Cutlass bearing replacement

Approximatly how long between cutlass bearing changes? Do you remove the shafts to change them? I ask this because I just changed mine and that hurt financially, I bought the boat (Defever 49 CPMY) in April Used it took 6 bearing
Parts $877.54 labor $1116.00 Zinks $199.50 Labor to remove and replace shafts $1915.80 this seems extremely high!
Any opinions!

Wataworld said:

Approximatly how long between cutlass bearing changes? Do you remove the shafts to change them? I ask this because I just changed mine and that hurt financially, I bought the boat (Defever 49 CPMY) in April Used it took 6 bearing
Parts $877.54 labor $1116.00 Zinks $199.50 Labor to remove and replace shafts $1915.80 this seems extremely high!
Any opinions!

Click to expand...

Yep big boats big bills.
Got a few of em.
But back to your question. I've got almost 1500 hours on mine with no real signs of wear.

I replaced mine this year. It had been in the boat since 1973. It was still OK, but I had the shaft out.

For reference

1. Pulling the shaft - 30 minutes
2. Remove old cutless bearing - 1 hour (it was stubborn)
3. Install new cutless - 30 minutes

Cost - cutless bearing $70
I also had the shaft trued and the coupler refaced. In addition I decided to replace the 40 year old stuffing box. This work came to about $200.

I'm about to do mine in Dunkirk.
I have the cutlass bearing £60.00, I'm also taking the opportunity to replace the stuffing box with a PSS seal as the shaft will be pulled. £ 275.00
A new plummer block (pillow block, mid shaft bearing) call it what you will from an industrial supplier was £19.00, (2 thirds cheaper than a marine supplier)
I will confirm the lift price and timing once I have the bill.
I do all my own work so no labour charges to add.

Cutless bearings usually last a long time but they can be damaged by out of true shafts, engine misalignment or even dinged props. Depending on size the approximate $150 per cutless bearing you paid is roughly the going retail. I replaced 2 last spring and for 1 3/4 shafts found them on line for $99 - $199 each. Depending on what exactly needed to be done to pull the shafts I can see 5 hrs or so labor to R & R the shafts and 6 bearings. Some more labor for the zincs. I don't think the total cost is so far out of line.

Ken

Wataworld said:

Approximatly how long between cutlass bearing changes? Do you remove the shafts to change them? I ask this because I just changed mine and that hurt financially, I bought the boat (Defever 49 CPMY) in April Used it took 6 bearing
Parts $877.54 labor $1116.00 Zinks $199.50 Labor to remove and replace shafts $1915.80 this seems extremely high!
Any opinions!

Click to expand...

If I am reading this right a $4K job to replace the cutlass bearings and zinks. That sounds really high even at the ridiculous rates of $100 per hour that yards charge. I would want to see a break down of the labor and material costs before paying. I would then check around to see if they were justifiable.

READY2GO said:

If I am reading this right a $4K job to replace the cutlass bearings and zinks. That sounds really high even at the ridiculous rates of $100 per hour that yards charge. I would want to see a break down of the labor and material costs before paying. I would then check around to see if they were justifiable.

Click to expand...

LOL come to Houston, and enjoy the unfettered shredding of your bank account.

I literally had a guy that was a "100 ton Captain" amp up his costs 50% of his initial estimate from merely listening to himself tell me how hard the job would be.

READY2GO said:

If I am reading this right a $4K job to replace the cutlass bearings and zinks. That sounds really high even at the ridiculous rates of $100 per hour that yards charge. I would want to see a break down of the labor and material costs before paying. I would then check around to see if they were justifiable.

Click to expand...

The costs are broken out.

what_barnacles said:

LOL come to Houston, and enjoy the unfettered shredding of your bank account.

I literally had a guy that was a "100 ton Captain" amp up his costs 50% of his initial estimate from merely listening to himself tell me how hard the job would be.

Click to expand...

You hired a "licensed captain " to do this job ? Isn't that like hiring a licensed taxi driver to do your brake work

I did this job by myself about five years ago. (Had a short assist from a yard guy to extract and reinsert the bare shafts). 44' OA, 2-15' x 2" shafts with three bearings each. Bearings today are priced at $720 from the original supplier. Shafts had to come out...remove props, zincs, flanges, stuffing boxes...replace tubes on stuffing boxes, reinstall all, repack stuffing boxes, reattach/realign shafts. Took me three long days. A helper to chase down and shuttle tools inside or outside the boat would have saved time, but this is a pretty big job requiring a lot of muscle. I wouldn't do it myself again..

Price seems about right to me. I have a single bearing on my 13' x 2.5" shaft. The bearing was 2.5" x 10", I think $350 for the bearing. Did most of the labor myself.

If everything is aligned proberly and you stay out of sandy shallow water, 5 to 10 thousand hours would be a reasonable life expectancy.....maybe more.

Ted

boatpoker said:

You hired a "licensed captain " to do this job ? Isn't that like hiring a licensed taxi driver to do your brake work

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He runs a repair yard as well as being a captain. I didnt hire him, he talked too much.

Capt.Bill11 said:

The costs are broken out.

Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe not. All we have been given are two totals, labor and parts. Maybe the op has more info and has not shared it, but if all he got was a bill with total labor and total parts I would want more. When I was in business and presented a bill it would have a list of materials and their cost and a list of the labor in hours per man per day and what was accomplished during that time. That is not too much to ask for. If the yard refuses to do that there is a serious problem.

A new plummer block (pillow block, mid shaft bearing) call it what you will from an industrial supplier was £19.00, (2 thirds cheaper than a marine supplier)

The Marine units are far more expensive as the good units can be rebuilt (bearing and both inner and outer races replaced) in place , with out removing the shaft.

They are a great bit of machining.

They usually have better seals so errant water will not cause an early failure.

http://www.pacificmarine.net/engineering/split-roller-bearings.htm

FF said:

A new plummer block (pillow block, mid shaft bearing) call it what you will from an industrial supplier was £19.00, (2 thirds cheaper than a marine supplier)

The Marine units are far more expensive as the good units can be rebuilt (bearing and both inner and outer races replaced) in place , with out removing the shaft.

They are a great bit of machining.

They usually have better seals so errant water will not cause an early failure.

http://www.pacificmarine.net/engineering/split-roller-bearings.htm

Click to expand...

I could be wrong but I think the OP was talking about replacing his underwater strut shaft bearings, not pillow blocks.

Wataworld said:

Approximatly how long between cutlass bearing changes? Do you remove the shafts to change them? I ask this because I just changed mine and that hurt financially, I bought the boat (Defever 49 CPMY) in April Used it took 6 bearing
Parts $877.54 labor $1116.00 Zinks $199.50 Labor to remove and replace shafts $1915.80 this seems extremely high!
Any opinions!

Click to expand...

Capt.Bill11 said:

I could be wrong but I think the OP was talking about replacing his underwater strut shaft bearings, not pillow blocks.

Click to expand...

they make a hyd. tool that pushes the cutless out without removing the shafts

"they make a hyd. tool that pushes the cutless out without removing the shafts"

I have used that tool - but he has 3 cutlass's per shaft.

READY2GO said:

Maybe, maybe not. All we have been given are two totals, labor and parts. Maybe the op has more info and has not shared it, but if all he got was a bill with total labor and total parts I would want more. When I was in business and presented a bill it would have a list of materials and their cost and a list of the labor in hours per man per day and what was accomplished during that time. That is not too much to ask for. If the yard refuses to do that there is a serious problem.

Click to expand...

You are correct Ready2go but I did not feel it necessary to outline all the other charges as I am not disputing them, I hit some thing hard and got a vibration so I had the 240" shafts straightened, the prop's reconditioned I even spoke to the surveyor and the original owner since the boat was out in April and surveyed I believed the cutlass bearing were checked so This is an unexpected cost's I am glad I did it though when talking to the original owner he said he had the 4 of them done 5 years ago then I told him their are 6 he did not know about the other 2 so they were original to the boat 16 years ago!
Gregg
PS
Thanks all for your responces, they are informative and I hope some one can use this input!

capt jerry said:

they make a hyd. tool that pushes the cutless out without removing the shafts

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Yea They have the tool but said they could not use it due to the design of the bearing it was conical at the ends

Gregg

smitty477 said:

"they make a hyd. tool that pushes the cutless out without removing the shafts"

I have used that tool - but he has 3 cutlass's per shaft.

Click to expand...

Right. Not sure if that boat has two struts per shaft and one at the hull exit, or if it's like our OA that has a long stainless steel stern tube with a bearing on each end...plus a strut bearing at the prop. On the OA, the most forward bearing is under the stateroom floor (accessible through a small hatch), and the middle bearing is about five feet aft at the other end of the tube. They both have to be tapped/driven out with a long (about eight feet) piece of pipe...a real chore to maneuver inside the engine room space. Fortunately it's a fresh water boat, so they popped out with little effort.

Speaking of hydraulic tools, I made a hydraulic prop puller from a large Harbor Freight hydraulic gear puller. Had to redrill the holes on the three hooks so they'd reach the hub on the prop, but that's it. The hydraulic cylinder clears the offset rudders by about half an inch. If the prop has been on the boat for a long time I have to heat the hub a bit with a MAP torch, but it works like a champ pulling 24" props on 2" shafts. . (Only for three blade props up to about a 2" shaft size as the hub gets too fat for the geometry of the puller if larger).

We have two bearings. One is where the shaft exits the hull, the other is inside the boat where the shaft leaves the open shaft log inside the boat. No struts. The outside one was changed when we bought the boat with around 800 hours because the rubber had expanded and was binding on the shaft. The bearings weren't too bad, probably around $100-$150 as best I recall. The original quote from the yard to replace it was quite high, as they said they needed to pull the shaft, which also requires dropping the rudder. My independent tech did it for 1 hour labor, as there was enough of the shell sticking out of the log to get a puller on it. We replaced the one inside the boat ourselves a couple years ago after the PSS water cooling line crimped and caused everything to overheat. According to the factory and other owners that one was going to require pulling the shaft (and dropping the rudder). We decided to try it first without pulling the shaft and got lucky as we were able to pull the shaft back just enough to change it without pulling the shaft or rudder. Actually, we didn't even haul the boat, did it in the slip. Only hard part was getting the coupling off the shaft. I guess labor all comes down to how much has to be disassembled, and every boat will be different (or in our case, two of the same boat can even be a little different).

Seems a about right.

Wataworld said:

Approximatly how long between cutlass bearing changes? Do you remove the shafts to change them? I ask this because I just changed mine and that hurt financially, I bought the boat (Defever 49 CPMY) in April Used it took 6 bearing
Parts $877.54 labor $1116.00 Zinks $199.50 Labor to remove and replace shafts $1915.80 this seems extremely high!
Any opinions!

Click to expand...

OK although it does seem a little high to y’all, Labor costs are just going to go up there’s a 90% deficiency and qualified labor coming into our field. Also it doesn’t seem like they’re going to be using a strut tool to remove the bearing. Which would cover the cost of probably 50 to 90%. The labor rate is about average now there are some less expensive yards going around but even in North Carolina inboard labor rates are about 145 an hour. In the Tampa Bay St. Petersburg area they’re running around 189 an hour and every year is just going to going to up. Depending on the vessel you have it could take up to nine hours per side plus the bearings. New set screws cleaning your prop while it’s off.Also you could always call around, and check quotes wherever you are.

That sounds high, but be that as it may...

I always advocate doing it yourself, almost any job. It may take twice as long as hiring it done, you may end up with some skinned knuckles and you may have to buy a tool you didn't think you would need. But anytime spent boating is good time. In the end you will know your boat that much better and be ready for next time.

pete

Wataworld. I'm shocked to hear your story, you probably realize by now you were well and truly ripped off.
As Pete Meisinger said its not that difficult and 9 hours each side ? He wouldn't be working for me very long before he got the boot !
Seriously, its not beyond a average DIY'er and as Pete said, you learn about your boat and get confidence in your own ability.
Remember. If a man made it, a man can fix it !
Cutlass bearings normally last about 15 years unless you cruise in sandy/muddy estuaries then you can reckon 8/10 years.
If you plan on keeping the boat then shop around for a replacement set of bearings if you have any difficulty pm me and you can get them direct from the maker in Derby, England.
Some folk remove the set screws then spend time cutting them out with an adapted hacksaw but you can easily make a drift to do the job in 5 minutes.
Its always a good idea when doing the job to get your shafts checked for 'true alignment', if unsure go to a hydraulic ram repair shop.
Personally I would fit a PSS shaft seal when refitting, use household dish washing up liquid to lubricate the shafts when you replace them.
Its too long winded to put a tutorial on here but you may find one on You Tube or ask a local TF'r to show you how its done.