"Best-Reputed seakeeping hulls ever" Huh?

The warped bottom was my basis for the comparison, should have known better than to compare it to a lobsterboat, it's a topic always sure to raise controversy.
Downeast Boat Forums has hosted some hot debate over what a lobsterboat really is, and having a warped bottom may be the only criteria shared by most all modern lobsterboats.
The bottom line is, If I had a 44' Trojan Express sitting in my yard and had to do a makeover on it, I would not even consider building it up as a trawler. (or a lobsterboat!)

kapnd said:

The warped bottom was my basis for the comparison, should have known better than to compare it to a lobsterboat, it's a topic always sure to raise controversy.
Downeast Boat Forums has hosted some hot debate over what a lobsterboat really is, and having a warped bottom may be the only criteria shared by most all modern lobsterboats.
The bottom line is, If I had a 44' Trojan Express sitting in my yard and had to do a makeover on it, I would not even consider building it up as a trawler. (or a lobsterboat!)

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No controversy. Just a discussion of hull types. I had a good friend that had a 35' Duffy. It was close to a pure lobster boat hull. It was a good solid boat that handled chop very well. Not so good on following seas, but manageable. The problem I see with them as cruiser hulls is the bow section tapers in so sharply that there is little room for accommodations there. I was in discussion with Lee S. Wilbur about building a boat. I took the family up to SW Harbor to see and talk with them. There was just not enough room to get the space we needed.

While we were at Wilbur's he asked if he could borrow my 6' 5" son for a little while. They were fitting a boat for a tuna fighting chair. He figured it would fit my son, it would work for anyone. By the way, when he saw my two sons, he said that he understood the need for cabin space.

kthoennes said:

There was any boat made in the entire history of mankind that David Pascoe actually liked? .

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I look at his as just opinions like anyone else. I really don't value them like many do. I think it's hard to maintain objectivity sometimes, but he tends to show his personal prejudices in his reviews more than I wish. To me, you judge a boat against it's goals and normal use. That's why I judge a boat like Bayliner very positively, but I don't hold it to the same standards I would Nordhavn. If a Nordhavn didn't feel safe crossing oceans then it would be a failure. On a Bayliner that would be a relative non issue.

manyboats said:

Don they were built well when I worked there in the early 70's.

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Eric, my boat was one of the early ones out of the Swansboro plant. Uniflite was really trying to get boats out. Because we were fishing tournaments they really took care of us. It felt almost like being on a factory sponsored team. It we had a problem during a tournament, the plant was about 25 miles away. They would send parts and a crew to do the install at no charge. Someone from the factory would be on the dock checking on us when we returned every day. Now, where can you get that kind of service?

Nearly 35 years ago I owned a Trojan 36 woodie in really nice condition. Awlgrip and top of line vanish etc. I cruised with several other Trojans, all gas models, including a 35 FRP, 38 tri cabin, 12 meter and 44 flush deck. We'd take enough trips together so that fuel burns and handling could easily be compared to other brands for bragging rights.

The cream of the crop for speed combined with fuel burn was our 36 woodie. It was lighter, narrower and would stay on plane at several mph less than the others. The fellow with the 12 meter traded off his Carver Mariner to get it. He loved the sex appeal of the 12 but it was so wide that fuel burn was not too good.

Our 36 (Crusader 383s) would go all day at around 18 knots and 2400 RPM burning about 16 gph combined. Wake was minimal in comparison to the other wider and heavier Trojans. We never strayed from the Mississippi and Illinois Rivers with it. Friends with Trojans did the loop on an annual basis for a few years and loved the speed and sea keeping combination. But alas, lack of sales neutered the brand and the nice run Trojan had.

For a DIYer there are still some shining fresh water examples around that could be brought up to current to yield an eventually very nice vessel. Especially where diesel range is not needed. The new large bore V8s are pretty nice and a bit more fuel friendly than those of 40 years ago.

Down east boats had to increase beam to accommodate more powerful diesel engines that were becoming the norm. Longer runs, more traps and heavier engines needed more hull.

My Grandparents had a planked Trojan for decades, from the late 60's. They lived on it up in the San Juan's/Gulf Islands for the summers of every year. I borrowed it on vacations. It was fast for its size. Twin gas V8's. They kept it showroom. Loved the all wood boats back then. Its sea keeping in following seas was dangerous. my Grandparents were fair weather boaters and the boat was great for that. Fast when needed or economical if run thoughtful. It was nice, although the sea keeping hull of a good trawler is more my taste. Trojans were somewhat weight sensitive and were built as the pleasure boat with speed capability. Trawlers can be loaded down and their performance still be enjoyed considering their hull mission. Liked the Trojan, but loved trawlers. And still do - near 50 years later. Trawlers are timeless.

Lots of great information. What is meant by "a warped bottom"? Pictures or diagram?

keb said:

Lots of great information. What is meant by "a warped bottom"? Pictures or diagram?

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Basically how the hull transitions from the sharper entry of the bow to the straighter run aft. I just made that up, but it describes my thinking. You know, kind of warped.

Warped ..... it's the warped bottom.

If you had a straight run aft and constant deadrise the bottom would not be warped. But if one changes the deadrise as you go aft (usually as in less DR) the bottom gets a twisted shape. This twist is what is refered to as a warped bottom.

Prior to 1965 or so most all "V" bottom boats were warped. The warped bottoms ran more efficiently and w less squat or more level. So warped bottoms are very common.

"What is meant by "a warped bottom"? Pictures or diagram?"

you asked for this:

Honey...does this anti-fouling paint make my bottom looked warped?


And now...something entirely different:

1st one , extreme beam to length ratio. Second on Tolman skiff build?

rardion,
Excellent photographic example of a warped bottom!

Eric--- Regarding working lobsterboats and their beam here are three shots I took a few years ago. First shot is a pair of lobsterboats on Prince Edward Island. Next two shots are of a then-new lobsterboat we saw in Maine.

Chesapeake crab boat loaded with traps



Maine lobster boat loaded with traps

rardoin said:

"What is meant by "a warped bottom"? Pictures or diagram?"



you asked for this:

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Boy I set myself up for that one didn't I?

Question of seakeeping is too broad. Lots of hulls were designed for speed, some for stability, some for survival.


What do you want to achieve?

bayview said:

Question of seakeeping is too broad. Lots of hulls were designed for speed, some for stability, some for survival.


What do you want to achieve?

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..for most readers, try and put the article into perspective...

Even the boaters here have boating criteria that is all over the place.

The 2 P.E.I style lobster boats are a different animal from the Downeast boats. That Young brothers boat is beautiful.

manyboats said:

rardion,
Excellent photographic example of a warped bottom!

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Web pirated photo of a Glen-L build....the second photo that is. The first one was the inspiration for a Queen song!

Leaving myself wide open for ridicule, the best seakeeping hull I was ever on believe it or not was a 2000 model Carver 325. Never personally cared for Carvers but whether it was skilled engineering or sheer luck, the hulls they produced for these little boats still holds my awe and admiration. A good friend had one, it could glide through the water at slower speeds without leaving a ripple and yet would practically jump on plane when hitting the throttles. With big honking twin 500 cu/in Mercs, it burned less fuel than my Silverton with less than 1/2 the horsepower. What impressed me most however was being caught one night in a raging storm in the middle of Georgian Bay. For 8 miserable, frightening hours it climbed steep short frequency breaking waves until the engines would nearly bog out at the top and then surfed down the other side at frightening speeds. There was never a moment it felt out of control, it did not slew when pushed or bury the bow in the troughs and tracked like it was on rails the whole time. Despite how ridiculously top heavy these boats look I don't think the CofG is as wacky as it seems. I sometimes wonder if Carver ever realized just what they had created. Nonetheless when a manufacturer gets something right they should be applauded, so here is my shout out to Carver for the hull design on the 325's