Is it difficult to sell a wood Grand Banks?

FF said:

Believe me , if you had a 60 ft Trumhpy , you purchased supplys , but never cleaned (or used) a varnish or paint brush, ever.

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If you had the wherewithal to buy a Trumpy of course you'd have help to do the maintenance. Just like if you had the funds to buy a McMansion on the beach you'll have helpers (pool boy, lawn maintenance, cleaning ladies, etc.) and possibly a chauffeur to drive the kidlets to school.

Trumpys were not bought by folks living on a financial edge. Ditto the old Hatts, Burgers.

I suspect most 60'ers and up have crew quarters in their design. Someone is taking care of the boat and the owners when they are aboard.

The owner might do things aboard because he gets pleasure from solving a problem. Changing the oil? Not likely. There are jobs worth hiring out and I suspect as the available funds increase the likelihood of work being contracted out.

janice142 said:

I suspect most 60'ers and up have crew quarters in their design.

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Although today's brokers refer to it as a "guest cabin" the original promo material for the 53' Hatteras referred to the "up down" in the bow forward of the galley as the crew quarters.

I bought an old wood 33 footer in 1990 for 9k in my mid 20's. Owned it five years and had a blast with it. Did minimal maintenance, but did not let it slide downhill too much. And ran it A LOT. Sold it for 5k. No issues at all with it being a woodie. 1k per year depreciation. Maintenance, dockage, fuel, pretty cheap. Insurance?? WTF is that??? Hey, I was in my 20's!!!

In todays dollars, not far from what OP is looking at.

Funny thing is some dude called me up a month ago and asked me about the engines on my long gone boat. It is still in one piece and he needed advice on getting the injector pump rack unstuck on one of the old Mercedes OM352's. Blew my socks off hearing that thing was still around. Called me the next day and said both engines were running fine. He intends to fix the boat up. Wow.

manyboats said:

Prolly not too hard if you sell it really really really cheap.

There's two attractive wood boats for sale on our float. A 32GB for $24 and a 37 Chris w twin yanmars for $19. The Chris was $29. They may both be good boats.

If I was in the market for a boat I would consider either of these but the'd have to pass a very through survey and be cheap .. like these. I'm betting the GB could be had for less. Here's the Chris.

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Eric - Pretty ol' Chris. 1940's???

Some here are fond of saying that posters don't know anything and just repost dock talk. Remember that folks here are representative of the market for boats in general so their collective opinion, even if wrong, represents what a wood boat seller faces.


IMO if you don't know the terms scarfing, refastening, sistering, rib, caulking iron, and many others and how to do them or have an open wallet wood is not for you.

Few years ago I was offered a 42' GB woody For Free by the executor of a will. First it was $20K... then $5K... then Free - to me; because it was his dad's and the family wanted it to survive. It was afloat at a very up-town Yacht Club. Reasons: Family tried to sell it on CL for a while. Then executor learned of my capabilities for way back decades of owning and working on wood boats. When he used the "free" word, I simply had to take a really good look at it, although I did not want a wood boat at the time.


Results: (I performed a several hour survey of my own on the GB)


- Fuel tank leaks (seeps)
- Teak deck screw plugs missing / calking shrunk or missing / warped deck areas
- Leaks on interior celings of all three cabins... from teak decks. Soma soft spots and black mold
- Bow stem rot
- Transom corner rot
- Need for much electrical redoing
- Bottom had never been refastened


There were some good points too... but not enough for me a years ago expert for working on wood boats to accept it even for free.


Before you purchase make sure you have a real good surveyoy review it first. And, then, be ready for a lot of annual work... with much work for the first year or two.


Good Luck! - Art


-

Art re your post 34.

1937.
Who says wood boats don't last?

bayview said:

IMO if you don't know the terms scarfing, refastening, sistering, rib, caulking iron, and many others and how to do them or have an open wallet wood is not for you.

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I'm having recurring nightmares just recalling these words!

By far the wood working is the most labor, knowledge and experience dependent aspect of yacht repair. To a lesser degree the actual wood used for repairs is problematic just to find straight grain, unchecked, non kiln dried lumber to use for repairs. The average boat owner is blissfully unaware of these details. And a person who is contemplating buying an 'old woody' will get a $eriou$ wake up call when hull planks, ribs or deadwood needs replacing.

Personally, I use the figure of $1,000 a foot for average end of life value of a boat. If the boat is going for LESS than 1,000 a ft then there are deficiencies that need repair. If the boat is over 1,000 a ft then it has had some of the deficiencies addressed.

What gets tricky is when the defects are hidden. Finding a boat that has been 'brought up to maintenance for its age' effects the price. But getting an owner to objectively realize where their vessel is on the scale is the trick. Owners usually think their boat is gold. The OP seems to want a boat for pennies with no realization of 'why' the boat is priced so low.

bayview said:

IMO if you don't know the terms scarfing, refastening, sistering, rib, caulking iron, and many others and how to do them or have an open wallet wood is not for you.

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Actually, a caulking iron is called a 'Making Iron' by the pros...

Stu

My shipwright sold his GB woodie and broke even with his costs but not his time. He considers himself lucky. My SW works on many of the local wooden commercial boats. I'd consider him a local expert. The advice here about getting a good surveyor is important but I'd add a good Shipwright to be involved with the survey inspection. A SW will give you a professional opinion on what is involved in the repairs and there WILL BE repairs. My SW says there is always THE WORST plank that needs attention on a wood boat.

I hope they're real hard to sell cause I'm looking at one .

I'm sure on your side Marty but buy'in a wood boat that big still scares me.
The very best of luck to you Marty.

Thanks Eric but don't worry to much . I have to sell William first and I'm not being very aggressive at that . Everything has to line up in our favor for us to make this kind of move . We are kinda dock hounds with our spare time right now with only short trips because I'm still working and two weeks vacation a year doesn't get you very far . I would like to stay on the boat more during the week while working and would like some more comfort . Leaving for work from the boat has a whole different feel than leaving from the house .

manyboats said:

Art re your post 34.

1937.
Who says wood boats don't last?

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Not me Eric!

Nearly any well built boat... wood / FRP / steel / aluminum... will last for a long time if carefully tended to. Problem with any boat being cared for is to know how to care for it. I would play hell trying to care for a steel or aluminum boat - although being a good "mechanic" in general - I would soon learn how to care for the metal boat. For FRP or wood boats, taking care of them is a slam dunk for me due to my boat background. That said, there is always more to learn as well as new products to use.

My caution to the OP regarding purchase of a wood GB is simply that carrying for wood is what I feel is the boating maintenance/repair endeavor most filled with trade secret requirements. But, once a person has strong handle on a good range of marine-woodworking requirements... then wood boats are a relatively easy way to go.

It's generally difficult to sell any boat of substantial value. Some boats one can't even be given away. On a highly-desirable-because-it's-a-well-maintained boat, I speculate one might not recover five to ten years of professionally/hired maintenance.

I worked in a boat yard back in the early 1970's. We had lots of wood boats back then to work on. I did my share of feeding cotton caulk in the seams. Even the best cared for wood boat can have a seem open up without warning. If you own a wood boat you need to visit the boat a lot more often then a glass boat just to check the bilge and battery.

jwilsail said:

I worked in a boat yard back in the early 1970's. We had lots of wood boats back then to work on. I did my share of feeding cotton caulk in the seams. Even the best cared for wood boat can have a seem open up without warning. If you own a wood boat you need to visit the boat a lot more often then a glass boat just to check the bilge and battery.

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So very true!

At least with a wood boat the last owner can easily dispose of them. Not so with FRP. Heck, even Fe and Al boats attract scrap value attention.

But, before the final solution arrives a well tended wood boat in the hands of the right owner is a lot of fun. I am not that owner anymore.

sunchaser said:

At least with a wood boat the last owner can easily dispose of them. Not so with FRP. Heck, even Fe and Al boats attract scrap value attention.

But, before the final solution arrives a well tended wood boat in the hands of the right owner is a lot of fun. I am not that owner anymore.

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Hi sunchaser

Can you define easily for me... regarding your mention of "At least with a wood boat the last owner can easily dispose of them."?? You speaking about resale at bargain price - down to "free" - so some poor soul takes the boat over. Or, are you meaning total disassembly? Maybe smaller (15' to 25') woodies can be dismantled relatively easily and inexpensively; bigger wood boats get expensive to dispose of. That said: I believe that large[r] FRP boats are the biggest expense and a real bear to get rid of the waste pieces once their time of a boat's-usefulness has passed.

I've watched several "use-times-up" wood boats (30' to 50' +) being dismantled by chain saw at yards. Cost was fairly high (multi thousands) for labor to dismantle as well as dump fees for final disposal. But, at least the wood is organic and will eventually reestablish itself into the natural order of ecology.

Another difficult item regarding wood boat disposal is cost for just lifting out of water... these days many yards do NOT like to put crumbling wood boats into/onto their sling lifts. RR track full support affairs work well in that instance for soon to be accomplished dismantling.

Also, as caution to wood boat owner: These days many yards also do not like to even haul a wood boat for general bottom work and charge a premium for the haul as well as large deposit just incase the owner decides to walk away... leaving the wood boat to rot in their yard; for them to dismantle and dispose of.

Also, as caution to wood boat owner: These days many yards also do not like to even haul a wood boat for general bottom work and charge a premium for the haul as well as large deposit just incase the owner decides to walk away... leaving the wood boat to rot in their yard; for them to dismantle and dispose of.

Here in the PNW that is not true.

Art said:

So very true!

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Art you ever seen it happen?
Fear is easily propagated.


I disposed of a wood boat once. It was easy. But it was hard emoyionally as I designed and built it. 28' plywood.

Bob Cofer said:

Also, as caution to wood boat owner: These days many yards also do not like to even haul a wood boat for general bottom work and charge a premium for the haul as well as large deposit just incase the owner decides to walk away... leaving the wood boat to rot in their yard; for them to dismantle and dispose of.

Here in the PNW that is not true.

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Probably not true in Maine either. Is true of some yards here in SF Bay Area. Perhaps my using the word "many" in paragraph above was a bit over the top! Sorry... should have said some of the yards I know!

That said - I do know that many yacht harbors in this area do not like to have wood boats become slip users and that quite a few will refuse to take in wood boats as newly acquired slip renters.

Clearly seems to me that wooden-hull structured boats are largely becoming a thang o' da past! That is unfortunate, as there were and still are a lot of finely crafted wood boats in existance; beauties to be sure!

Art said:

Also, as caution to wood boat owner: These days many yards also do not like to even haul a wood boat for general bottom work and charge a premium for the haul as well as large deposit just in case the owner decides to walk away... leaving the wood boat to rot in their yard; for them to dismantle and dispose of.

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Definitely not true in this part of Maine. The yard I use has more wood than fiberglass boats. They have no trouble hauling my 80 year old woody. They also have a few "dead" woodies in the back of the yard. They dispose of one or two each year. These are 30-50 foot boats. The tear apart generally takes only a couple of hours with half of that time spent on getting the mechanicals (engine, trans, tanks) out. They use their excavator to break the boats up and load the pieces directly into a dump truck. Locally, wood can be disposed of for about $50 a ton.

manyboats said:

Art you ever seen it happen?
Fear is easily propagated.


I disposed of a wood boat once. It was easy. But it was hard emoyionally as I designed and built it. 28' plywood.

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Heck Yes! - Eric - In regard to " Art you ever seen it happen?" referring to my post # 47.

Back in the day (1960's / 70's) when I worked in New England boat yards, bottom-seam re calking was an often needed task before re-launch in spring. A good time to re calk is after winter on the hard as planks have dried and shrunk so there is room to clean out old calk and pound in new. Many a time I've seen boats floundering in their slip due to leaks in bottom calking. Back then we used a white fabric, blunt metal-chisel type affair with oak stem, and wooden plug hammer (mallet) whose face was wrapped in leather to pound in the new calk. Some of the bottom-to-keel areas were wrapped with tar and lead sheeting... then fastened into place over the tar with very close proximity copper or SS nails. Each time a wood boat was launched on sling lift the slings were left under the boat for hour or more (sometimes over night) with bilge pumps often going - until its bottom planks had swelled sufficiently to stop water from actually pouring in. After water ingress through seems had lowered then it usually took a day or longer for the planks to fully swell and hopefully stop all bottom leaks. A close watch on waterline proximities was carefully continued by us working at the yard. Often the wood boats newly launched did not return to their rented slip for days and stayed in slips near the sling lift launch site so "water line" observation was easy to accomplish. Plywood you speak of had little problems that way.

Thanks Art!

Bob Cofer said:

Thanks Art!

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YW - Bob!

And, You are SOOOOO Correct

"Flybridges free the soul."

One of the big problems w caulked seams is that it took/takes considerable skill to pay the caulking propperly.
1. Selecting the right caulk (mostly cotton or oakum)
2. Selecting the right caulking irons (size)
3. Most importantly how hard to drive the caulking into the seams.

The seams were/are not extreemely uniform in width. More caulking into seam? Too much caulking or/and too much pressure may cause the seam to each side to never get tight. Different kinds of wood swell at different rates and to greater or lesser extents. Drive the caulking in too hard the boat breaks apart when it swells up .. lots of pressure. So many variables. Yachties covered the cotton or oakum w seam coumpound. Most used "white lead" and the fishermen in the PNW used concrete. It's so inflexable that seemed crazy to me but was very common. It's almost hard to imagine anyone getting it right and now very few know how to do it. It's more of an art and less a science. Mostly skill but lots of knowledge too.

I've never heard of seams opening up suddenly and sinking (as implied or stated in post #46) a boat but the elements that would bring it about are sure there.

On a carvel planked hull how are the butt joints dealt with? Are they gapped a little to allow for cotton caulking and seam compound . Are the planks beveled also on the edges to allow for caulking . Keeping the water out of the end grain seems more of a problem to me .

Had two larger wood boats in the family. After being on the hard for a few days it was about an 8 hour period to have them reseal once back in the water. On a major re=plank job obviously a bit longer.

The number of BC and AK wooden work boats is significant, some dating back to the thirties and still happily in use. The concern for owners of 40+ year old FRP boats may well be a concern as disposal costs are markedly higher than wood. Do FRP vessels make good artificial reefs?

sunchaser said:

Do FRP vessels make good artificial reefs?

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Yes they do. This is something we have been working on for our own boat for some time now.