Going to look at 2 boats. . .how do you figure what a fair offer is?

So! Checked out that Marine Trader 40 yesterday. I must say, I was fairly impressed. It looks like a fairly solid, no frills boat prime for a refit and guilt free customization If the price was right. . .If I were to entertain a bit of a project, I'm thinking in the $20k's, maybe high teens? Out of curiosity I sent an email to the broker asking how serious they were about selling. . .

Decks looked better than the Albin. Only a few bungs missing. Couple areas need recaulked. Under deck areas I could see, no screws penetrated.

Genny is shot

All the windows need to be rebuilt/rebedded

Needs non-skid paint

Pulpit is cracked

Fuel tanks are original, but from the parts I could see looked pretty good. Of course, it's the parts you can't see. . .

Engine needs to be scrubbed and touched up

Diesel fuel in the bilge. I couldn't find a leak, assume a spill?

Oven works but is a crap pile.

Fridge works but is old and stinks

Battery bank is older

Thru hulls operated, surprisingly! handles were rusty.

New hoses and clamps scattered about. At least someone was doing something. . .

Needs a stem to stern, top to bottom scrubbing!

I like the room and the layout. And I like the walk around decks and line of sight around the boat from the flybridge. Thoughts?

cool beans said:

So! Checked out that Marine Trader 40 yesterday. I must say, I was fairly impressed. It looks like a fairly solid, no frills boat prime for a refit and guilt free customization If the price was right. . .If I were to entertain a bit of a project, I'm thinking in the $20k's, maybe high teens? Out of curiosity I sent an email to the broker asking how serious they were about selling. . .

Decks looked better than the Albin. Only a few bungs missing. Couple areas need recaulked. Under deck areas I could see, no screws penetrated.

Genny is shot

All the windows need to be rebuilt/rebedded

Needs non-skid paint

Pulpit is cracked

Fuel tanks are original, but from the parts I could see looked pretty good. Of course, it's the parts you can't see. . .

Engine needs to be scrubbed and touched up

Diesel fuel in the bilge. I couldn't find a leak, assume a spill?

Oven works but is a crap pile.

Fridge works but is old and stinks

Battery bank is older

Thru hulls operated, surprisingly! handles were rusty.

New hoses and clamps scattered about. At least someone was doing something. . .

Needs a stem to stern, top to bottom scrubbing!

I like the room and the layout. And I like the walk around decks and line of sight around the boat from the flybridge. Thoughts?

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hey cool beans
which mt40 was this one?

Of course, there a couple spots in closets with water stains. . .I couldn't for the life of me figure out where they were coming from/could have come from? It does look like a couple decks drains area leaking back aft. . .

What is wrong with this one??? And it is in Va. too!!! It's only $15k more than that Hatteras and you have WAY more than $15k worth of work to do....not to mention your time and hassle. Are you looking for something to piddle around on or are you looking for a boat??? This boat appears to be almost turn key. AND NO EXTERIOR TEAK!!!! Buy the boat...kick back...and relax. Unless of course you want to work on boats....

1986 Chris Craft Catalina 381 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Greetings,
1986 Chris Craft with 30 year old VOLVOS. I'd almost take a broken Lehman over a running Volvo.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
1986 Chris Craft with 30 year old VOLVOS. I'd almost take a broken Lehman over a running Volvo.

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Have you seen the boats he is considering????? He is basically talking about rebuilding boats and putting a lot of money/sweat equity into a boat worth no more than what he bought it for. I think I'd take my chances on the Volvos and a clean turn key boat versus recoring/UNteaking decks, replacing generators, rebuilding engines, rebedding/replacing windows, repanelling interior teak.....his lists go on and on. Every boat in my signature was American built. And not a single one of them have/had leaky windows. I would imagine that to be the case with the Chris Craft as well. I have no idea why the Asians have not figured out how to build a window that doesn't leak.
Not only that, he mentioned that he liked the flush deck layout....here it is!!! There just aren't many FD out there in this size and price range.

Baker, there is a sick part of me that likes the idea of a project (the right kind of project). Finding a blank canvas of a boat is almost exciting. Would I actually buy this boat? Not sure. . .that is a LOT to think about. . .I still consider all this a learning experience. The Albin, and this particular boat, I spent the time going over to report back my findings. . .to get an idea of what they may actually be worth and if my own determinations were close.

I've been on a Catalina 381 that is next door. Gas powered, turn key. Everything I want in a live aboard, but it just didn't do anything for me. . .easily forgettable. I do appreciate the suggestion though.

The Flush deck Hatteras and MT 40 both got the gears turning. I'm thinking about them. . .just, does the math add up? And if not. . .I have 2 types of boat to search for

cool beans said:

Baker, there is a sick part of me that likes the idea of a project (the right kind of project).

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HAHAHA....I kinda figured that!!! Good luck!!!

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
1986 Chris Craft with 30 year old VOLVOS. I'd almost take a broken Lehman over a running Volvo.

Click to expand...

As a previous Volvo owner (and never again) I'm with you

cool beans said:

So! Checked out that Marine Trader 40 yesterday. I must say, I was fairly impressed. It looks like a fairly solid, no frills boat prime for a refit and guilt free customization

Only a few bungs missing. Couple areas need recaulked.
Genny is shot
All the windows need to be rebuilt/rebedded
Needs non-skid paint
Pulpit is cracked
etc etc etc


I've been on a Catalina 381 that is next door. Gas powered, turn key. Everything I want in a live aboard, but it just didn't do anything for me. . .easily forgettable. I do appreciate the suggestion though.

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Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, you enjoyed the play?

Do you like the layout better, same as, or less than the Hatteras flush deck models?


Ref the Chris Catalina 381 suggestion -- and Volvos aside -- what is it about the layout that's different from the Hatts? IOW, why do the Hatts grab you, and the Chris doesn't? Changeable?


FWIW, if you intend to travel with the boat, diesels vs. gas should get some analysis. Were it me, I might risk Volvo diesels... maybe... given a decent survey return from a Volvo specialist. Maybe.


BTW, are you only looking at nearby boats? Or considering many boats on the east coast? Or the whole east coast? Or...? I see lots of Hatt DCs on yachtworld...


-Chris

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
1986 Chris Craft with 30 year old VOLVOS. I'd almost take a broken Lehman over a running Volvo.

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I was thinking a paddle would be more reliable than Volvo... and cheaper to repair to boot!

So, broker emailed me back and said he could push for the mid $30's. Not low enough for me. I'm not sure what an acceptable price would be. . .but I'm passing

I'm not sure about Volvo reliability, but I've read repair parts for old Volvo's are rare as hens teeth.

ranger42c said:

Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, you enjoyed the play?

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I get it

Do you like the layout better, same as, or less than the Hatteras flush deck models?

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Interesting question. . .I'm leaning towards the MT. Lets see:

-Salon is more open/modern, with galley down on the Hatteras.
-MT captains quarters wins hands down. More storage, no double beds.
-Engine room access on the MT is much better (at least single engine). 8v53's on the Hatts are the size of Smart cars, and there's two of them!
-FD Hatts have a covered "back porch" that is accessible without having to actually walk around outside. I like to sit outside and watch it rain. . .
-Low side and aft deck of the MT is much more suitable for taking people out fishing. Since I wont be sailing anymore, this is important. Fishing from the FD is doable, just really hard to land a 50lb drum. . .
-MT has better steering gear access
-MT has a better master head
-Hatt is less exterior maintenance and better dock condo in my eyes
-MT is more exterior maintenance and better going out and using boat in my eyes.

Ref the Chris Catalina 381 suggestion -- and Volvos aside -- what is it about the layout that's different from the Hatts? IOW, why do the Hatts grab you, and the Chris doesn't? Changeable?

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Compared to the Hats and MT (or any TT), the 381 is quite cramped and small inside. The galley layout eats up a lot of salon space. The king size bed eats up all the floor space in the master cabin. The forward cabin isn't much better than a sailboat. Shower is a small stall. Outside the decks aren't useful for anything other than tying up. The "cockpit" helm area felt crowded with just myself and the seller standing around. It was quite disappointing to me for something over 38ft long and 14ft wide

FWIW, if you intend to travel with the boat, diesels vs. gas should get some analysis. Were it me, I might risk Volvo diesels... maybe... given a decent survey return from a Volvo specialist. Maybe.

Click to expand...

Still working on this one. If/when the right boat finds me, I probably wouldn't blink too much if it was gas. I don't currently have much in the way of travel plans, but if I HAD the capability of 4mpg. . .I probably would travel more

BTW, are you only looking at nearby boats? Or considering many boats on the east coast? Or the whole east coast? Or...? I see lots of Hatt DCs on yachtworld...


-Chris

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Trying to keep it local. Whatever I can see in a day trip. If I was smitten by a boat several states away, I would go look. It's right now I've been trying to look at variety of local boats till I get a feel for what I really want. And of course get a feel for self survey, run things by you guys on what to look for, etc.

Greetings,
Mr. cb. a shot in the dark but...http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s9/1977-thompson-trawlers-51-a-5953.html#post83979
May still be for sale and only an hour's drive from Norfolk.
Could be the "right kind of project". As far as I know, both mains were working as well as the genny and I have seen it underway (it moves). Needs paint REALLY badly but with some elbow grease....

cool beans said:

I get it

Interesting question. . .I'm leaning towards the MT. Lets see:


Compared to the Hats and MT (or any TT), the 381 is quite cramped and small inside.

Still working on this one. If/when the right boat finds me, I probably wouldn't blink too much if it was gas. I don't currently have much in the way of travel plans, but if I HAD the capability of 4mpg. . .I probably would travel more

Trying to keep it local. Whatever I can see in a day trip. If I was smitten by a boat several states away, I would go look. It's right now I've been trying to look at variety of local boats till I get a feel for what I really want. And of course get a feel for self survey, run things by you guys on what to look for, etc.

Click to expand...

Hope you've realized most of my "questions" are simply meant to fertilize your own analysis.



-Chris

cool beans said:

Baker, there is a sick part of me that likes the idea of a project (the right kind of project). Finding a blank canvas of a boat is almost exciting. Would I actually buy this boat? Not sure. . .that is a LOT to think about. . .I still consider all this a learning experience. The Albin, and this particular boat, I spent the time going over to report back my findings. . .to get an idea of what they may actually be worth and if my own determinations were close.

Click to expand...

Cool Beans, "my two cents worth and some food for thought on your two project boats". Regarding the Albin and damage to bottom of paneling along the floor in the Vberth area, this is common. It's rarely from flooding but rather from water being wicked up off the floor due to the leaky hatch above and forgetting to close it multiple times over it's 30+ year life. That said, I realize the Albin is now out due to headroom issue.

The MT appears to be in reasonable project condition and if your glassing over the decks anyway, the current condition of the teak is irrelevant, although they appear to have reasonable life left. The water stains inside the closets on outside walls is invariably from leaky teak decks or possibly rub rail joint. Problem will likely disappear when decks are glassed over or re-caulked.

The wall paper they stuck on in the aft cabin is most likely hiding similar paneling issues.

Never "assume" that diesel in the bilge is from anything but a leaky tank until proven otherwise and make your offer accordingly.

Consider the questionable rebuilt engine worthless info until proven otherwise

The new prop shaft & bearing and what appears to be (?) new canvas means the owner has recently spent up to 10K on the boat so is not likely to be too flexible but these are expenses you won't have.

If it has been in a covered slip for years, any deck moisture readings by the surveyor are worthless. However, a spongy rotted deck core will show up much worse after it has dried.

If it were me I would make a list of "everything" wrong/broken/dated along with estimated cost to repair and submit with my offer. In my humble opinion and only after confirming non-leaking fuel tanks, if you could get it for 25-30K and your handy, I think it would be a solid project boat that you could still use and enjoy while puttering about with repairs. As far as how many $$ you can spend on repairs and still bail out goes, (pardon the pun) consider how much YOU would pay for the boat if everything you would want to do was already done.

Well, I already suggested the most I would spend to the broker after pointing some stuff out. He said he could push for the mid $30's.

So assuming $35k for the boat:
$10k for a new genny
$5k to redo the deck and paint
$5k "nickle & dime" stuff
$3.5k windlass & anchor
$2.5k new house battery bank and start bats
$7k for some descent canvas or a DIY hardtop

Well that's a cold bucket of water! $68k. . .quick estimate, me doing most of the work. . .years of my free time and still no bow thruster. . .

Ok, let me throw another example out there and see if this finished boat is worth what he's asking? math above says I should be grateful he is giving it away. . .but I've got the idea it doesn't work like that.

He's asking $59k
1979 Marine Trader Double Cabin Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Looks like there is something there worth some money!!
But, I don't actually know anything.

And--"new" and 2006 used in the same sentence wrt engine and genset doesn't compute.
"Newer" maybe but no longer anywhere near "new"

cool beans said:

Well, I already suggested the most I would spend to the broker after pointing some stuff out. He said he could push for the mid $30's.

So assuming $35k for the boat:
$10k for a new genny
$5k to redo the deck and paint
$5k "nickle & dime" stuff
$3.5k windlass & anchor
$2.5k new house battery bank and start bats
$7k for some descent canvas or a DIY hardtop

Well that's a cold bucket of water! $68k. . .quick estimate, me doing most of the work. . .years of my free time and still no bow thruster. . .

Ok, let me throw another example out there and see if this finished boat is worth what he's asking? math above says I should be grateful he is giving it away. . .but I've got the idea it doesn't work like that.

He's asking $59k
1979 Marine Trader Double Cabin Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

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That boat looks pretty good! Will you be disappointed if it is in good shape???

You're a fool if you don't take a run at that boat.

Capt.Bill11 said:

You're a fool if you don't take a run at that boat.

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There are indications in the pics that boat has had care and love(or a very good detail job). Teak exterior windows still varnished after 35 years is indicative. The RPM advisory on the tach made me wonder if it had been in charter. The advert is specific about the engine. Has to be worth a look.

I doubt very much it was chartered. To cluttered. I think the owner is just label happy.

Capt.Bill11 said:

You're a fool if you don't Run From that boat.

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Fixed it for ya Bill!! Usually Pics can make a dog look beautiful....Not so much in this case.

Heron said:

Fixed it for ya Bill!! Usually Pics can make a dog look beautiful....Not so much in this case.

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I take it you've personally seen this boat? The pictures don't reflex the it's current condition?

1979 Marine Trader Double Cabin Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

One question I would ask is why is there a RV type AC unit on it?

Jimbo2015 said:

One question I would ask is why is there a RV type AC unit on it?

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That's not to uncommon. And some people might think it's a plus.

New motor, new genny, decks already glassed, if the tanks have been replaced and its not covered with blisters, I agree with the others. You found your boat.

I'm not going to read all of the posts and there is plenty to the art of buying a boat that I couldn't cover here.
First though, I don't know where the 20% came from. We bought a 1986 43' Albin sundeck in 2010 that was originally listed for $69,9K as a 30 day price. Several months later the price went to $99,9K (change in broker). After a walk thru survey, which suggested an $80K value I made a $45K offer and got her for $55K. I think the boat found me. Motivated seller & buyer?
Someone suggested you aren't going to be friends with the seller so you need to get the boat as inexpensively as possible so you can infuse the extra money you saved into the boat. You will find plenty of places to do that.
Good luck with your search.

Heron said:

Fixed it for ya Bill!! Usually Pics can make a dog look beautiful....Not so much in this case.

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. . .not sure I understand?

And Thanks Nepidae.

Baker, I wouldn't be disappointed. Just looking at the pics, there are plenty of projects. Just looking at the blotchiness of the teak, I betcha $5 it's a quick Cetol job over old failing finish. . .cracks in the ceiling in the head. . .refinishing of the inside wood work.

Not having to redo the decks though, I think I will live

Sent an inquiry to the Broker. We shall see!

Thanks all!

Good luck mate!!! Let us know how it turns out!!!