What do you say?
https://vimeo.com/132245870
https://vimeo.com/132245870
He says inflateable PFDs suck
- Thread starter Hawgwash
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O C Diver
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I would agree with the video. The inflatables are for people who otherwise wouldn't wear one. Certainly can see having both on the boat and a passenger picking the inflatable in some situations and being requested to wear the non inflatable in others situations.
Ted
Ted
He's never worked a foredeck on a sailboat in crappy conditions when your glad to have D rings and a tether.
mbevins
Guru
His points are valid but the phrase " the right tool for the right job" comes to mind.
There are times when quite frankly i only want the inflatable. Like when I'm in the dink.
We keep both styles on board and use as appropriate. If we were in a heavy weather or sinking situation i would never grab the inflatables.
There are times when quite frankly i only want the inflatable. Like when I'm in the dink.
We keep both styles on board and use as appropriate. If we were in a heavy weather or sinking situation i would never grab the inflatables.
Bay Pelican
Moderator Emeritus
Anytime I go out on deck to check something or prepare the anchor for dropping while underway I put on an inflatable. If the boat were going down I would grab and wear the offshore unit.
We use inflatables when we're in the Whalers and when we're on Beachcomber going through a lock. They're comfortable to wear and provide protection against drowning if you fall overboard.
One big point I think he missed is that with inflatables they only count as a PFD if you're wearing them. In the dinghy, for example, they're not counted as a PFD if they're sitting on a seat not being worn.
No way we would wear a neoprene vest all day in our extreme heat. Yeah, the inflatable is a bit warm on a hot day but at least we have them on.
Like Marty mentioned, if the boat were going down I would not don an inflatable.
One big point I think he missed is that with inflatables they only count as a PFD if you're wearing them. In the dinghy, for example, they're not counted as a PFD if they're sitting on a seat not being worn.
No way we would wear a neoprene vest all day in our extreme heat. Yeah, the inflatable is a bit warm on a hot day but at least we have them on.
Like Marty mentioned, if the boat were going down I would not don an inflatable.
mbevins
Guru
Absolutely.
Had a situation on Labor Day weekend where guests were coming on our 21'CC . I asked them to bring Jackets as I didn't have enough for them as well as the other guests.
No problem. They show up with inflatables and toss them on the seat.
I'm sorry Mr. & Mrs. Guest but you'll have to wear them while we're under way. Of the 30 or so people that were club hopping with us (multiple boats) maybe 8 knew the requirement to wear it for it to count.
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Northern Spy
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Wifey B: Ok, first confession. I hate wearing any type PFD. They're all uncomfortable, and I think even more so to a woman than a man. Think about it. How comfy would it be for you men if it was worn just below the waist instead of the chest?
Now, I've tried a lot of PFD's. With the inflatables I've tried, basically for floating it seems to me, not doing anything simultaneously.
Ok, so when and for what? Well, here's the way I figure it. If it's calm and I'm just riding along, I'm not going to wear anything. Well, you know what I meant. But then....oh my.
No PFD.
So when I wear one and require others to do so is going to be out at sea and rough conditions. At that point then, seems to me that the best possible is what I want. That's not a Type III or even Type II. It's Type 1, Solas and USCG approved.
Now, if I was a bass fisher or other things maybe I'd have a need to wear the inflatables. I looked at the USCG Types and what they're designed for.
So, really type III's are just to help someone who goes overboard float till you can turn around and retrieve them. Type II's "will turn some unconscious wearers to a face-up position". Darn, double darn. Some? I don't want to be in the some group playing Russian roulette with a life jacket. No no no no no.
Now, I've tried a lot of PFD's. With the inflatables I've tried, basically for floating it seems to me, not doing anything simultaneously.
Ok, so when and for what? Well, here's the way I figure it. If it's calm and I'm just riding along, I'm not going to wear anything. Well, you know what I meant. But then....oh my.
No PFD. So when I wear one and require others to do so is going to be out at sea and rough conditions. At that point then, seems to me that the best possible is what I want. That's not a Type III or even Type II. It's Type 1, Solas and USCG approved.
Now, if I was a bass fisher or other things maybe I'd have a need to wear the inflatables. I looked at the USCG Types and what they're designed for.
Type I PFD - Off-Shore Life Jacket
This life jacket provides the most buoyancy and floats the best. It is reversible, easy to put on and designed to turn most people who are unconscious in the water from the face-down position to an upright and slightly backward position. It is effective in all types of water, especially where rescue is delayed.
Type II PFD - Near-Shore Buoyancy Vest
This life jacket is intended for calm, inland water or where a quick rescue is possible. Will turn some unconscious wearers to a face-up position in the water although the turning is not as definite as with a Type I PFD. This life jacket comes in several comfortable sizes and styles.
Type III PFD - Flotation Aid
Good for conscious wearers in calm, inland water or where a quick rescue is possible. Type III foam life vest offers same minimum buoyancy as Type II PFD, comes in many colors and sizes, and is most comfortable for continuous wear.
This life jacket provides the most buoyancy and floats the best. It is reversible, easy to put on and designed to turn most people who are unconscious in the water from the face-down position to an upright and slightly backward position. It is effective in all types of water, especially where rescue is delayed.
Type II PFD - Near-Shore Buoyancy Vest
This life jacket is intended for calm, inland water or where a quick rescue is possible. Will turn some unconscious wearers to a face-up position in the water although the turning is not as definite as with a Type I PFD. This life jacket comes in several comfortable sizes and styles.
Type III PFD - Flotation Aid
Good for conscious wearers in calm, inland water or where a quick rescue is possible. Type III foam life vest offers same minimum buoyancy as Type II PFD, comes in many colors and sizes, and is most comfortable for continuous wear.
So, really type III's are just to help someone who goes overboard float till you can turn around and retrieve them. Type II's "will turn some unconscious wearers to a face-up position". Darn, double darn. Some? I don't want to be in the some group playing Russian roulette with a life jacket. No no no no no.
I say that everyone has an opinion, and they're entitled to it
He makes a living on his opinions, so I'd expect it. Nothing here you can't find on Google. A complete list of USCG PFD types:
http://www.pfdma.org/choosing/types.aspx
I have a type I, III, Special Use type V, and an inflatable. I wear whats appropriate for the conditions/operation.
If I'm on the airboat for fun, I'm in generally in an inflatable.
If we're on a mission, training or otherwise, I'm in a special use type V tactical. I'll be happy to show him what "we" put in our pockets and why lol.
If you've ever been launched off a platform at speed to come to rest against whatever breaks your momentum, then the tactical versions benefits are obvious. Add to that kevlar panels and you're good to go!
When I'm U/W on anything else, it's conditions appropriate attire, or none at all, although the latter version doesn't work as well lol.
OTOH, anytime we're on or near the water, including the dock,, my precious 9 year old granddaughter is "always" stylishly adorned in a high visibility lime green Mustang type II, with (literally) all the bells, well ok, hydrostatic strobes, mirrors and whistles!!
I refuse to take a chance with her safety!
Bottom line is, as an adult, you're responsible for your own safety. If you don't wear something, it won't work. If the inflatable gets people to put something on, then I'm fine with it.
OD
cappy208
Guru
My understanding is that an inflatable is only useful to have you floating long enough so 'they' can find your body floating. It's a whole lot easier to find a floating body as opposed to a sunk one!
But in all reality, wearing an inflatable is preferable to wearing none.
But in all reality, wearing an inflatable is preferable to wearing none.
Cappy, I'm not sure where you heard that, but I doubt it's true. We own 6 inflatables, two on each boat. When we're on our Sea Ray we only wear them when we have to go through a lock. I will say that they are so comfortable that I've (unknowingly) kept it on for a couple of hours after leaving the lock. Would that happen with a neoprene vest? No way.
They're too bulky, too hot, just too damned uncomfortable.
Would I rely on an inflatable if I was going offshore? No way. I'd have a good quality offshore PFD that would hold my head up, keep my body heat in. That setting is not what inflatables were designed for.
Wifey B: Fall off the bow of your boat into icy cold water, (shivering from the thought) and an inflatable may very well save your life and allow someone to assist you out. Out fishing alone, and you're one of those peeing over the side types, you better have one on. Many struggle getting back in a boat after an unplanned dip. Those are things inflatables are good for. Cruising in rough seas, not.
mbevins
Guru
My Son single hands his 25' sailboat all the time.
When he started doing this I bought him a good inflatable as I knew he'd never wear a type 1 PFD.
He wears it every time he goes out.
And I sleep well.
When he started doing this I bought him a good inflatable as I knew he'd never wear a type 1 PFD.
He wears it every time he goes out.
And I sleep well.
I spend much of my time on the water alone. If the boat is in gear I ALWAYS have a Life-Tag on my person that will shut the engine down should I go overboard. I wear an inflatable if the seas are more than calm when out of the wheelhouse. I wear a neoprene vest if its snotty. Like others have indicated, wearing a neoprene vest on a 80 degree day would defeat the purpose of being out on the water. ( I don't have a neck like a tree stump) so my inflatable does not choke me.
chc
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Our crew, wife & I, are the only ones in our marina that routinely wear PFD's. Realistically, at our ages (70's), things can happen that we may not be able to react to quickly enough. Hence the auto inflatables. Too many folks, of all ages, drown with the PFD still in the boat.
questionmark
Senior Member
I singlehand our 40' sailboat regularly. I always wear a harness/ inflatable unit anytime I'm outside the cockpit, and sometimes in the cockpit when the weather gets up. I carry a whistle, mirror, and a PLB in the pockets. More for the harness than the PFD. I've got a series of jack lines and eyes to make it easier, and I wear a double tether.
We actually have the same rule when out together. Anyone leaving the cockpit wears a harness/ inflatable except the boy, who is legally required, and he wears his dinghy sailing PFD.
Offshore, I generally use the same harness / inflatable unit just because it's a bit more comfortable than my straight webbing harness with just a T-shirt. But I have no illusions that it's worth anything if i go over. Beyond helicopter range it's just to keep my remains afloat for closure, as I consider any PFD to be in those circumstances.
I almost went overboard one night late when I was getting ready to come back in the harbor. I was opening the gate and placing the fenders when a sneaker hit broadside and I was headed straight through the gate I just opened. Luckily I managed to tangle myself in the lifeline on my way through and didn't fall in. Ever since then I ways clip in, even for the seeming innocuous tasks like kicking over the fenders. I figured I could make the swim, but the boat would have been on the rocks.
I'm not sure what we'll do when we get a powerboat. Of all the ones I've looked at so far, not one of them had provisions for jack lines.
cappy208
Guru
In response to everyone thinking about inflatables.
Have any one of you actually gone over with one? Have you tried one out?
I did. I was disgusted with how it floated me (unless you like to do the backstroke and pinch your nose).
It is a GREAT benefit if you go overboard with nothing else on. But they are not the same as a head up life preserver. Try it. You may be surprised. I use three types depending upon season.
The inflatable is only summer /inshore use for me. The absolute most useless types are the waist inflatable packs. Nothing like having a inflated horseshoe dangling off your hip sideways.
Have any one of you actually gone over with one? Have you tried one out?
I did. I was disgusted with how it floated me (unless you like to do the backstroke and pinch your nose).
It is a GREAT benefit if you go overboard with nothing else on. But they are not the same as a head up life preserver. Try it. You may be surprised. I use three types depending upon season.
The inflatable is only summer /inshore use for me. The absolute most useless types are the waist inflatable packs. Nothing like having a inflated horseshoe dangling off your hip sideways.
I have tried mine to get the feel of it, I would much prefer to have my neoprene vest if I wind up in the water. That said, my primary concern is if I'm knocked out in the process of going over. I don't have much body fat and sink like a stone, just need something to keep me afloat till I regained consciousness. If my boats gonna sink I'll Gumby UP.
Good!cappy208 said:
When I posted this, I was hoping there would be some real testimonials.
With them being rechargeable, I think I would have wasted the initial fill right away as a test, just to see ho they did or didn't work.
cappy208
Guru
I was actually suspicious of the aspirin pill used as the trigger.
It shot off like a rocket. Sort of removed the worry about the 'if'. But the how is what is dumb. Yeah, I know the "if it wasn't worn, it would be useless" but I was surprised at how low I floated in it. I think I was floating around my ears deep. If the weather (in the pool) was rough I would have been spitting water out my nose to keep my breath. Granted, I'm fat. No excuses. But a Stearns wearable work vest floats me head up, and is almost as comfortable as a WestMarine inflatable. The real wake up call here is to actually go and TRY out your inflatable in the water. The results may surprise you what you expect versus what you find out! They sell a recharge kit. Its cost is worth the education.
It shot off like a rocket. Sort of removed the worry about the 'if'. But the how is what is dumb. Yeah, I know the "if it wasn't worn, it would be useless" but I was surprised at how low I floated in it. I think I was floating around my ears deep. If the weather (in the pool) was rough I would have been spitting water out my nose to keep my breath. Granted, I'm fat. No excuses. But a Stearns wearable work vest floats me head up, and is almost as comfortable as a WestMarine inflatable. The real wake up call here is to actually go and TRY out your inflatable in the water. The results may surprise you what you expect versus what you find out! They sell a recharge kit. Its cost is worth the education.
Testing in a pool is a waste of a cylinder. I flopped off the boat in 2-3 foot "Buzzards Bay" , Does what I expected, although I did release the strap and remove it before reboarding. It may be that some are not comfortable in the water and the constricted movement makes being in the water even more unnerving. I routinely go swimming offshore and am at home in the water.
cappy208
Guru
How did your face end up when you relaxed? Mine was about ear level. I only hope I am conscious when I enter the water.
I would consider the position somewhat unnatural, good visibility right and left and a little strain to look straight forward. That said , once you relax it is very acceptable. Keep in mind as I said previously, I'm lean 6 ft 170.
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Cappy, if you saw my earlier post, you'll know my answer.
Yes, I've tested everything I wear. I want to know "THAT" it works, "HOW" it works, and any issues it may create.
You'll also note that I have several types. I base my usage on the operation and the weather/sea conditions, not the time of year.
We teach various forms of self rescue, as well as PFD usage in one of our courses.
I'm ok with the inflatable for what I use it for.
For anything serious or prolonged, I want something else
