Towing companies

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Conall63

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
209
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Homegrown
Vessel Make
Roberts TY 43
Greetings all,

Since I'm getting close to making the transition from a river boater to the Gulf coast, the idea of boat towing companies has been creeping into my head.

I'm not 100% sure how these companies work, but I think I have an idea. Do most fellow forum members feel it a good idea to have an account with one of these outfits? Any recommendations as to who I might consider?

Conall
 
Most of them are pretty much the same in terms of contracts.

It is the service the local franchises provide that is the diffrence...it can be quite different based on attitude, equipment, area size, etc.

Where I tow, most boaters are with the company I work for because the boat I run is the only towboat for at least an hour in each direction...makes sense to them I guess.

Many cruisers actually have both major companies for this very reason. The quickest to respond gets the nod. For less than an addition $200 it is worth it to them.

Some here have a good argument against tow insurance. For the number of times they have needed tows, it is cheaper to be self insured. Good and hard to argue point.

So it is up to you whether you need it atvall...and usually best to see the operations where you primarily boat...there could be a huge difference in professionalism...if you can use that word for that type of work.
 
Conall, the answer is yes! Where do you plan on being based? The two major tow companies are franchises, and range of service can vary by location. Best to ask around.


We have always been TowBoatUS members and found them very helpful when we were full time cruising up and down the east coast and the eastern gulf coast. Needed their services once in Little River SC and once out of Morehead City and both providers were excellent technically and "bedside manner" wise. I also found the local branches very helpful at providing accurate local knowledge about inlets and shoal-prone areas, and used them a lot for that area. No direct experience with SeaTow other than their excellent automatic radio check system, but they certainly have their followers.
 
psneeld,

Can you explain how maritime salvage laws work in relation to towing? We hear nightmare stories of tow companies bending, and/or breaking, the laws by demanding insane prices to get your boat back from them. It seems to have some relation to a designation of soft grounding versus hard grounding. In addition, can you give us some pointers on how to avoid these scams and pitfalls? What we should ask during a tow service call? What we should and should not sign? Finally, what to do if we have to abandon our vessel during a tow?

Thanks.
 
I was a SeaTow operator for a couple years, a couple decades ago. I have been an on and off BoatUS member for the past 10 years.

They are close in benefits. You DO have to worry about where you will boat. The 'cut off' for coverage (river, inland, oceans) is slightly different between the two. Ask and get the info before you buy.

If you intend on doing the Loop SeaTow is non existent in most of the Great Lakes.

I spent about 10 years with boat us insurance with towing with my previous sailboat. But never used the towing. Eventually I just dropped the 'towing' part of the insurance. The sails were my 'get home' engine.

Now that I have a single engine trawler I have no other means of 'getting home' so I got towing coverage.

Regarding coverage, they have different levels of coverage, and can cover trailer towing or insurance. Call them up and get comparisons. Towing ranges from 80 to 200 a year depending upon coverage you want and where you will boat. The further south you go, the longer the season, the more the price is.

Good Luck.
 
Most are not aware that there is tow coverage on their marine insurance policy- and that coverage is not limited to a commercial tow provider.
 
The way the contract is written, there is a difference between hard and soft groundng. Hard groundings are covered by your hull insurance. Soft groundings are covered by towing. When a boat runs aground and can be just 'popped off' the bottom, with no damage (still has water tight integrity) it is usually (but not always) considered a soft grounding. If a vessel needs patching, pumping and escorting to a travel lift slip it is a hard grounding.

The cases where there is confusion (or greed) on either part is where the disputes can arise. There is also an issue when a boater does NOT have adequate grounding insurance to cover possible damage.

To put it simply, when you just need a tow, are out of fuel, or batteries are dead the towing company is all you need. BUT if you need salvage then your boat hull insurance is what is used to pay. The difference between towing and salvage is the issue.
 
Most are not aware that there is tow coverage on their marine insurance policy- and that coverage is not limited to a commercial tow provider.
But it is usually limited to just a couple hundred dollars.
 
Yes and no.

If there is an event such as running out of fuel, having repair parts brought to you, etc., the limit is the amount shown on the second page.

On the other hand- if there is a claim event generated (struck a submerged object, sinking, fire, etc., the tow bill is part of the claim and not limited to the line item amount on the policy.

We're just closing a claim in the Portland area- a 32' Luhrs sunk at the dock, and is a total loss. The bill to refloat the boat and tow her to the yard for haulout is about $9k- and insurance is paying the amount in full.

2nd example- a good friend with a 66' Grand Alaskan had a soft grounding, and the bill between the divers refloating the boat and the tugboat providing tow muscle eclipsed $10k- again, paid for by his insurance.

The key is having the right policy.
 
I have Boat US when we go on a "long" cruise, past Apalachicola, Fl I add Sea Tow membership too. Never had to use either,yet, so can't opine on which is best. It probably varies by area.
 
I'm going to be based out of Cape Coral, but first have to get there starting from mobile bay....so wester Fl and northern gulf for the next year. No ambitious plans for a year or so, with only western Florida planned.

Conall
 
Yes and no.

The key is having the right policy.
Thats the key. The scenarios you describe in detail are hard groundings. Anything that requires more than a 'yank' or a bottle of gas will be argued over as being hard. Anything that requires special talent (diver, tugs, patches) is hard. This is how the arguments start.
 
I buy boat insurance for peace of mind. I figure is Murphy Law. Of we have it, seen probably will not need if, BUT if we did not then probably will. :D for 20 years have used Boat Us as they have good coverage in the Seattle area.

The few times we may have needed a tow, I was able to jury rig and limp to a, marina. If we cruise to remote area we will tow our 19 ft run about that can tow the Eagle. We carrying most normal everyday parts will a full set of tools. Our insurance policy does cover towing that we would use if the towing cost became expensive. Mostly peace of mind. :thumb:
 
Usually, as Pau Hana described, it is fairly clear to the insurance companies and the tow/salvage companies what is covered by insurance....regardless of what you want to call it. When the insurance company coughs up thousands of dollars, regardless of what you call it, that is really all that matters. Insurance companies do not part with money easily. I had a buddy that let his 20 something son use his Sea Ray 32. He ran it up on a sandbar. Boat was not damaged but they certainly were not going to get ungrounded on their own. Called Sea Tow(THEY WERE MEMBERS). They ungrounded the boat. The bill was $3800. And the insurance paid it. The end.

The one thing you do get when you use someone like TowBoatUS(and hopefully Sea Tow), is a code of ethics as it relates to tow and salvage. Somebody posted links up above provided by Boat US as to their practices as it relates to this subject.
 
Thats the key. The scenarios you describe in detail are hard groundings. Anything that requires more than a 'yank' or a bottle of gas will be argued over as being hard. Anything that requires special talent (diver, tugs, patches) is hard. This is how the arguments start.

I'll respectfully disagree, brother- from the insurance standpoint, no policy I've ever read delineates what constitutes a grounding as you describe. Claims will simply be told the vessel is aground, and that's that. No argument.

In the case of the Grand Alaskan, it was simply a grounding (I just call claims to ask their side). The specifics- the vessel was on its mooring ball outside the residence, and the wind/weather came up. the mooring line parted, and the vessel was pushed up by wave action into the shallows. The divers were called to place lift bags in place to lift the 125k lb vessel enough to break mud suction and let the tug do its job.

No rocks or perforating damage to the hull. just stuck in the mud.
 
PauHana; said:
The specifics- the vessel was on its mooring ball outside the residence,and the wind/weather came up. the mooring line parted, and the vessel waspushed up by wave action into the shallows.
Peter;
Using the above as a hypothetical, do you often see, or hear of, claims denied because of lack of care, neglect, improper equipment etc?

When I read "mooring line parted," I think of an escape hatch for the insurer.
 
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I have a Tow-Salvage agreement that I keep on the boat. Basically it says that the tow boat operator and the boat owner agree that the boat and its occupants are not in imminent danger and both parties agree that what is needed is a tow, not a salvage of the boat.


If anyone wants a copy of it you can PM me with your email address and I'll send you the Word file. Feel free to amend it however you want.
 

Peter;
Usingthe above as a hypothetical, do you often see, or hear of, claims denied becauseof lack of care, neglect, improperequipment etc?

WhenI read "mooring line parted," I think of an escape hatch for theinsurer.

At this time, there is still an investigation re the mooring line. The client has receipts that show the line was purchased in the past 6 months, and the recovered lines show evidence of a clean break (as in being cut). So far the investigation has concluded that the insured is not acting fraudulently (vessel is paid for, household is debt free, ships and maintenance logs are impeccable).

As to claims denials- it does happen, but not often. You'll hear about the claim that is denied due the above list, (and the insured is certain that his f###ing insurance company is crap)- you won't hear about the hundreds of claims processed and paid without incident.

In my experience, the insuring company is looking for ways to pay the claim within the wording of the policy language.
 
My problem in understanding this topic has to do with federal maritime salvage laws. If you get off your boat under peril, the salvage company then (the way I understand it) OWNS your boat under some sort of lien. There are huge loopholes in how much they can charge and how long it takes to resolve disputes. In the meantime, you still have a boat that needs fixing, and as is often the case, have to keep paying for.

The interweb is littered with accounts of tow/salvage companies that have made it difficult to trust even the largest of towing organizations. Compounded by the fact that both of the biggest operate under a model of franchise companies that carry their name, therefore, not always consistent in service levels, pricing, or employee hiring. Otherwise, you wouldn't hear things like you do around our local waters... That the Sea Tow guys suck and for everyone to use Tow Boat US... That is a constant chatter I have heard from everyone in this area, whereas, the opposite is true in other areas.

All I want to learn is how to protect us from that? I feel like we can trust, to a greater degree, what our community members say about it, thus the inquiry.
 
I have the "unlimited" TowBoatUS tow policy.

I had a mechanical failure in a remote area of Louisiana that wasn't covered by either of the two tow companies. Finally found a dive boat that agreed to come out and they towed me back in for $1200.

I had to pay them with a credit card, but I turned in my receipt to TowBoatUS and they refunded the entire amount. No questions asked. I was pretty impressed.
 
Tom to answer your question about trust, re read my post #18. That document takes the trust factor our of the equation.
 
Staying out of this one as it already is nothing like what I have experienced for 13 years.

I will honor Tom's request for info in a PM.

Besides as someone always reminds us...nobody here is an expert and everything needs to be double checked with certain other experts anyway...:rofl:
 
Tom to answer your question about trust, re read my post #18. That document takes the trust factor our of the equation.

And you also risk the tow operator turning around and leaving you stranded. YOU have to realize that the operation might be a salvage. And if you shove that piece of paper into the face of a towboat operator, then you risk being left to your own devices as to how you are going to extract yourself from the situation. Believe it or not, most tow boat operators are not out to **** you out of your boat.

The bottom line here folks is that you need to have an insurance policy that covers salvage up to the full value of the boat without a deductible. If you do that, we are not having this conversation. If you don't do that, then you are leaving yourself open to the (alleged) predatory practices you are worried about. Is the insurance company the winner here???? Maybe...but probably not. They almost always pay in these situations. Like my example in my previous post. I thought the $3800 bill was fair. The tow/salvage operator was not trying to steal the boat But he also had the resources available to get that boat off of the sandbar. He maintains those resources in ready deployable condition. And he did exactly what he was hired to do. And the insurance company paid without argument.
 
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We have both because we tend to cover a lot of ground. We also have coverage under our boat insurance. We would use the tow membership for issues like engines die, out of fuel, soft grounding with no known damage. But if it's an accident of some sort then we'd immediately notify our insurer and take steps within the framework of that policy.

The only thing I'd add is get the top level tow membership, not the one that at various times marinas offer "free" or boat dealers or others. I've seen people with the Boat US basic find out at the time of tow that it only covers the first $50 of a tow.

I have never used either for a tow, but I feel like I owe them as so many of the towboat captains are great sources of current information on a given area. All those I've met and talked to have been very professional.

Also, I want to support them so the accessibility to towing remains or even increases. If not for the two towing memberships, I don't think we'd have half the tow boats available that we have.

Oh and please recognize these are not insurance. They are memberships.
 
My problem in understanding this topic has to do with federal maritime salvage laws. If you get off your boat under peril, the salvage company then (the way I understand it) OWNS your boat under some sort of lien. There are huge loopholes in how much they can charge and how long it takes to resolve disputes. In the meantime, you still have a boat that needs fixing, and as is often the case, have to keep paying for.

The interweb is littered with accounts of tow/salvage companies that have made it difficult to trust even the largest of towing organizations. Compounded by the fact that both of the biggest operate under a model of franchise companies that carry their name, therefore, not always consistent in service levels, pricing, or employee hiring. Otherwise, you wouldn't hear things like you do around our local waters... That the Sea Tow guys suck and for everyone to use Tow Boat US... That is a constant chatter I have heard from everyone in this area, whereas, the opposite is true in other areas.

All I want to learn is how to protect us from that? I feel like we can trust, to a greater degree, what our community members say about it, thus the inquiry.
Tom
You are seriously misinformed. No Salvor "Owns" your boat after a successful salvage. They have a right to compensation, but not title. Whether you are on or off your boat has very little to do in the equation also.
I'm going to give a few facts on about marine salvage and
hopefully not put you to sleep.
The premise of marine salvage is that the owner must take all available steps to protect the vessel AS IF IT IS UNINSURED. This goes, both ways. Your insurance company will be very unhappy with you if you have available salvage services and turn them down to "Save the insurance company money" and the damage is escalated later. They have grounds for denial of claim. The salvage contract doesn't care if there is insurance or not, its irrelevant. In practical matters the salvor wants to get paid, usually from insurance, but not always.
There are 3 elements to a marine salvage.
1: It must be voluntary. No salvage awards to members of the crew because it is your duty to protect your vessel. No salvage awards to Military (Coast Guard, Navy, or army)
2 There must be peril. If you are aground or sinking , there is peril. If the boat has already sunk, it is a different situation.
3: The salvage must be successful, in whole or in part. The salvors must use their best endeavors to successfully save the casualty. There is a new wrinkle on this because of threats to the environment (oil pollution) that insurance companies and salvors are trying to figure out.

To further complicate matters there are to types salvage, pure and contract.
Lloyds open form 2000 (which most peeps have heard of) is the international standard of marine salvage. Believe it or not, the so called "generous" salvage awards that are handed down are a direct result of the insurers wanting salvors out there, taking risks . In other words appeal to the pocket book. What they (insurers) don't want is for mariners to sail past casualties because it won't be financially worth their while to stop and render assistance. This is contract salvage in its purest form "No Cure No Pay".
Pure salvage is when a moored boat breaks its mooring and the owners don't know it and salvage averts the casualty from hitting other boats or grounding. These are the hardest to deal with because there is no prior agreement between the owners and salvors.
For every horror story about greedy towing company/salvors, there is a reverse story about customers.
I have been involved in several yacht salvages that went to arbitration or court because of unhappy customers or insurers.
One was a well known broker for a very old Boston firm that stranded his sail boat on and offshore rock ledge. He told us that we would not be able to free it and it was going to be a CTL (constructive total loss). We explained that he had nothing to lose and we would assume the risk and if we weren't successful there would be no claim. Long story short we took it off with $6500 in damage and it was fixed in short order.
We made a claim to the insurers for $14000 and were told that they would pay $2000 for towage and refused to acknowledge it was salvage. We were too blocked for several months and agreed to arbitration. A federal judge on Cape cod, ruled that not only was it salvage, the insurers were trying to bully a small salvor/operator from a valid salvage claim. We were awarded $41,000.
On another stranding, an owner of a large Searay ran up on the rocks and needed pumps and equipment to free him. He tried to sue me in federal court for $1,000,000. saying he wasn't aground and it was a routine tow. My atty presented pictures of his boat with folded up running gear and a severe port list hanging 5'in the air from the rock. The judge threw it out of court. In both of these cases owners signed SALVAGE AGREEMENTS that shifted responsibility to me. Do I want to be paid when I'm successful? hell ya! These were both done in the 1980's when I owned a Sea-Tow licensed area.
On the tug that I know work on we have been involved in contract salvage and the largest was in excess of 33 million dollars. The knife cuts both ways, we have been on jobs with losses in excess of 10 mill.
 
@TomB. I would have to complete a sentence you wrote: The inter web is littered with stories...... Of people who have 'cheap-o' non qualified insurance policies that are poorly written with loopholes miles wide.

You will probably never hear of the thousands of cases that insurance companies pay off without an issue.

If you continue on, have hull insurance and towing insurance in all likelihood you will never need or use either of them.

If your boat is 'shipshape' it will survive a 'post accident' investigation. If so, then don't worry about the coverage or the 'clauses'.
 
@TomB. I would have to complete a sentence you wrote: The inter web is littered with stories...... Of people who have 'cheap-o' non qualified insurance policies that are poorly written with loopholes miles wide.

You will probably never hear of the thousands of cases that insurance companies pay off without an issue.

If you continue on, have hull insurance and towing insurance in all likelihood you will never need or use either of them.

If your boat is 'shipshape' it will survive a 'post accident' investigation. If so, then don't worry about the coverage or the 'clauses'.

And, please, read your policy. Ask questions. Know what you have and what you need to do in the event of an incident. Also, have a broker you trust. Someone not just to assist you at the time of purchase, but who will be there in the event you have a claim. The advice they give you while you're waiting for the insurance claim representative to contact you may be worth quite a bit.
 
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