore what happened to the fuel in his car after it passed between the cow magnets and into the float bowl and how this negated the "molecule alignment" theory, and the passage of fuel through the magnetic field inside an Algae-X on it's way up the line to the engine which is not where the fuel bug problem is in the first place. At that point in the fuel system, what difference does it make if the bugs are dead or alive?

If one is determined to use a magnetic field to try to kill bugs in the fuel then put the field in or around the tank which is where the little critters live.
 
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You failed to understand my point. The point was not what kind of magnets are involved, it was that sometimes "scientific" explanations are negated by common sense and logic.

Thus the parallel between my ex-co-worker's determination to ignore what happened to the fuel in his car after it passed between the cow magnets and into the float bowl and how this negated the "molecule alignment" theory, and the passage of fuel through the magnetic field inside an Algae-X on it's way up the line to the engine which is not where the fuel bug problem is in the first place. At that point in the fuel system, what difference does it make if the bugs are dead or alive?

If one is determined to use a magnetic field to try to kill bugs in the fuel then put the field in or around the tank which is where the little critters live.
Actually, I was responding to your statement that your colleague said the units used cow magnets available for $.25. They aren't.

And the only reason to care if the bacteria are dead or alive is that dead bacteria don't reproduce.
 
Actually, I was responding to your statement that your colleague said the units used cow magnets available for $.25. They aren't.

.

This was back in 1980 or something. I don't know how much cow magnets cost back then. It's irrelevant. Our engineer said about a quarter. His point was that they cost a hell of lot less than the fifty bucks our colleague paid for his "fuel saving" kit.

PS-- As it seems important to you I just checked. You can buy cow magnets today for $2.95.
 
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This was back in 1980 or something. I don't know how much cow magnets cost back then. It's irrelevant. Our engineer said about a quarter. His point was that they cost a hell of lot less than the fifty bucks our colleague paid for his "fuel saving" kit.

PS-- As it seems important to you I just checked. You can buy cow magnets today for $2.95.

Good grief. The point was not an objection to the cost quotation. The objection is that they are not cow magnets. The unit may be over priced. Let's stipulate that all purchasers are being gouged. The question is do they work. Apparently some governments and some commercial vessels and little ole me have experience that they do, and if they do, they do so without resorting to cow magnets.

Now we could all be, as Capt Bill suggests, delusional and simple minded dupes. So, just to put the matter to rest, let me further stipulate that when I observed from first hand experience the resolution of a bacterial contamination problem after installation of a Debug unit that I was in my psychedelic phase and that it is entirely possible all other users of the product, both governmental and private that attest to its efficacy may be similarly delusional due to different, or perhaps similar, mental deficiencies.

Hopefully, that will put the matter to rest.

Ok?
 
The late highly competent Australian racing driver Peter Brock briefly produced modified Holden (local GM arm) cars equipped with a Polarizer involving magnets and crystals encased in resin, until Holden decided they did not share his faith in the effectiveness of the devices and ceased the association. Brock had driven extensively in motor racing for Holden`s HDT (Holden Dealer Team) with great brand loyalty, so it was a notable bust-up, especially as Brock really believed in the device.
Brock died years later in a high speed encounter with a tree during a road rally/race. He was greatly revered and mourned, but I think his Polarizer was not.
 
Greetings,
Mr. Marin. Oh ye of little faith. SOTA Magnetic Pulser Discounted Rebate - Silver Pulser - Water Ozonator - Magnetics - Bio Tuner - ZBB5 - SP5 - MP5
I direct your attention to the "Magna-Flow Magnetic Fluid Conditioner/Fuel Saver" towards the bottom of the page. Read the testimonials.
Perhaps your "testy" responses are as a result of your over exposure to EMF in which case you need use the "Protex-Ion Shield" (same page).
Oh, and don't forget to drink your magnetic water...It REALLY worked for Bob S. The Effects of Magnetic Water
 
So that would be confirmation that you have no experience with contamination occurring with such a unit, therefore your experience would be evidence they don't work. Novel approach to reality, but hey, if it works for you, go for it.

You're making assumptions. The boat that I put DeBugs on had signs of contamination in the filter elements. Not catastrophic but noticable in the filter elements. That didn't change in anyway I could see after the installation of the DeBugs.

As to your fuel getting cleaner, since the magnetic units filter nothing, your fuel is just as likely to have gotten cleaner based on the function of the filters.

If you're happy with them fine. But there is zero independent evidence that they work as advertised. And a good bit that they do nothing at all.

Just saying.
 
Carl

As the owner of the finest Trawler on the Forum, given that platform I'd suggest you may may be onto something. For those not in the know, Delfin took the fight to Rocna and won.

But, for those suggesting these magnets work in cows to collect bits of barbed wire I am unmoved. As a former cowboy I never recall packing magnets in my holster, maybe an Urban Cowboy thing. :blush:
 
RTF... ever the diplomat. ;) Interesting link, I sincerely doubt the Proton Ionizer is effective, however I did order two magnetic beauty masks. I figure if they don't work to make me purdy, I can use them for holding up seven-eleven's.
 

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Marin's point of internal filtration with Algae-X without the hoopla has merit
I had a Algea x system on my last boat & I can't say that the magnets did anything at all. I can state that it was piece of cake to filter the fuel in each take or all at once.
 
Delfin, the fact that the bacteria cleared up doesn't PROVE the system did it. It may have, it may not have.

I ate chicken soup when I had a cold, and the cold went away. Therefore chicken soup is the cure for the common cold.

There is a lot of anecdotal evidence for these miracle cures, but very little scientific evidence. And, there are rules for creating scientific evidence. A tank full of diesel in a boat is NOT a controlled scientific environment.

Did you add any fuel? Did you add anything else to the fuel? What were the ambient temperature extremes? How much was the engine run? And, in connection with that what were the tank temperature extremes?

And so on, and so forth.
 
Greetings,
Mr. CK " Having spent a lifetime in the field of Microbiological and Biomedical Sciences..." HAH! That proves nothing. Anecdotal opinions only and since you never had any success with the product you're OBVIOUSLY wrong. You weren't using the device correctly.

iwin.gif
 
"Now we could all be, as Capt Bill suggests, delusional and simple minded dupes."

Just to be clear, I never suggested you were delusional nor simple minded.

As to being duped, since I bought them once at least you are in good company. :D
 
I am surprised that this argument continues. I have previously pointed out, and will again, that since the magnetic fuel cleaners have come out, the US EPA, which rules the suppliers, has cleaned up our fuel to the point that you can no longer see any effect, if there ever was one, of such a device.
 

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