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If you do decide to get the Cummins, look up the "killer dowel pin". It's an easy fix before the install, but deadly to the engine if it goes wrong.
You'll probably want Tony Athens raw water pump uggrade too.
 
FF said:
One other thing that may be of concern are the valve springs. Those that have been compressed for 25+ years may be weak.

No problem , diesel RPM is usually too low to bother.

After operation just take a look to see if any are broken.

Now if it was a 9500 RPM Ducati ............
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I doubt if it has anything to do w rpm. The issue is thought of as constant pressure over long periods of time. But I even suspect that that may not be so either. It's probably an issue of just poor metal. Could be flex fatigue and that could be remotely related to rpm but valve lift and sitting compressed seems the accepted villein. But I don't think I heard that from engineers. Does this engine have one or two springs per valve?
 
Bob

Are the engines located in a damp seaside setting with exhaust and manifold open or by the book stored in a warmer drier setting with innards sealed off and long term storage "lubricated?"

Your persistence is to be commended, see you up North and we can yack DeFevers. Is yours FRP or wood ?
 
If you do decide to get the Cummins said:
Thanks for the heads up on that one. I wasn't planning on pulling the front cover, but I am now. Definitely a worth while fix while it is in the shop.

BTW, I did buy the engine/trans.

Bob
Click to expand...
 
Now that the engine is yours, can you tell us a little bit about its history. I ask, because I recall reading years ago that Tony Athens, the boatdiesel Cummins guru said that no NA Cummins marine 6Bs were made.

Well, maybe not so. Or maybe someone bought an industrial 6B and added the Cummins marine parts. For example does yours have a water cooled exhaust manifold? It obviously was intended for marine use with a Velvet Drive transmission but was never installed?


David
 
Are the engines located in a damp seaside setting with exhaust and manifold open or by the book stored in a warmer drier setting with innards sealed off and long term storage "lubricated?"
Click to expand...

Sunchaser; The engine is in Minnesota, so warm-cold and always damp. The seller advertise it as being pickle sealed by a Cummins serviceman, what ever that means. Pictures show that the exhaust and fuel line are plastic plugged, but nothing covering the factory air cleaner. It doesn't appear to be rusty and the seller says it has been stored all these years in his heated/dehumidified garage. He said Cummins serviced and ran the engine a short time in 1997, then sealed it up. It come with a Cummins instrument panel that shows 3/10 of an hour on the Hobbs meter. So, it's still a crap shoot, but worth the risk.

It will probably be a couple of years before I do the Alaska trip and look forward to meeting members along the way. I also follow the DeFever Cruiser Forum and there are several members from that forum to check in on. Mine is a '79 Down East 40 DeFever that came out after Jensen Marine stopped making the 40' Passagemaker. Not much in the way of structural wood in this boat, mostly fiberglass.

Bob
 
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David; I'm not about to question Tony's knowledge on anything Cummins. The engine was on eBay. I think the link will still be up, but shows that is was sold.

1987 Cummins Marine Diesel Engine | eBay

I asked the seller to send me close-up photos of the engine and transmission ID/spec tags to make sure I wasn't buying something odd. The engine tag has all the right stuff on it that I was looking for, and it has a "Customer Special Order" number stamped on it. The Velvet Drive transmission tag has the Cummins "C" logo stamped on it, indicating to me that Cummins installed the transmission. So Cummins may not have mass marketed the 6B5.9M's in 1987, but it appears they put this one together.

Bob
 
I have to say this is one of the happiest conclusions to a long and involved thread I have seen on this forum. I hope it runs well and serves you for a long time.


David
 
remwines said:
David; I'm not about to question Tony's knowledge on anything Cummins. Bob
Click to expand...

Cummins indeed made marine 5.9 NAs. Seen several dating back to the 90s. They were a favorite for standby fire water pumps too. Also boatdiesel's engine website shows the "old model" NA engine rated 115 HP at 2500 RPM.

But, I don't believe the 6B NAs are part of the reman program.
 
Cummins was pushing the 6bt onto the marine market a lot back then. The pair I have were installed sometime in the early to mid 90's. I wasn't involved with the boat then but I've heard the stories. Our boat was a type of test bed for Cummins engines, and were installed with direct Cummins support/supervision. Story goes the first set didn't work out right and were pulled out. Changes made and a second set installed. By the time I got involved they were up in the 9-10,000 hr range. At 14,000 now. Not bad for a truck engine, lol. They burn a little oil, they leak a little oil, but.....
1800 RPM = 60 MPH
14,000 hrs X 60 MPH = 840,000 miles (approx equiv)
 
Okeydokey, the engine and trans should be here next week. Then I can hopefully sigh in relief. It will need a riser and possibly different engine mounts. I'll figure all that out after it gets here and I can start measuring it against the boat.

Thanks to all for the help and input. I know this will make for a happier boat and captain.

Bob
 
djmarchand said:
Now that the engine is yours, can you tell us a little bit about its history. I ask, because I recall reading years ago that Tony Athens, the boatdiesel Cummins guru said that no NA Cummins marine 6Bs were made.
Click to expand...
They were put is some of the last Willard 40s, I believe as a stock engine.

Ted
 
Sounds like a good deal, but I would change the oil before operation , and again at 5-10 hours of operation.

After that , follow Da Book.
 
The freight company requires all fluids be drained, so seller retained the oils and coolant to use in something else. The engine is being shipped later today.

I spoke to the original purchaser of the engine. He is an elderly man who had his grandson sell it for him on eBay. The old fella had a heavy equipment company outside of Minneapolis that also used barges. He said in 1987, he got talked into buying this new Cummins engine design with transmission to change out an old barge engine. This engine sat in their shop for many years and never installed. He said they were using all Cat engines, so the engine just sat there. In 1997, he took the engine to a Cummins shop where it was serviced, ran and sealed for long term storage. So it has been sitting in his home garage since.

I feel pretty comfortable with this deal. I have about 1/3 the cost of a Recon engine and new transmission into it at this point, so there is plenty of room for fixing issues and making it reliable.

FF: Sorry, what's a Da book? I am certain this engine will not come with an operator's manual, so I planned on picking up what I can from BoatDiesel and other sources.

Bob
 
Da Book is the BIG maint and rebuild manual.

Usually $75 to $125 depending.

The Operators manual is like People Magazine , the real maint manual like the Economist for current events. .

Even if you cant turn a screwdriver the gent that comes to repair your baby will be delighted to see Da Book.

IF you are a DIY person Da Book will have all the hard to find stuff , how do you put the engine to storage for 6 months? as well as timing the injector system or replacing camshaft bearings..,

Think of it as the best motor insurance you can have.
 
FF; I ran searches several ways and didn't find the Da Book. If you can tell me the authors name, I will find it.

My brother was a diesel truck mechanic, mostly Cummins, but he passed away 20 years ago. I inherited his tools and diesel manuals, but no Cummins manuals. The shop he worked in must have had their own Cummins library.

Bob
 
Bob ... a hint.

His initials are FF.

He means use the shop manual.
 
Got it. Duh:facepalm:
 
For questions about Cummins motors, check out an app called "QuickServe Mobile". Input a Cummins serial number and see the build sheet and lots of info about the engine in question.
 
Bob

As we follow your interesting journey a question that I probably missed -- is the engine set up for keel cooling and or dry stack or equipped for raw water cooling via an on engine heat exchanger and shower head?
 
Every engine Mfg has a different name for the " big shop service manual" that can usually be ordered / purchased at the parts counter of that brand.

Some will take months to show up.

Purchase it from the base engine mfg on marinizations .

The term ,"Da Book," covers any of the brands service book, what ever they chose to call it.

If you don't have it , sounds like a great present for the boat , or the boats captain.

Prepare for sticker shock!
 
On that basically new, old stock motor, I'd do a quick, short oil change and valve adjust as things seat and wear in.
I'd also do a strong cooling system clean & flush before installing your long term coolant.

My routine is pretty similar on all my engines, taken from the hour meter. Once you've done this a few times it's easy to look at the meter and know exactly how long before and after any service and what to prepare for.

At any 250 hr interval - Oil & filter

At any 500 hr interval - minor service, includes oil, filter, fuel filter, pull end caps from heat exch and inspect, usually need zincs (varies by boat) etc

At 750, (multiple of 250) Oil & filter

At 1000 hr - full service, oil & filter, fuel filter, ht exch & zincs, inspect/change raw water impeller, etc etc.

Once you've done the routine a few times you'll get a feel for what variables work better in your situation.

The Cummins seem to like to have the injectors changed around 1200-1500 hrs, so maybe time your valve adj to match etc.

And now's the time to get into your oil sampling and reports.

Just me, YMMV.
 
bcam said:
For questions about Cummins motors, check out an app called "QuickServe Mobile". Input a Cummins serial number and see the build sheet and lots of info about the engine in question.
Click to expand...

Thanks bcam. I registered with QuickServe Online several days ago, but did not know about this app. I installed it on the iPad that goes with me to the boat. What a relief it is to know that I can quickly and easily get any part for my propulsion engine. The only things I knew I could get for the old Ford/Iveco engine were the starter, alternator, pump impeller and filters. Anything else was a crap shoot from TAD or scavenging through heavy equipment salvage yards.

Bob
 
Bob,
What other engines did you come across while you were looking that you did't consider worth mentioning? My engine search was very interesting. Had a good time looking. Some people like things decided and some like to keep things open. I'm in the latter group. This tendency applies to all we do.
 
sunchaser said:
Bob

As we follow your interesting journey a question that I probably missed -- is the engine set up for keel cooling and or dry stack or equipped for raw water cooling via an on engine heat exchanger and shower head?
Click to expand...

It is raw water cooled with pump on Port side. Old engine's raw water pump and the seacock are starboard, so I will have to plumb it across. It has the jacketed exhaust manifold, but I will have to come up with the appropriate riser. It has the long narrow heat exchanger that is mounted parallel with the exhaust manifold.
 
manyboats said:
Bob,
What other engines did you come across while you were looking that you did't consider worth mentioning? My engine search was very interesting. Had a good time looking. Some people like things decided and some like to keep things open. I'm in the latter group. This tendency applies to all we do.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I fully understand what you are asking. and I sure don't want to offend anyone by identifying their favorite engine as unsuitable for this application. But this kind of sums up why I choose this Cummins: I am not hung up on labels. Right now I have diesel engines in cars, truck, tractors and boats with Cummins, Ford/Iveco, Yanmar, IH, VW, VM, Volvo, MB and Iseki. My current Ford/Iveco marine engine runs fine, but I do not have enough confidence in it for a trip from the SF Bay to Alaska. So based on broad product support and parts availability in the West and PNW, and opinions from many from this thread, I had a lot of good choices. Cummins for me was on top.

I grew up in a Richfield Station (Atlantic on the right coast) and have been bending wrenches and fabricating most my life. Was part of a Super Stock drag team in the 70's and worked for Hooker Headers in the 70' and 80's starting in the Deign Shop. Today in retirement, as a hobby I have a full shop where I do my own hotrod/car restoration projects and work on my vehicles, tractors and boats. I am a DIY person. Deciding on the 6B for the boat was probably the same reason why most project hotrods are built with Small Block Chevys. They are common, most all mechanics know them, can get parts anywhere that I am going, there are many forums dedicated to them, and sensible upgrades and modifications are well documented. And like a small block Chevy in a hotrod, there is nothing I can't buy or fabricate for the 6B to make it suit the boat. I have had boats most of my life, but I am still relatively new to bigger diesel boats. This engine seemed to be the simplest, basic, no brainer to start with. I will be there when the old engine comes out and when the new one goes in. I will have the boatyard set and align the engine and trans, but I plan to plumb and wire it.

Again, thanks to all for helping me get to this point. I look forward to your responses to questions as I'm working through the repower.

Bob
 
Bob,
I was just wondering what engines did,nt quite make it to the table for evaluation. Perhaps there was some uncovered interesting engines that would make interesting conversation. That's our mission here .. conversation.
VERY interesting about your history and shop. Glad you shared.

Donson,
Is the Perky a 4 or 6?
 
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manyboats; I was just wondering what engines did said:
Hi Eric

There's so many great engines I could have considered, but I automatically excluded anything that was not in current production in some form. Then I excluded electronic/computer controlled engines, so that narrowed the choices down to a handful. I liked some of the engine packages and options that the guys in your area and Beta are putting together. But in the end, I have a 5.9 Dodge Cummins PU that has performed flawlessly for me for 12 years, so that made the final choice pretty easy. Not very interesting I know, but that's how it went. I'll be enjoying that 6B for the rest of my life.

Bob
Click to expand...
 
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