Mystery Oil

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Piano player at a house of ill repute?


Oops, sorry. That's my dream occupation.

You may be quoting something from aviation...which quite likely came from somewhere else. But the quote something like this:

Don't tell my mother I am an airline pilot...she thinks I am a piano player in a whorehouse!!!
 
You may be quoting something from aviation...which quite likely came from somewhere else. But the quote something like this:

Don't tell my mother I am an airline pilot...she thinks I am a piano player in a whorehouse!!!

Piano keys, console buttons all the same.....

Difference is a pilot can play all those buttons holding a hot cup of coffee....:D
 
What exactly does any of this crap have to do with Marvel Mystery Oil?
 
What exactly does any of this crap have to do with Marvel Mystery Oil?

Nothing other than they're both worthless.

For anyone interested, here is the history of the stuff from Wikipedia, if one has any faith in their interpretation of events....

Marvel Mystery Oil is a product of the Marvel Oil Company, founded by Burt Pierce in 1923. After World War I the Marvel Carburetor Company (Marvel-Schebler Carburetors since 1928) produced carburetors for automobiles and aircraft. Some of these encountered problems and as a result Pierce formulated a blend of chemicals and petroleum to clean and maintain clogged jets. It is claimed without evidence to be beneficial for engines by creating a top ring seal producing higher compression, preventing blow-by on power strokes, resulting in more power. The Marvel Oil Company was purchased by Turtle Wax Inc. in 1999.
 
Maybe I could get another 100,000 out of my 87 Nissan if I use MMO. It definitely has blow-by .. even at idle.
 
Just out of interest...re this low sulphur diesel lubricity, or lack of, and if it is an issue or not, such that it makes an additive wise for some engines, in particular the L120...has anyone actually ever put this exact query to Bob Smith of American Diesel..? Surely he is one person recognised as an expert re this engine by everyone on this forum..?
 
....has anyone actually ever put this exact query to Bob Smith of American Diesel..?

Bob Smith is the person who keeps telling FL120 operators to use MMO in their fuel. This despite the recent studies that show MMO actually reduces lubricity and is not recommended as a diesel fuel additive.

Bob knows a lot about Lehmans, no question, but this shows how people can cling to shade-tree-mechanic myths even after they've been debunked by tests and facts.

He told me to use it during a conversation some years back but on the advice of friends in the diesel engine manufacturing industry and then later after reading the results of the additive studies there is no way in hell I'd put it in the tanks of our boat.
 
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Bob Smith is the person who keeps telling FL120 operators to use MMO in their fuel. This despite the recent studies that show MMO actually reduces lubricity and is not recommended as a diesel fuel additive.

Bob knows a lot about Lehmans, no question, but this shows how people can cling to shade-tree-mechanic myths even after they've been debunked by tests and facts.

He told me to use it during a conversation some years back but on the advice of friends in the diesel engine manufacturing industry and then later after reading the results of the additive studies there is no way in hell I'd put it in the tanks of our boat.

So Bob Smith is not an "expert" on Lehman engines???
 
Maybe I could get another 100,000 out of my 87 Nissan if I use MMO. It definitely has blow-by .. even at idle.

Eric--- Don't know how relevant this is to your blow-by thing, but back in 1973 when I bought my new Land Rover Series III-88 STP oil treatment was all the rage. At the time the Land Rover was the most expensive civilian 4 x 4 on the market in the US and wanting to maximize my new vehicle's life I fell for the hype and decided to add STP to the oil. As you may recall, STP has a very heavy consistency.

So I poured in the recommended amount in the parking lot of the auto parts store in Honolulu where I'd bought the STP and started driving home. Immediately--- and I mean immediately--- the engine started knocking on acceleration or under load. Away from a stoplight, up a gentle grade, you name it.

Very much alarmed, the next day I went back to the store and bought 8 quarts of Castrol GTX 20-50, the recommended lube oil for the Land Rover in my climate. I went home and changed the oil and it ran perfectly. No knocking.

But being young and gullible I still believed that STP would be good for the engine. Just goes to show you the power of persuasive marketing, right?

So I bought another can and added it to the oil again. And exactly the same thing happened. The engine immediately began knocking on acceleration or under load.

Back to the store, bought another 8 quarts of Castrol and changed the oil again and never put STP or anything else in the oil again.

Although at the time I did not know much about engines, I tried to figure out what had been happening when I added the STP but could not fathom what had been going on. Whatever it was, it had to be related to the STP vastly increasing the viscosity of the 20-50 oil in the engine. This was a brand new engine so blow-by from worn rings would not have been a factor. Knocking is usually a timing issue but I don't see any way simply increasing the viscosity of the oil could affect the ignition timing unless the compression was somehow being affected which then made the ignition timing incorrect under load. So it's still a mystery to me.

But if what was happening was that the STP-thickened oil was somehow affecting the compression ratio, perhaps something similar would happen in your vehicle if you added MMO. I've never even seen MMO so I have no idea of its viscosity.

Or you can try STP if they still make it. Where it made my new vehicle knock it might make your old one run better. :)
 
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So Bob Smith is not an "expert" on Lehman engines???

When it comes to fuel additives, obviously not. When it comes to the marinziation system Lehman designed for the Ford Dorset and Dover diesels, I think he is an expert since he worked for Lehman at the time and was involved in their marinization program. In years past he has given us advice on modifications to our FL120s that made sense and have proven to be excellent improvements.

However his stubborn adherence to the virtues of MMO have motivated us to seek second opinions on some of his other recommendations. Fortunately we have made contacts over the years who know as much if not more about the Dorset diesel than Bob does so a second opinion is easy to get. As a result we do not follow some of Bob's operating recommendations as they run counter to what we've learned in England.

Being an expert in some aspects of a subject does not automatically mean a person is an expert in all aspects, wouldn't you agree?
 
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Greetings,
Two things I remember in conversation with Mr. B. Smith. 1) Not necessary to add MMO to Lehmans but it wouldn't hurt anything if I did. 2) The 50 hr. oil change recommended in the manual for the injection pump is a misprint and a regime of 100 hr. oil changes is correct.
 
So Bob Smith is not an "expert" on Lehman engines???

His vast experience makes him an expert on diagnosing/solving problems with the FL 120 (et al) engine.
But I also have received bad advise from him on two occasions.

One was to trash my tranny because the oil sample results had iron content at 3500 ppm. He said it was trash. I rebuilt it and it's fine.

The other was to NOT replace my engine coolant circulation pump at 4000+ hours when I had all the coolant out of the engine. He tried to convince me to NOT buy a new one. That I should wait until it actually started to leak before I gave it a thought.
 
V"Whatever it was, it had to be related to the STP vastly increasing the viscosity of the 20-50 oil in the engine. This was a brand new engine so blow-by from worn rings would not have been a factor. Knocking is usually a timing issue but I don't see any way simply increasing the viscosity of the oil could affect the ignition timing unless the compression was somehow being affected which then made the ignition timing incorrect under load. So it's still a mystery to me.."

My Guess would be the rings were not able to scrape the thickened oil from the cylinder walls too well and the oil and fuel together caused pre ignition or detonation which you heard.
 
Those pesky real life experts...just cant trust'em...

And even worse are the European experts, heck their advice is hours old....:D

Asking experts for advice or pretty well established facts in their area of expertise is obviously 2 different things. The fine line between them is important and is the same for getting advice off the internet where posts include links to industry standards or best practices, or most other things.
 
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Hey - I'm an expert on a couple items... but not on boat items. On boats I'm just a lowly Guru such as TF has hundreds to chose from.

But be careful - There is a single Enigma amongst us. And, he supersede Guru on several counts... but not all counts! :thumb:

Happy Boat-Life (and TF) Daze - Art :D
 
Opinions should all be taken with some skepticism. TF or professional it really does not matter other than to those who think if they pay for something it has more value.
In the case of additives like MMO or other practices the vast majority of posts are based on limited sample size. Only after large number of samples are properly analyzed and all other variables are eliminated can some conclusion be reached with a reasonable degree of confidence. That someone has used XYZ product for years without problems doesn't prove anything any more than someone who smokes for years without problems.


OTOH a few busted knuckles or rounded nuts will quickly teach that box wrenches are safer and do a better job that open or adjustable wrenches. A small sample size provides meaningful data in that case. That opinion is worth considering by each reader.


I too have some trusted professional sources but even then I carefully question their answers. perhaps I'll learn something or perhaps they will.




Funny thing about these discussions is that engine makers require certain operating conditions when their engines are under warranty and they will pay for failure. Despite that people regularly operate outside those parameters when the cost of failure is on them and report no problems. Who knows better the maker or the owner?
 
Marin,
Not going to quote your post but I'm quite sure you discovered STP works. Every time you used it your engine knocked. If you do it three times it's scientifically valid. But I'm sure the knocking was combustion .. not mechanical .. as FF suggested.

Funny you should mention Castrol 20W50. The guy I bought the little car from was the original owner (his wife) and she/he used Castrol 10W30 for 270K miles. They took it to a garage for all (every 3000) oil changes and the garage put in "Risoline" .. an additive that is essentially SeaFoam. Extremely high detergent. As soon as I switched to 20W50 (w/o the Risoline) my clutch stopped slipping. The rear main seal was probably worn out and oil was leaking onto the clutch. With the 20W50 oil the leaking stopped or slowed enough to allow the clutch to start working again most of the time. Lucky me.

Am I equating the mechanic for my Nissan to Bob Smith? Definitely. Neither engine or engines need or needed the additives and in one case WAY down the road (literally) a problem occurred from using the additive.

But my point is that mechanics are great and we should pay them well for what they do but they are not engineers. Their knowledge is limited and their exposure to science is usually much more limited so it's not uncommon for subjective advice to come from mechanics at times. But I usually listen to them closely but also usually question what they say. Lots of things mechanics said in the past has been thorally debunked now.
 
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i Only use Marvel Mystery Oil to help free up stuck valves, lifters and rings in engines that have sat for awhile. Diesels will burn it when squirted into the intake to give dry cylinders and rings a bit of extra oil to seal when turning over. Other than that, it doesn't do much. It's good for getting old engines going and kinda flushing out the old oil and crud. Then change oil and get back on a normal lube and fuel schedule. I've done this with many gas and diesel engines over the years. Regular use of MMO once up and running regularly doesn't do anything that I've seen.

Kevin
DITTO! My first experience with MMO was in 1970 when I had a sailboat with a converted flathead jeep Universal 75HP gas enging. The valves were all burned and I was broke and it would not start- a volunteer mechanic remover the head and valves and did best he could lapping them. He replacedthe head and valves and had me turn over engine while he poured a steady stream of WWO into it. It started! and ithh only 10PSI on 2 cylinders, he kept pouring it in making a big whit cloud. Engine ran for next 2 years ok! Since then Ive been doing MMO and Im now 81. Going to put 2 quarts in my Lexus tomorrow!
 
As Eric stated, MMO is a good cutting oil. I like to use it as a honing oil when I sharpen my pocket knife. I have no opinion of it as a fuel additive.
 
Can you tell us the date of the study?

Thanks Gordon

For years I too used that study/testing as a shining light in my efforts to protect my diesels, only to have a trusted source say it was a flawed test...something to do with how they either did or measured scuffing (IIRC).

So like many things in life.... read everything, digest what you can, roll the dice on what makes sense to you and hope for the best....because any on source of info...including straight from an engine manufacturer isn't necessarily complete or even as accurate as it needs to be to apply to individuals and how they run tneir engines.
 
MSDS sheets for additive products can be very revealing. Often they are almost entirely a "filler" product. Sometimes there is also a tiny fraction of a percent "magic goo".

They have new names for MSDS sheets now. A simple search will find them.

Rudolph Diesel reportedly set out to invent an engine that would burn agricultural waste products as fuel. He did, but I think the myths are far larger than the reality. An engine expected to run for thousands of hours needs clean air, oil and fuel. Keep it clean. OT: Keep your blood clean too.
 
PSN

And, that cited study had bio diesel as the number one additive. Which then raises the question as to who really paid for the study?

The diesel fuel tested was not a final refinery product thus had no additives at all. Why not use refiner's data as to how lubricity is enhanced for real world final users?

The time period for the study, about 12 years ago, was a tough time for the pickup truck and auto diesel builders. EPA mandates had screwed down diesel emissions to a very low level. Guess what, the foundation for diesel gate was laid. Nefarious chip programming was born.
 
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Yep...Rick sent me an email after I once posted a link to that study.

Made my tiny brain hurt after about paragraph 2 with the tech talk.

Wish I had 1/1000 the engineering background and comprehension he has..... a fabulous mentor and "keep me in the know" friend.... best part...always has links or sources for me to follow up with so there is no doubt he too has come up with more than just a personal experience or two or a fact low opinion.
 

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