BruceK
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If you want to monitor 2 channels, why not use the "dual watch" facility most VHFs offer?
A second radio for the helm
- Thread starter JDCAVE
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Bay Pelican
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That would work if the radio traffic were light. However it is not and there are times 68 is busy for 10 minutes at a time with chatter.
Actually, my situation is that I used to have a second radio uninstalled on board as a spare. Figured might as well install it and using a splitter with the upper helm radio I now have two at the helm.
The third reason is an odd ball. My backup emergency battery is under the helm, well above the waterline. The second VHF mounted at the helm uses that battery. The theory is that if the boat is taking on water the batteries will be shorted fairly quickly, but the backup radio will be operable for quite a while.
Actually, my situation is that I used to have a second radio uninstalled on board as a spare. Figured might as well install it and using a splitter with the upper helm radio I now have two at the helm.
The third reason is an odd ball. My backup emergency battery is under the helm, well above the waterline. The second VHF mounted at the helm uses that battery. The theory is that if the boat is taking on water the batteries will be shorted fairly quickly, but the backup radio will be operable for quite a while.
BruceK
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Makes good sense. We carry a portable VHF with battery, for back up, and "ship to shore/dinghy". It has a housing bracket, the best place to locate it was, at the helm.
ranger58sb
Guru
Yes, our routine is to monitor 16 and 13 and a WX alert channel on one radio, our local calling channel (9) and a different WX alert channel on the other radio. Modified as necessary...
psneeld
Guru
Using any features of a radio is just practice and practicality. What works for some, doesn't for others and even depends on local and traffic sometimes.
The whole system of communicating is predicated on one conversation at a time...so everything else is just gravy like AIS info, etc....
The whole system of communicating is predicated on one conversation at a time...so everything else is just gravy like AIS info, etc....
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Really great advice on this thread! Like others here, I have 2 fixed mounts and a HH. The FB Icom M422 is equipped with a CommandMic that is available at the lower helm. The lower helm Standard Horizon VHF came with the boat when I bought her and is starting to show its age with a weak receiver. I plan to replace it with an Icom 506 with AIS when the budget allows. I agree that having identical or similar radios can alleviate the 'finger confusion' that can occur when moving from radio to radio. Both fixed mount radios have their own dedicated high quality antenna...Shakespeare Galaxy.
I'm also a big proponent of remote speakers. My SH always had a remote speaker and I installed one at the FB when I installed the Icom. Since I seldom drive from the FB anymore, I moved the FB speaker down to the lower helm. I quickly learned that the CommandMic can control the volume at its own built-in speaker, but not the main radio or remote speaker. I needed to install a volume switch at the lower helm to control the remote speaker volume. Now that it's installed, all is well. The clarity of the received transmissions is so much better that I would never go back to the radio speaker.
I use my HH as a 3rd radio when cruising with friends. It monitors the VTS channel while the other VHFs are used for friend coordination and CH16 monitoring. If I'll be speaking to VTS, I normally switch them to one of the VHFs for better receiver clarity and transmitter power.
My radio antennae are separated by the width of my FB, roughly 9-10 ft. When I transmit on one radio, the other radio can pick up the transmitted signal on a nearby channel due to antenna proximity. The greater the frequency separation, the less of a problem. This is why it's important to keep the antennae well spaced. If you plan to use one antenna with two radios, you have a redundant system that is vulnerable to a single point of failure.
The same can be said for an electrical failure. I have both radios wired to the same bus for power, so I'm vulnerable there, but I have the HH for backup. I operate in the relatively protected waters of the SF Bay and CA Delta, so radio range is typically not an issue. If it was, I'd consider an external antenna connection for the HH radio.
I agree with what others have said about scan features. When the frequencies get busy, the scan causes dropped or missed calls that might be intended for me. So I find myself regularly switching the feature on and off as the frequency congestion varies.
I'm also a big proponent of remote speakers. My SH always had a remote speaker and I installed one at the FB when I installed the Icom. Since I seldom drive from the FB anymore, I moved the FB speaker down to the lower helm. I quickly learned that the CommandMic can control the volume at its own built-in speaker, but not the main radio or remote speaker. I needed to install a volume switch at the lower helm to control the remote speaker volume. Now that it's installed, all is well. The clarity of the received transmissions is so much better that I would never go back to the radio speaker.
I use my HH as a 3rd radio when cruising with friends. It monitors the VTS channel while the other VHFs are used for friend coordination and CH16 monitoring. If I'll be speaking to VTS, I normally switch them to one of the VHFs for better receiver clarity and transmitter power.
My radio antennae are separated by the width of my FB, roughly 9-10 ft. When I transmit on one radio, the other radio can pick up the transmitted signal on a nearby channel due to antenna proximity. The greater the frequency separation, the less of a problem. This is why it's important to keep the antennae well spaced. If you plan to use one antenna with two radios, you have a redundant system that is vulnerable to a single point of failure.
The same can be said for an electrical failure. I have both radios wired to the same bus for power, so I'm vulnerable there, but I have the HH for backup. I operate in the relatively protected waters of the SF Bay and CA Delta, so radio range is typically not an issue. If it was, I'd consider an external antenna connection for the HH radio.
I agree with what others have said about scan features. When the frequencies get busy, the scan causes dropped or missed calls that might be intended for me. So I find myself regularly switching the feature on and off as the frequency congestion varies.
When we bought our PNW cabin cruiser it had a VHF at each helm station. The antenna leads from the radios went to a selector switch that connected one or the other radio to the antenna. Very Bad Idea.
We replaced both of the radios with new Icom units and added a second antenna and got rid of the selector switch. The lower radio is connected to a 24 foot antenna, the upper one to an 8 foot antenna.
When we bought the second antenna the owner of the marine elecronics store we used said the main concern about antenna separation was not to have the two antennas a specific distance or multiples of that distance apart to eliminate the possibility of signal blanking or weakening. It's been many years now since we did this but I seem to recall the distance was 17 inches. If this is correct, that means the antennas should not be 17, 34, 51, etc. inches apart.
I can't remember without measuring the distance between our antennas but they are quite close together, in the neighborhood of three feet. We've never experienced problems with reception or transmission with either radio.
If mounting a second antenna I would recommend checking antenna spacing with a credible source in the industry; don't act on what I've written without confirmng it first.
We have a very nice Furuno Loran-C unit in the insrument console at our lower helm. We used to use it as the backup to the first GPS plotter we put on the boat in 1998. Of course Loran has long since been shut down so we've been debating what to put in its place in the console. The contenders are a second radio for the lower helm, an AIS unit, or a wind speed/direction indicator.
We have a good Icom radio in the console already with programmable scanning, dual and tri watch and MMSI. We almost never communicate on VHF, just with a specific boat that we occasionally cruise with and with VTS when the visibility is poor. Every now and then we'll have need to talk to a ferry or other commercial vessel in or approaching a narrow pass or channel but it's extremely rare. So we're not sure what a second VHS at the lower helm would buy us.
We have a good Icom handheld with an adaptor that lets it be plugged into the lead for the 24' antenna, so we have a backup should the built-in radio fail.
AIS we see no use for whatsoever in these waters other than having another distracting toy to play with. We've never been in a situation, even in heavy fog, where it would have given us information we actually needed, so we've pretty much ruled that out.
The wind indicator could be useful, or at least interesting. Wind is what it is, but it always sounds and acts faster than it really is so knowing the actual speed could be reassuring at tines. Or not. Plus we have a good handheld windspeed indicator if we really want to know.
I can see if one used a VHF a lot a second radio at the helm could be very helpful. Or if one operated in very busy waters-- Vancouver, BC and vicinity could be a good example in this area-- a second radio could eliminate the problem of a scanning radio missing something one wanted to hear.
We replaced both of the radios with new Icom units and added a second antenna and got rid of the selector switch. The lower radio is connected to a 24 foot antenna, the upper one to an 8 foot antenna.
When we bought the second antenna the owner of the marine elecronics store we used said the main concern about antenna separation was not to have the two antennas a specific distance or multiples of that distance apart to eliminate the possibility of signal blanking or weakening. It's been many years now since we did this but I seem to recall the distance was 17 inches. If this is correct, that means the antennas should not be 17, 34, 51, etc. inches apart.
I can't remember without measuring the distance between our antennas but they are quite close together, in the neighborhood of three feet. We've never experienced problems with reception or transmission with either radio.
If mounting a second antenna I would recommend checking antenna spacing with a credible source in the industry; don't act on what I've written without confirmng it first.
We have a very nice Furuno Loran-C unit in the insrument console at our lower helm. We used to use it as the backup to the first GPS plotter we put on the boat in 1998. Of course Loran has long since been shut down so we've been debating what to put in its place in the console. The contenders are a second radio for the lower helm, an AIS unit, or a wind speed/direction indicator.
We have a good Icom radio in the console already with programmable scanning, dual and tri watch and MMSI. We almost never communicate on VHF, just with a specific boat that we occasionally cruise with and with VTS when the visibility is poor. Every now and then we'll have need to talk to a ferry or other commercial vessel in or approaching a narrow pass or channel but it's extremely rare. So we're not sure what a second VHS at the lower helm would buy us.
We have a good Icom handheld with an adaptor that lets it be plugged into the lead for the 24' antenna, so we have a backup should the built-in radio fail.
AIS we see no use for whatsoever in these waters other than having another distracting toy to play with. We've never been in a situation, even in heavy fog, where it would have given us information we actually needed, so we've pretty much ruled that out.
The wind indicator could be useful, or at least interesting. Wind is what it is, but it always sounds and acts faster than it really is so knowing the actual speed could be reassuring at tines. Or not. Plus we have a good handheld windspeed indicator if we really want to know.
I can see if one used a VHF a lot a second radio at the helm could be very helpful. Or if one operated in very busy waters-- Vancouver, BC and vicinity could be a good example in this area-- a second radio could eliminate the problem of a scanning radio missing something one wanted to hear.
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twistedtree
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As I understand DSC, the only part of your communications that is somewhat private is the hailing process. Once you start talking, you are on an open channel just like any other communications. So anyone listening to your working channel, or switching to it after picking it up on a scanner, will hear all about your dinner plans.
Bay Pelican
Moderator Emeritus
I believe that is the case, security is added by the fact the bad guys don't know who we are and second I am assuming they are very lazy and just camp on 68 (our social channel) rather than 06 or whatever channel DSC switches us.
Conrad
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Blue Sky came with an older Icom VHF which, while non-DSC, works fine. But given that it is quite elderly we felt that we should add a second radio, and while we were at it get the benefit of DSC, if only for emergency calling.
We upgraded to a Standard Horizon GX 1700 c/w separate antenna, and are happy with it, although the older Icom seems to have better sound quality.
The rational for that model was that it has its own GPS antenna built in, so that if the plotter and its GPS failed we would still have GPS positioning available in the event of something nasty happening. And yes, we also follow our tracking via paper charts....
We upgraded to a Standard Horizon GX 1700 c/w separate antenna, and are happy with it, although the older Icom seems to have better sound quality.
The rational for that model was that it has its own GPS antenna built in, so that if the plotter and its GPS failed we would still have GPS positioning available in the event of something nasty happening. And yes, we also follow our tracking via paper charts....
"AIS we see no use for whatsoever in these waters other than having another distracting toy to play with. We've never been in a situation, : even in heavy fog, where it would have given us information we actually needed, so we've pretty much ruled that out.
Marin"
I frequently cross between Vancouver and the Gulf Islands. I usually keep my VHF on a dual scan of 16 and VTS, which is 12 in Vancouver and 11 across the gulf. In the busy season from the end of June to early September, The problems of 16 getting too busy for this regime, are just starting. The rest of the year, 16 is dead, so 95% of the traffic is on the VTS channel.
I disagree with Marin's assessment of the usefulness of AIS, so that if I buy another radio it will have AIS. That is if I haven't already put in a proper AIS-B before then. I presently use "boatbeacon" on my phone. When I am crossing the Gulf or transiting Active Pass, it will tell me the name of the oncoming Ferry, or whether the oncoming freighter needs to be avoided, all long before that vessel is near enough for evasive measures to be visually obviously required. I use the App to make course decisions on a regular and frequent basis, so having that feature in a VHF radio would indeed be welcome.
I presently use a SH fixed mount at the lower helm and its RAM at the upper helm. There is a remote speaker at the upper helm as well. I don't see a present need for a second radio, but as these waters get busier, that will change.
Marin"
I frequently cross between Vancouver and the Gulf Islands. I usually keep my VHF on a dual scan of 16 and VTS, which is 12 in Vancouver and 11 across the gulf. In the busy season from the end of June to early September, The problems of 16 getting too busy for this regime, are just starting. The rest of the year, 16 is dead, so 95% of the traffic is on the VTS channel.
I disagree with Marin's assessment of the usefulness of AIS, so that if I buy another radio it will have AIS. That is if I haven't already put in a proper AIS-B before then. I presently use "boatbeacon" on my phone. When I am crossing the Gulf or transiting Active Pass, it will tell me the name of the oncoming Ferry, or whether the oncoming freighter needs to be avoided, all long before that vessel is near enough for evasive measures to be visually obviously required. I use the App to make course decisions on a regular and frequent basis, so having that feature in a VHF radio would indeed be welcome.
I presently use a SH fixed mount at the lower helm and its RAM at the upper helm. There is a remote speaker at the upper helm as well. I don't see a present need for a second radio, but as these waters get busier, that will change.
markpierce
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About 20 percent of the time, we hear someone calling out for a radio check on channel 16. Usually someone responds they did a "dirty deed." Why they couldn't call a marina or whoever to confirm the radio works? Or maybe call a bridge tender to "brighten" his day?
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JDCAVE
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In Canada the correct approach is to contact coast guard on a working-channel, usually 83A to request a radio check. CG is fine with that.
Jim
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Rivertrader
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I also use a M604 as the primary because it has a stronger speaker than most other radios. On my secondary radio I also have a small U size AGM battery which is mounted above the bilge line and a separate gps connected to it and the same MMSI programed in it.
John
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JDCAVE
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The following units are on sale at the Vancouver boat show: Icom M324 with GPS is $240 and the unit without is $195. The Standard Horizon GX1300 $175 and GX1700 with GPS is $276. All prices in Cdn funds. I'm leaning towards the Icom units.
Is there an advantage to having GPS on these units if you already have several GPS receivers on the boat? How hard is it for the newbie electronics guy to connect GPS with NMEA 183?
Jim
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Is there an advantage to having GPS on these units if you already have several GPS receivers on the boat? How hard is it for the newbie electronics guy to connect GPS with NMEA 183?
Jim
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River Cruiser
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I found it to be pretty easy to make the NMEA 0183 connections, I solder and heat shrink.
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Tolly Roger
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Can the iCom unit with built in GPS read the satellites if it's mounted in the pilot house or does it need to be "open to the sky"?
Maybe better to get the non-gps unit and hook it up to your chartplotter.
As stated it's straight forward (and I agree with the terminal strips.)
Maybe better to get the non-gps unit and hook it up to your chartplotter.
As stated it's straight forward (and I agree with the terminal strips.)
stubones99
Guru
Why not use SeaTow's automated radio check?
Automated Radio Check Service uses one of VHF Channels 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 84. Simply tune your radio to the proper channel for your community.
Conduct a radio check as you normally would.
Upon releasing the mic, the system will replay your transmission, letting you hear how you sound.
https://www.seatow.com/tools-and-education/automated-radio-check
If you're out of range, how do you know if you're out of range or your radio is broken
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AFAIK, we don't have that service out here on the Left Coast. We have Vessel Assist, not SeaTow.
C lectric
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I have the S.H. GX1700 with built in GPS rather than the Icom. However, I believe your considered VHF should also be able to be fitted with an external GPS antenna or be connected through NMEA to an existing GPS if you have one.
My S.H. is mounted inside my salon at my steering station so it has the cabin structure AND an aluminum tank right overhead. As far as I can tell the radio has NO trouble figuring out where we are.
Ask about the external antenna just in case but I'll hazard that your VHF will work just fine inside without the external antenna.
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