PSS Dripless Shaft Seal Maintenance

RickB wrote:back in the olden days they used to use tallow for gooping up salvage patches. They had to work fast though because the fish loved to eat the stuff and would gobble it up before the diver got the patch on.

Never heard of using butter or margarine though. Then again, who the heck has tallow these days?

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How about Cheese Whiz?* A few years ago I read a very funny article in a boating magazine about all the uses for Cheese Whiz on a boat.* Sealing, caulking, patching holes in the hull, the list went on and on.

*

Used Crisco to plug seams on my old wood boat that had been on the hard for 4 months.* Worked good.

nomadwilly wrote:
Really!* How big of a hole will it plug? Is margarine or butter better?

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*

How big of a hole will it plug? It depends on the shape of the hole and how much of the stuff you have available to shove into the hole. I would say the palm of your hand is about max width. A splintered plank in a wooden hull is the perfect task for this approach. Anything bigger, smear as much as you can around the edges then press your favorite wool blanket into the middle of the hole. Wool blankets are thick andwill impede water flow into your boat. The butter/margarine you smeared around the edges will cling very nicely to the wool, sealing the edges. Remember this is for emergency repair to to stop your vessel from sinking. Just so slowly get yourself to the nearest haul-out yard.
Is margarine or butter better? Grab whatever is available in your fridge! If there is a hole in your*boat you will be too stressed to start thinking of which to use.

Roger
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-- Edited by r-rossow on Sunday 23rd of January 2011 07:02:45 AM

I would be grabbing something other than butter if I had a hole in my boat. A rag, shirt or pillow
would be stuffed in the hole before I ever thought about butter, oatmeal or cheeze whiz.

Back to the subject of the PSS shaft seal flinging water while underway. A mechanic at North Harbor Diesel in Anacortes, WA told me that he takes a piece of 400 wet-dry sandpaper, folded in half,*and puts it between the face and carbon seal and then turns the shaft to reface the seal a bit. When I tried it, I started the engine and put it in gear to rotate the shaft at slow idle and this is what the mechanic did. I guess if you could easily turn your shaft by hand that may also work and then it could be a one man job. I found it works for awhile but not forever.

Ron

Marin wrote:

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RickB wrote:back in the olden days they used to use tallow for gooping up salvage patches. They had to work fast though because the fish loved to eat the stuff and would gobble it up before the diver got the patch on.

Never heard of using butter or margarine though. Then again, who the heck has tallow these days?

Click to expand...

How about Cheese Whiz?* A few years ago I read a very funny article in a boating magazine about all the uses for Cheese Whiz on a boat.* Sealing, caulking, patching holes in the hull, the list went on and on.
And the cool thing about cheese whiz is that in 20 years ... if you ate it it would still taste the same... and probably be just as good for you.... if you add a package of Twinkies you should have the perfect kit to deal with the munchies and water intrusion.... all with a 25 year shelf life!
HOLLYWOOD

*

I keep a wax toilet bowl ring and a block of that electrician's putty they use to seal up enclosures to stop leaks in an emergency. The Cheese Whiz stops leaks in me.

For long shelf life and the ability to stick to anything, I recommend Wonder Bread. I was plowing a neighbor's field for a spring garden, and turned up a loaf that had probably been buried for a few years.* Made sandwiches and went back to work.

All,
I just noticed some metal "shavings" under my PSS Dripless seals.* I know these metal shavings are new because I just had the bilge painted about 6 months ago.* I checked the plumbing to be sure water was getting to it.* I looked ok.* I then pushed the rubber bellows back and I heard some air escape and then a very little bit of water dripped on my hand.* I was surprised by the slightly pressurized air that escaped.
Having just read Guru's post on "burping" these things from time to time, it made me think that maybe that it was somehow "airlocked" and thus ran hot which lead to the metal shavings.
Now the question is, what do I do now?* Do the metal shavings mean the seal is shot and I should replace asap?* No water is leaking at this time.

Thanks for the advise.

Steve

Deflin,
Wonder Bread for the breast in bed?

Taras,
I was told one must make sure the bearing surface remains wet. That's it's lubrication just like the stern (cutlass) bearing. Since the stern tube angles up as one comes fwd when you push the top of the carbon fibre bearing a bit aft (w the boat shut down) all the air will come out at the gap. I'd hold it well open until solid water comes out the gap. I also remember they said don't put anything on it except water. I'd say if it dos'nt leak watch it and plan on addressing the issue at next haul out.

Taras, is the vent line hooked up and not blocked?* The vent is designed to allow the air to evacuate the bellows.* If it is blocked, the bearing runs dry and you'll get a great deal of wear very quickly.

Our drip-less has a small hose from the raw water that pumps water into the bellows to lubricated the bearing.* The reason I was told is; as the boat increase speed a vacuum is created that sucks the water out the tube so raw water has to be pumped in and*the stern cutlass bearing holder has forward facing scoops to force water into the bearing.** So you might want to plumb pressurized raw water to the drip-less.


*
I switch to a drip-less as I was told that even if the shaft was teaks it would not leak because of the bellows.* Not sure if this is true but sounded good to me as I am planning for going a ground and/or beggaring up the prop/shaft.* Been a soft ground twice and on very low tides at our dock we sit on the bottom.** *****

You really don't need the "vent" attached to the raw water flow unless the boat is capable of powering over 12 knots, which is the threshold PYI uses. If you are borderline, I recommend the connection be made. Under 12 knots does not need a vent and in many cases has a plug in the hole. But without the vent and under certain circumstances the bellows needs to be burped, or the air purged from it. This needs to be done every time the boat is hauled, or in the case of a sailboat, if the boat heals over enough to allow air around the shaft log. A proper vent line eliminates this. Chuck

"You really don't need the "vent" attached to the raw water flow unless the boat is capable of powering over 12 knots."

Without the vent, burping the bellows is mandatory.* Forget, and you'll cause damage.* I found this out the hard way, and installed the vent.* If you burp the bellows, you should be ok, but vent installation is mandatory for speeds over 12 knots, per the instructions.

Delfin wrote:

"You really don't need the "vent" attached to the raw water flow unless the boat is capable of powering over 12 knots."

Without the vent, burping the bellows is mandatory.* Forget, and you'll cause damage.* I found this out the hard way, and installed the vent.* If you burp the bellows, you should be ok, but vent installation is mandatory for speeds over 12 knots, per the instructions.

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That is pretty much what I said. Chuck

*

Close enough Chuck, except that without the vent, you don't need to vent the bellows "under certain circumstances", you always do if the boat has been out of the water for a day or two, and not the "generally three months" or more that PSS says in their installation instructions.* There is nothing to keep the seawater in the stern tube once the boat is hauled, since the cutlass bearing drains allows the water to drain freely.* Once put back in the water, there is no way to get water to the forward cutlass bearing without burping.

At least that is my experience.

Capn Chuck wrote:

You really don't need the "vent" attached to the raw water flow unless the boat is capable of powering over 12 knots, which is the threshold PYI uses. If you are borderline, I recommend the connection be made. Under 12 knots does not need a vent and in many cases has a plug in the hole. But without the vent and under certain circumstances the bellows needs to be burped, or the air purged from it. This needs to be done every time the boat is hauled, or in the case of a sailboat, if the boat heals over enough to allow air around the shaft log. A proper vent line eliminates this. Chuck

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And that is what I said, so I am confused. I think I have only installed a couple of hundred of these. Chuck

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-- Edited by Capn Chuck on Tuesday 25th of January 2011 08:43:17 PM

-- Edited by Capn Chuck on Tuesday 25th of January 2011 08:43:57 PM

Chuck, my apologies if you thought I was arguing with you.* The tone of your post seemed to indicate that installation of the vent line was optional, since you indicated that there were "borderline" cases where it might not be needed.* I don't think so, but you have clarified that is not what you meant.

So the vent is really there to insure air does not get trapped and the seal run dry?

On my boat it is plumbed to the*raw engine cooling water, but being basically a slow boat that vent can be just left open as long as it is well above the waterline.

Is there are advantage one way or the other?* open to the atmosphere or plumbed to water?*** JohnP
*

Steve
One signigificant factor in using the PSS system is that if you do NOT have a water feed tube to it, then when you haul the boat water will drain from it. Now when you launch the boat, there is an air pocket inside the PSS bellows. You HAVE to compress it by hand to "burp it" in order to let the water out. If you dont, you can burn it up.

They took care of this in recent years by adding the optional water feed tube to the top of the bellows. In 2007 when I replaced mine, I chose the water feed tube. Its not required for slow trawlers like ours, but I didnt want to have to remember to burp it.

In 2007 when we surveyed and then bought our boat, our PSS was never burped. I dont think the owner knew it was supposed to. The rotor had rust on it and it leaked slightly when the shaft turned. It was bone dry at rest. So I replaced it.

People ask how long do they last? Mine lasted 4000 engine hours and about 7 years.
Before I replaced mine I spoke with Dan Schalk, the lead engineer for the PSS system at PYI. He suggested that I take some fine wet sand paper and try to resurface the face of the bellows as was already described below. However, I found that when I tried to insert the paper, the incoming water pressure made it very difficult. It was messy. So I simply deceided it was time to replace it.
Its been very good ever since.

You can see my PSS installation with the water tube to it here
http://tinyurl.com/2e9ou5y
which is an article I wrote that has some pictures that show the PSS.
R.

But the old waxed packing seal is more secure given a small bit of maintenance.

And the modern Goretex is a one time install , adjust then forget.

Why put the boat at risk for a one time job?

All,
what a great post!* I have learned so much about my dripless shafts.
Thank you for all the great information.

I do have a water line going to my dripless shaft and I did check it to be sure it was not plugged or anything.

I guess since I have now burped the seal, that all should be fine???** I will keep a close eye on it and if any additional metal shaving appear, then it will be time for more investigation.

Steve