RePack or Dripless Shaft Seals?

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So, ASD will be pulled in two weeks. I understand the repacking proceedures, well almost, but still have a few questions.


Here is what I know so far:

  • Loosed the gland fitting and clean out all the old packing.
  • Inspect the shaft for gouging.
  • Englund Marine tells me to bring in a piece of the old packing and they will know what size I need, but I am still going to do the drill bit procedure.
  • Place the new packing around the shaft to size, cut with very sharp razor blade at a 45 degree angle.
  • Place first seal cut at 12 o'clock and push seal back into the stuffing box using a piece of PVC pipe.
  • Cut the next seal as above, but alien the cut at 6 o'clock
So questions:
  1. How much packing do I use? 3, 4 times or more?
  2. Once packed how do you first adjust the gland? Tight or somewhat snug?
  3. I know you have to have the boat in the water to properly adjust the gland, but do you tighten it until no leaks, then when under way re-adjust with in drip every so many ???? and making sure the shaft stays cool.
  4. I was told that the shaft should leak just a little while underway, but no drips stationary.
Thank you for all the advice. This is my first time doing this, so I will try and take picks too.- Tom
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction said:
So, ASD will be pulled in two weeks. I understand the repacking proceedures, well almost, but still have a few questions.



So questions:
  1. How much packing do I use? 3, 4 times or more?
  2. Once packed how do you first adjust the gland? Tight or somewhat snug?
  3. I know you have to have the boat in the water to properly adjust the gland, but do you tighten it until no leaks, then when under way re-adjust with in drip every so many ???? and making sure the shaft stays cool.
  4. I was told that the shaft should leak just a little while underway, but no drips stationary.
Thank you for all the advice. This is my first time doing this, so I will try and take picks too.- Tom
Click to expand...

1) It depends. Count how many rings come out.

2-3) If you are using real GFO pack, which you should be IMO, tighten just till it stops dripping. And then do the final adjustments while you are running. If it starts dripping underway, tighten till it just stops dripping and check the temp of the box at cruising speed with your hand or an IR temp gun

4) With GFO it doesn't have to leak period as long as it's running cool.
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction said:
So, ASD will be pulled in two weeks. I understand the repacking proceedures, well almost, but still have a few questions.


Here is what I know so far:

  • Loosed the gland fitting and clean out all the old packing.
  • Inspect the shaft for gouging.
  • Englund Marine tells me to bring in a piece of the old packing and they will know what size I need, but I am still going to do the drill bit procedure.
  • Place the new packing around the shaft to size, cut with very sharp razor blade at a 45 degree angle.
  • Place first seal cut at 12 o'clock and push seal back into the stuffing box using a piece of PVC pipe.
  • Cut the next seal as above, but alien the cut at 6 o'clock
So questions:
  1. How much packing do I use? 3, 4 times or more?
  2. Once packed how do you first adjust the gland? Tight or somewhat snug?
  3. I know you have to have the boat in the water to properly adjust the gland, but do you tighten it until no leaks, then when under way re-adjust with in drip every so many ???? and making sure the shaft stays cool.
  4. I was told that the shaft should leak just a little while underway, but no drips stationary.
Thank you for all the advice. This is my first time doing this, so I will try and take picks too.- Tom
Click to expand...

First off, don't sweat it too much. If you are thinking this is a big deal, it really isn't. And if you don't get the results you need, you can start over without much time lost.

1. 3-4 times should be just fine. I'd probably do 3. There is limited space in there.

2. I would go with somewhere in between. Basically tight but not as tight as humanly possible.

3. Yes. I have even had where there were no drips and the shaft stayed cool. I don't see anything wrong with that. I have also heard 1 drip per minute while not underway.

4. Ideally, yes, you were told correctly. The big deal here is that it is not slinging water all over the place while underway.

Another trick is that if your shaft is in a hard to reach place, like inside of the keep with space restrictions, I just used a hammer and a chisel or screw driver. Put the chisel into the nut and hammer away....whether tightening or loosening. Sometimes one is not able to get a wrench on it otherwise. If you can, great. But the hammer and chisel method always served me well. My past 2 boats have had dripless though.
 
...tighten just till it stops dripping. And then do the final adjustments while you are running... If it starts dripping underway, tighten till it just stops dripping and check...QUOTE]

I think he meant, go out and run the boat, stop the boat and make adjustments. Do not try to make any adjustments while underway, running or while the engine is in gear. Don't ask me how I know. :)
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Baker's right, don't over think it.
What comes out may not go back in. You don't know how many times it has been tightened up and there could be an extra turn or two added from original. You'll know when it's enough.
No PVC pipe, no sweat, just use the gland to push the rings in.
Maybe not go 12-6 cause the third ring would be back at 12. Go 12-3-6 or close to. Whatever. Nothing is really critical here except tightness when it's all done.
No spray and no heat.
You'll be doing this for a living soon.
 
Larry M said:
...tighten just till it stops dripping. And then do the final adjustments while you are running... If it starts dripping underway, tighten till it just stops dripping and check...QUOTE]

I think he meant, go out and run the boat, stop the boat and make adjustments. Do not try to make any adjustments while underway, running or while the engine is in gear. Don't ask me how I know. :)
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Can be done right at the dock without unhitching.
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All boats will wiggle and change a bit under way.

We have a deck inspection hatch over the stuffing box and adjust the packing underway to barely not drip.

Seldom is the temp much above water temp, although heat comes from the ER and down the shaft..
 
We boated on rivers around St Louis where gritty water took a toll on shafts and packing . Don't know how Columbia and Delta are in this regard but a good look at your shaft at pullout time gives you a monitoring point.

On large slurry pumping systems filtered gland seal water was a must. I'd guess rivers and drip less systems to be incompatible for this gritty water reason alone. Otherwise I'd be the loner and consider drip less. After 10 years all parts on my drip lees were replaced per the book, old stuff that came off was pristine.
 
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Go get a drill bit and chuck it into your drill and pull the trigger. Look straight on at the end of the bit while its spinning and take note the perceived size of the spinning bit. Now repeat the exercise, but chuck the bit very slightly off center. Note that while spinning, you essentially have a larger diameter. This is precisely the situation with your shaft. Its slightly off center, and when it spins it will "expand" in size. That perceived expansion will cause a leak in your packing, because it represents a gap. That's why shaft alignment is so important, because it's the only real way to make your packing really work well and run cool.

So do this. Go stuff your packing gland. Don't get it too tight as it's rather difficult to loosen up packing once it's been compacted. Just backing off the nut won't do it, so just avoid getting it too tight to begin with. If your packing rings are the right size but too thick to easily go into the gland, a trick is to gently flatten them ever so slightly with a hammer. When you put your gland on, tighten it to hand tight and go maybe a quarter turn more. If not a nut type gland, basically just seat the packing without compacting it. If the boat is not in the water, launch.

At rest in the water, tighten the gland until it just stops dripping, then just a bit more. You can go run the boat and seat the packing in a bit, and observe the drip rate when running. Once the shaft stops turning you should have little drippage that goes to nothing after the shaft sits for awhile and the packing expands. Basically after a hour it should have no dripping.

You have just adjusted your packing in a perfect world. Because in a perfect world, our shaft alignment is perfect. In reality, you likely see some water dripping, flinging, or even gushing when running. This will be exactly proportional to the quality of your entire running gear in concert with each other and it is the state of your running gear that will ultimately determine how your packing gland will respond next and whether you will be successful.

Ideally when running you want about a drip or two every minute to lubricate the packing for flax packing.dripless packing does not need it. You don't have to have the shaft spinning when you check as it will take a few minutes for packing to expand after you stop running, so you have time to check. Just tighten the gland, no more than about a quarter turn a time as you get close. If you have good shaft alignment, you will be done almost immediately. If not, put your hand on the shaft each time and the bad news is that the gland will get too hot before you eliminate the excess leakage. Stop before you score the shaft. Packing glands just won't fix alignment issues. Most of use will be somewhere in the middle with little to no leakage and acceptable gland temps. If you can't comfortably hold it, it's too hot.
 
Too much already said about the process. I will add only one thing. Nothing to do with the repacking or adjustment process themselves.

Packing, dry or not, adjusted well or not, will allow a fine water spray. Often not visible and can only be 'seen' with the use of a piece of paper which may take some time to wet out. Of course any box adjusted for a slow drip will spray but even the 'dry' ones will spray.

That fine spray travels and is often cause of rusting, sometimes heavy rusting of the coupling, the gear and any other steel components nearby.
It can be stopped from flying all over by the simple use of a beat up old, small fender cut up.

Cut the hanger ear off one end so there is a hole a bit bigger than the shaft. Cut off that holed section of fender long enough to clamp onto the packing nuts so it hangs over the shaft an inch or so. Split that piece of fender lengthwise and adjust the diameter so when wrapped around the packing nut there is a small gap at the bottom.

Using a clamp, wrap it over the nut and secure the fender piece. Arrange it so the gap is down.

That fine spray will collect on the inside of the fender and drop into the bilge, not spreading itself far and wide to cause rust.

I don't install this untill I'm satisfied about the drip rate, if needed, but even so it goes on once the initial adjustment is done. It only takes a few seconds to remove it when the packing needs an adjustment.

I have a nut driver in a bracket along with the packing nut wrenches within arms reach. I got fed up years ago digging through my tool boxes for the tools.

I've suggested this before in an older post which has now slid into the darkness of time.
 
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If you're worried about the amount of water coming in during repacking, get in the water and put a wax bowl ring around the prop shafts. No water will come in and they disappear as soon as your back under way.
 
Marin said:
If the packing gland is not dripping or is just barely dripping and the gland and log are running dead cold it's a pretty fair bet the packing is in good shape. I don't have to pull the pistons every year on a perfectly running engine to know that they're in good shape, either. Even my dog understands this fairly rudimentary logic.
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Here is a picture for your dog to ponder. 10+ year old flax packing pulled out of a cool running, slow dripping stuffing box. Came out in pieces. All dried out with no evidence of any wax/lube left in it. Shafts showed scoring.
 

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Well mother nature turned us back. Astoria with 21mph winds building to 35mph with gusts of 50mph. Try again in a few weeks.:banghead:
 
We did. We spent the night at Cathlamet WA the night before as the yard told us if the wind died down early in the morning, they would take us out. Cathlamet is about half way to Astoria. Just didn't work out and we had a nice little cruise.
 
KUDOS to Astoria Marina Boat Yard

KUDOs to Astoria yard! They made a safety call and I do appreciate the phone call so we wouldn't beat up the boat. Love their customer service.:thumb:
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction said:
We did. We spent the night at Cathlamet WA the night before as the yard told us if the wind died down early in the morning, they would take us out. Cathlamet is about half way to Astoria. Just didn't work out and we had a nice little cruise.
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Haha. See I just assumed you were heading out over the bar. Oops.
 
Hawgwash said:
Haha. See I just assumed you were heading out over the bar. Oops.
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Oh hell know. I don't have a death wish. Astoria is about 10 miles or so from the bar.

We came home and I pulled the steering cylinder to have new seals put in as she was dripping a bit. Shaft seal will wait until after Thanksgiving.
 
Well we are dry docked in Astoria OR. I realized I am now retired and don't have to wait until the weekend, so off to Astoria. Great cruise. Took us about 5 hours, by noon ASD was in the slings getting lifted out of the water. First thing I did was a walk around. The shafts, propos and zincs all looked excellent. I forgot how big my props are. The bottom is covered by slim, but we are in fresh water, besides we are not allowed to wash the bottom of the boat according to Oregon EPA.

I took the stbd shaft packing apart first. I am lucky as my shafts seals are very accessible. I did as recommended and checked with a drill bit, to measure the space between the shaft and housing. I have 2 1/4" shafts and it takes 1/2" packing. I bought the extraction tool which works out great! I pulled 9 packings out. Cleaned the shaft, housing and installed 6 new packings. I will tackle the port side tomorrow. I will also make some desired modifications to my swim platform.

I want to say thank you to all of you that offered advice and encouragement. It is greatly appreciated.-Tom
 

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You went to all that trouble and put old school flax packing back in! :banghead:

You should consider cleaning off the shaft and the stuffing box while you're at it. You can clean the two parts of the box with mild acid and a wire brush. Obviously wear protection. Then spray the box down with Boeshield or something like it.
 
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Thanks and thought I would try old school. I noticed both GTU and old style flax. I hope I am not back here saying "you told me so!"


I am debating on whether or not to tear down the port side. It isn't leaking and still has lots of adjustment left. Looking at as "If it is not broke don't fix it" type of thinking.
 
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Alaskan Sea-Duction said:
Thanks and thought I would try old school. I noticed both GTU and old style flax. I hope I am not back here saying "you told me so!"


I am debating on whether or not to tear down the port side. It isn't leaking and still has lots of adjustment left. Looking at as "If it is not broke don't fix it" type of thinking.
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Don't buy the GTU knock off packing. Buy the real GFO.

And I would do both boxes at the same time.

In fact I would pull out the flax packing you just put in, give of throw it away and start over with GFO in both boxes.

But that's just me.
 
The real GFO will not cause groves in the shafting , teflon does.


GFO will seal with quite worn shafts and does not require a constant leak to lubricate the bearing.
 
Capt.Bill11 said:
You went to all that trouble and put old school flax packing back in! :banghead:.
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Well, at least the boy gave it a shot.
Remember how much advice he got and how anxious he was through the first 100 posts in this thread.

Now he knows he can do it, he'll move into grade 2, I'm sure.

ASD, if you leave the flax in, keep your eye on it for a while as you will most likely need to adjust, if not add more.
How many came you? How many went back in?:D

Either way, good on you.
Now listen to Bill.
 
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My packing is also easy to get to and I've thought about changing to drip less type but I like the idea of being able to adjust, replace or just add a ring if need be. I think it's easier for me to live with what I have rather than change to a system that is a lot more work to repair if there is a problem.


Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
 
Well I'm not finished yet. Tomorrow when I get back in the water, I will tie up to the dock, run the engines at idle in gear for about 20 minutes to make adjustments.


The reason I went with regular flax. I got into a in depth conversation with a guy at Englund Marine here in Astoria. They had both the Teflon flax and the regular. He is 74 and he told me that for many many years he has used the regular flax. He has used the Teflon stuff and he had issues with it. He has always had good performance with regular flax and uses it exclusively in his fishing boats. These boats are ran farther and harder than my trawler will ever see. He convinced me.


I went back in to Englund this morning as I was set the take every thing out and use the GTU (GTC?) stuff. He told me I would be fine and was willing to come down to the yard and look at my installation. I showed him my pictures and told me I did a good job. He also told me that after our conversation two boat owners came in and wanted the regular flax and was cussing the Teflon stuff, why I am not sure.


I want to thank all of you as I do fill more comfortable with it now and really do appreciate all TF advice that was given. Thank you.......
 
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