New Long Thin, Hyper-Efficient Trawler

"Seems it would just plow thru the waves like a submarine."

That would really depend on how heavy it is. A D/L of about a hundred and it should stay on top.

Also the fetch and time would enter the picture a 212 ft wave in a long blow in deep water would be no big deal.

12fters in thin water just starting to get heaped would have much shorter period and be heavy going .

FF said:

UGH!

Having to crawl across the bunk to the foot of the bed might be good for an O nite guest , but not for me.

Where does the guest sleep underway? , even skinny boats have lots of motion forward.

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I agree - I think the entire bed placement is a rather strange layout for a boat that is a passage maker. The only bed seems to be in the very front - which is the last place you want your bed to be during a rough passage.

The center area seems like a waste of space in the current layout. I know the designer is likely trying to minimize loss of space to hallways - but the result seems to be a boat for two people right now.

Also - I think it needs better handholds, perhaps on the ceiling for moving about the cabin in rough weather.

The boat seems to have good fit and finish - and Dickey seems good at that, but I really wish he'd chosen a boat builder who had built many ocean crossing boats before - ideally aluminum sailboats.

I still need to be shown that this boat is good in rough weather and long distance.

Wxx3 said:

Seems it would just plow thru the waves like a submarine.

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I do not know if submarining is good or bad.

Steve

Panope said:

I do not know if submarining is good or bad.

Steve

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Yikes! Add dive planes and this bad boy is headed for periscope depth!

Panope said:

I do not know if submarining is good or bad.

Steve

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I think most boat designers and people experienced with the longer thinner designs say that a little submarining is fine - it keeps the motion minimized and makes for a much better ride for everyone involved.

Some quotes from a review of the Dashews' FPB design:

[PDF] Serious Sea Trial - Review: Dashew FPB 83


Read the full review here:

http://www.rocna.com/sites/default/files/press_0509_boatingnz_dashew.pdf

No thanks, I prefer my boats stay on TOP of the water!

Maybe I'm just a little quirky that way...

Yep, I like staying on the surface as well

makobuilders said:

Yep, I like staying on the surface as well

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I like wave-piercing designs because it gives a much smoother ride, higher speed and much greater efficiency (at the cost of interior space, admittedly).

Heck - I'd go for a Swath (50% submerged all the time) if it didn't limit you from shallower waters...

LRC58Fan said:

I'd go for a Swath (50% submerged all the time) if it didn't limit you from shallower waters.

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LRCFan, I did a lot of research myself into SWATHs since for me (actually my wife) motion comfort is more important than even draft.

The smallest SWATH design I could find was 50ft and the estimates to construct (in aluminum) were way too high. The draft wasn't any deeper than my current monohull design of 6+ feet. Payload capacity was very low and even changes in fuel required water ballasting to compensate.

...and then there's SWASH;

SWASH in action;

makobuilders said:

LRCFan, I did a lot of research myself into SWATHs since for me (actually my wife) motion comfort is more important than even draft.

The smallest SWATH design I could find was 50ft and the estimates to construct (in aluminum) were way too high.

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I can see a lot of benefits to SWATH too - as the motion comfort is always a factor for many people, and who doesn't like less motion?

While as MurryM mentioned - there is the MONO-SWATH designs that are in testing - the issue still is initial build cost (and how many experienced builders are there for this type of boat?), as well as resale value (the resale value of a custom boat is terrible as it is, who has a few $ million that they can throw away), and of course there is long term design issues too - the SWATH that the Monterrey Bay aquarium started developing cracks in the hull after a few years because of the stresses of the two hulls being pulled and pushed by the waves repeatedly over time.

For me - Long and Narrow monohull is the most proven, efficient and long term approach. We all know that oil prices are not going to stay down for too long.

I remember touring that SWATH years ago. If I recall, the problem was notch stress, which is an often-seen issue on metal construction. The investigative engineering report was floating around the internet for awhile too.

BTW, working here in the Middle East, the word from the GCC countries is that oil prices will remain low for many, many years to come. Also, every year North America becomes more independent from MidEast oil, which also helps to keep prices down.

IMO, if your cruising ground is America then you don't have too much to worry about, but for those who travel to places like Europe and South Pacific, that is where fuel costs become more significant than even marina fees. When I owned my 65 footer the marina fees were killing me. Fuel costs were nothing in comparison. That's why I've now limited myself to 50ft.

makobuilders said:

I remember touring that SWATH years ago. If I recall, the problem was notch stress, which is an often-seen issue on metal construction. The investigative engineering report was floating around the internet for awhile too.

IMO, if your cruising ground is America then you don't have too much to worry about, but for those who travel to places like Europe and South Pacific, that is where fuel costs become more significant than even marina fees.

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Yes - the Monterey Bay Aquarium SWATH engineering report is still available here - seems that the resale value of that boat is going to be pretty low:

Ship Structure Committee: Case Study: Flyer

"R/V Western Flyer has experienced localized cracking to its aluminum structure during typical operations during virtually all of its twelve year life span. Various modifications have been implemented in an attempt to solve this problem."

Forecasts being a little uncertain in this area - I guess nobody really knows what the oil price will be in 5, 10 or 15 years (or however long you expect to own a boat). All is know for sure is the higher the price of oil, the lower the resale value of a boat that burns a lot. And the further I travel, the more I would pay in Diesel.

A recent news story on the Artnautica LRC 58

Cruise the world on half a litre of diesel per nautical mile


"Starting at $850,000 (New Zealand $, or about $570,000 US) , its affordability is enhanced by the boat's extraordinary fuel economy.

In flat water, lightships, on this 58ft, 14-tonne vessel, we recorded:

• 7.2kts using 0.55 litres diesel per nautical mile

• 8.1kts using 0.67 litres diesel per nautical mile

• 9kts using 0.84 litres diesel per nautical mile.


Full story here:

The Naked Cruiser | Stuff.co.nz

For 14 T; At 7,2 kts 0,55 liter per nm
Our boat :
For 30T at 7 kts 0,81 liter per nm . ( with drag of the unused propeller...)
or at 7,4 kts 0,92 liter per nm. ( "...)


I remember to have read something concerning "transport efficiency" on the Tad Robert website ... if Tad Robert

longcours62 said:

For 14 T; At 7,2 kts 0,55 liter per nm
Our boat :
For 30T at 7 kts 0,81 liter per nm . ( with drag of the unused propeller...)
or at 7,4 kts 0,92 liter per nm. ( "...)


I remember to have read something concerning "transport efficiency" on the Tad Robert website ... if Tad Robert

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Transport Efficiency is here....

Transport Efficiency (Et ): A useful comparison of speed/power/weight

Another update on another long thin design: Looks like fun! Watch the video full screen and right to the end to see the ultimate ride.

The OCEAN EAGLE 43 offers an unmatched cost to performance ratio:
» 3,000 nautical miles autonomy at 20 knots
» Top speed of 30 knots sustainable over a distance of 1,000 nautical miles
» Limited crew of 7 sailors
» Accomodations for 8 additional Special Forces


New Ocean Eagle 43 meter Trimaran in Sea State 5

Read more here - I wonder how much a civilian version would cost:

Video: CMN's Ocean Eagle 43 Trimaran Patrol Vessel Demonstrating Seakeeping in Sea State 5

The point here is long and skinny are fine for cruising FASTER than most folks are willing to pay for.

A fat boat (think beach ball) will have the least wetted surface and be quite cheap at SL 1.

It also has the most volume per foot for the cottage camper or roomarian folks.

Long and skinny is fine for mental masturbation . of after you win the lottery , but 3-1 L/B is about what most are going cruising with.

I agree FF,
I've always liked long and narrow .. as in canoe. Or many older boats.
But I like my short and rather fat Willard that we've had for about 10 years. She turns sharp even at very low speeds but needs to go really slow (6 knots) to get good fuel economy and not be over driven. What I find amazing is her ability to rise up to any sea that we've encountered high enough so no serious water comes aboard. She's full and heavy aft but the bow pops right up and over most all seas. It's even a pleasant motion. We get some light slop on the windows at times but no real amount of water. And as FF points out short and wide gives (by far) the most space. And now w high mooring costs it's even more attractive.

For those that like lots of room,,

https://www.flickr.com/photos/137705615@N07/

FF said:

The point here is long and skinny are fine for cruising FASTER than most folks are willing to pay for.

A fat boat (think beach ball) will have the least wetted surface and be quite cheap at SL 1.

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I disagree with the first point, and agree with the second.

Long and thin boats are very cost effective at higher speeds - thats what is so compelling about them. I'm interested in the Artnautica LRC 58 because of this fact (see details below):

"Starting at $850,000 (New Zealand $, or about $570,000 US) , its affordability is enhanced by the boat's extraordinary fuel economy.

In flat water, lightships, on this 58ft, 14-tonne vessel, we recorded:

• 7.2kts using 0.55 litres diesel per nautical mile

• 8.1kts using 0.67 litres diesel per nautical mile

• 9kts using 0.84 litres diesel per nautical mile.


Different boats will appeal to different people - and thats fine. No boat or design is going to satisfy everyone.

For me - who wants to explore the world in relative comfort and safety -with a focus on the destination, the added speed and seakeeping ability of the longer thinner designs is a big benefit. I'll trade off on the added floor space of the shorter, fatter boats.

I think part of the appeal is also an issue of personality type. I'm used to the fast pace of the technology world / High Tech - and so I really like the aspects of high efficiency and higher speed.

People not in the tech industry might have less of an interest in speed, and newer designs and technology.

Long and thin considered by whom to be more seaworthy?
I don't know enough to make a call on that one.

Efficiency yes but seaworthyness?

Another new "long and thin" design that is currently in production.

Seems like the high center of gravity might be an issue in storm conditions...



Read the full story below:

The Super Sports 18 (SS18) luxury yacht is 18 meters long, reaches speeds up to 56 knots, is powered by four, 270 horsepower supercharged engines, and will cost just over $1 million. What makes it particularity unique is a raised hull that allows it to glide over the waves.

...

The SS18 is a strategic stepping stone for us to unequivocally prove to a discerning audience that something radical in design will actually do what it says,” explains McCall. “Once the naysayers have experienced that the vessel does what it says it will, it allows us to go to our step two.”

Step two for the Glider yacht is twofold. First, the company will offer two versions of its 24-meter Sports Limousines, the SL24, which is powered by four high speed marine diesel engines, and the SLX24, which will have two high speed marine diesels and two RR turbines to reach up to 70 knots. These will be quickly followed by the Sports Superyachts, which will range in size from 35 to 80 meters, and will reach max speeds of 43 knots (Grand Touring Range) and 60 knots (SX-E range).

Re-Designing the Luxury Yacht

Company website:

http://glideryachts.com/

Another new longer, thinner (sailboat-like) power boat that is very efficient and (since its european) rather stylish. Out of my league price-wise, but very nice, IMHO.

For sale now, used - details at link below.









Full details here:

AY74 for sale - Acico YachtsAcico Yachts


This 23m motor yacht was designed for long distances passages for the owner and his family. Next to the full beam owner’s room, it features two guest cabins, as well as a crew cabin for two with an independent wash room. Unique for her size is the laundry and the large, fully equipped galley.


Her spacious engine room shows a twin setup of Volvo Penta D13 800, which allow for a top speed of 24 kn and a cruising speed of 14 kn. Her range at 10 kn is 3000 nm. The deep V hull with its straight bow and the stabilisers guarantees for a smooth and steady ride.

Video below:

LRC58Fan said:

For me - who wants to explore the world in relative comfort and safety -with a focus on the destination, the added speed and seakeeping ability of the longer thinner designs is a big benefit. I'll trade off on the added floor space of the shorter, fatter boats.

I think part of the appeal is also an issue of personality type. I'm used to the fast pace of the technology world / High Tech - and so I really like the aspects of high efficiency and higher speed.

People not in the tech industry might have less of an interest in speed, and newer designs and technology.

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So, what exactly do you do LCR58 other then try to sell long, skinny boats?

skinny boats

Just want to remind everyone that narrow long boats are not new tech. They are actually a throwback and just happen to be bucking the trend to fatter higher more voluminous boats which are practical because there is barely a ceiling to the amount of HP that can be applied to an inefficient hull form. The new tech part is more likely in light weight construction and tweaks to hull shape and bow entry.

Wxx3 said:

So, what exactly do you do LCR58 other then try to sell long, skinny boats?

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No reply??
Boat advertisements should be in Classifieds, not discussion threads.

Yes, long skinny is old-tech. Still, most people these days seem to want lots of living space and minimal berthing fees.

Mr. LRC58FAN, there are plenty of discussions about long/skinny versus short/fat, although perhaps not as many as discussions about anchors and about Detroit 6-71's. I think it always makes good reading. I'm curious which category you fall under:

1) An academic who just wishes to hold a discussion;
2) A salesman trying to push the product;
3) A realist who is building one of these boats.