Forfjord

Eric, it`s a typo. You wrote the Lewmar price as $315, and the Manson as $314. I`m guessing the Lewmar should have been $139. I was thinking the differential was in the weight, but it`s just a typo. I think.

OMG how could I have done that?

Well I did. Sorry guys. Better get serious w my proof reading.

Spy makes a good point about foul bottoms in this region and it's why we almost always use a stout trip line when we're anchoring in those waters.

MurrayM said:

Thanks Steve, those are good points, particularly the last one and this one (which I'll look into);



Here's our bow configuration. (The curved pipe & hose in Badger's bow where the storm anchor will go is a chafe guard for the bow line).

The happy path of least resistance would see a storm anchor nestled in under the anchor pulpit with no modifications needed other than a new windlass.

Click to expand...

Murray
Here is our pulpit with a 20kg Bruce replaced with a #5 Excel(22kg), sorry these are the only photos I have of the Bruce. Very happy with the way the Excel sits on the pulpit.......

rochepoint said:

Murray
Here is our pulpit with a 20kg Bruce replaced with a #5 Excel(22kg), sorry these are the only photos I have of the Bruce. Very happy with the way the Excel sits on the pulpit.......

Click to expand...

Oh man...just look at that downward diving tip

Very nice installation Mike.
Minimal room used on the deck and minimal overhang beyond the bow.

At first I thought I had a Forfjord, but then found "Davis" and "Seahook 100" written on it. It does look like a Forfjord though. It tucked into the bow nicely without adding to LOA so I intended to keep it.

While in the PNW I had trouble setting it a few times, but not often enough to think it was an issue. Then, back in Australia and attempting to anchor in a section of Moreton Bay with thick seagrass on the bottom I simply could not get it to hold at all. So out came the spare anchor, a two-piece alloy Sarca Excel. I rigged it and set it immediately. Since then the Excel has continued to set quickly, and deal with tide and current changes without any problems at all. So now the Excel is the primary anchor. It sits in the bow roller quite well but does increase LOA by a foot.

At present the Davis is sitting on the foredeck, but it can't stay there. Were I still in the PNW or some other location where losing an anchor is a risk then I would find someway of keeping it on board. But here in Queensland I'll never use it so it could yet become garden art.

Last summer I modified the Fordjorn by sharpening the flucks point and sides and making the head two inches higher so the flucks are angled down more. Also ground out the head so the shank has a larger angle to moveup down before pulling the flucks up out.

I did dry land testing by pulling the anchor be hind the pick up. It dugand set quickly on dry hard dirt. Have not actually achored with it yet being as we do not anchor. 5 times in 20 years. We are confirmed live aboard dock queen.

manyboats said:

Sounds like you should go shopping for a higher performance anchor or a bigger anchor winch. I'll sell you a reel winch that should have no problem w heavy gear for $400. The ideal anchor for your boat could be the Manson Ray (a fabricated (not cast)) claw. Expensive though. And yes I too see Navy anchors on some larger craft. Here's two examples of Navy anchors as primaries (one on a yacht) and two examples of Forfjords on 30' boats. Heavy anchors still seem to have their place in the modern world. Here's a pic of the winch too.


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Tuesday 8th of November 2011 11:22:17 AM

Click to expand...

I think the third picture down is a Navy stockless anchor rather than a fjord,No?

Sailor of Fortune said:

I think the third picture down is a Navy stockless anchor rather than a fjord,No?

Click to expand...

S of F,
On post #4 pics 3 and 4 are indeed stockless Navy anchors. Did I muck up my text? Sorry. I need to proof read very carefully w this i-pad. I hunt and peck the keyboard and you'd be amazed at the unintelligible things I type because I'm not seeing what I type as I'm waching the keyboard. Too late to edit as there's such a small time allotted for that. On BoatDesign.com you can edit a month old post.


Brian,
Looks like a very good knock of Forfjord ... but is it? The Forfjord could be a knock off Davis. I think Davis is a sizable and long time anchor manufacturer. It could be the Forfjord is the knockoff. That would upset a bunch of fishermen if that was to get out. Anyway I didn't know the Davis Seahook 100 existed. Thanks Brian.


Phil fill,
Interesting,
Grinding, sharpening and modifying anchors is a bit of a hobby of mine.
Sounds like you may have increased the throat angle that I'm quite sure is the angle between the shank and flukes when the flukes are fully extended. More fluke angle would make it better in very soft bottoms or mud but probably not so effective anchoring on harder bottoms. Don't understand how you made the flukes longer.
I'm installing little blocks that could be called shims (3/8ths & 1/2" thick) to limit the throat angle on my old Dreadnought. Float angle was about 65 degrees .. too much.
I cut out some of the back of the fluke on my XYZ and sharpened the fluke tip edge considerably. It's just mild steel but held in a 50 knot gale. The tip angle went from about 45 to about 60 degrees. Unless the back of the fluke flips up it will be a weight reduction and better setting and holding. Boat's almost ready to go now so trying some anchoring should happen soon.

I don't lengthen the flucks. Widen them by added mudders as shown in one of your pictures. The throat angle was about 20 degrees, 5 times scope. Now the angle is around 45 degrees, 3 times scope before the shaft would start pulling the flukes up out.

I tested on dry hard land. The flucks started digging in right away where before the anchor would not dig in. Several years ago, we had a long discussion, so I went around the marina counting the number of different anchor, nothing the differences. The new improved anchor had sharp points and edges, and the angle was larger, so the flucks would dig in easier and quicker. Being chaep and old school the modification cost me nothing. Owning an old boat many times you have to think out side of the box, and change modify.

I lashed my GoPro camera to a small float. Got some very interesting footage of my anchors in action.

In this video (and 6 others that are viewable from my YouTube channel) I purposely used a very aggressive and violent setting technique. I used lots of boat momentum and made no attempt to "nurse" the anchors into the ground.

The "180 degree, simulated wind shift torture test" was especially interesting as the anchor remained buried throughout its rotation.

Steve

https://youtu.be/d4cHdfsuTfI

Good video. The commercial trawler say once they are set, they hold.

Wicked awesome idea, floating the gopro above the anchor...which did its job admirably I must say.

Interesting camera technique, Steve, thanks for that.


How many horsepower does your engine make at 3000 RPMs?


-Chris

ranger42c said:

Interesting camera technique, Steve, thanks for that.
How many horsepower does your engine make at 3000 RPMs?

-Chris

Click to expand...

Ranger, I think I know why you asked that, but I had to laugh, because for some reason it immediately brought to mind a story my late uncle used to tell. He was always full of stories.

This one was about a boy, who when he heard about a neighbourhood being burgled, and her TV stolen, his first question was..."what size screen did it have?"

So the snubber is the full length of the chain, or am I looking at this wrong?

ranger42c said:

Interesting camera technique, Steve, thanks for that.


How many horsepower does your engine make at 3000 RPMs?


-Chris

Click to expand...

Chris, according to the the yanmar "propeller curve" chart, the engine makes 14 horsepower at 3000 rpm (max crankshaft power is 40hp and max RPM is 3800).

I use a fairly large, fixed pitch, three blade prop that pulls very hard in forward but in reverse, it is probably half as efficient (many sailboats use featherig props that have the same efficiency in both forward and reverse).

This engine propeller combination is not able to pull, in reverse, nearly as hard as a gale force wind with chop would pull. It is why I feel it is important for me to use boat momentum to at least provide a momentary yank on the anchor of very high load.

This does require that one has a lot of confidence in their anchor roller and/or chain snubber.

Boat wieghs about 15,000 lbs.

Steve

cardude01 said:

So the snubber is the full length of the chain, or am I looking at this wrong?

Click to expand...

A 30 foot snubber was attached at the 80 foot mark on the chain.

Steve

Panope said:

A 30 foot snubber was attached at the 80 foot mark on the chain.



Steve

Click to expand...

Ahhh. Gotcha. For some reason I thought it was attached near the anchor.

My snubber is a dinky 10'. Is a 30' snubber used for the extra stretch?

cardude01 said:

So the snubber is the full length of the chain, or am I looking at this wrong?

Click to expand...

Take a look again and think about the camera angle...it's straight down...so he must have affixed some sort of float with two lines to the anchor chain or shackle. I'm guessing the float was something flat, so the gopro wouldn't wobble from side to side like a round one would have done..?

Cardude, my preference for this test would have been to use no snubber at all (I did just that in the other 6 tests that I videoed). But with this secondary rode, the chain is only 80 feet long, so in order to achieve the desired scope some nylon had to be used.

I suppose I should have used the same rode for each test so as to be a more accurate comparison.

Steve

MurrayM said:

Take a look again and think about the camera angle...it's straight down...so he must have affixed some sort of float with two lines to the anchor chain or shackle. I'm guessing the float was something flat, so the gopro wouldn't wobble from side to side like a round one would have done..?

Click to expand...

Didn't mean to get the thread sidetracked with snubber talk. I thought the test was cool.

Not familiar with that type of anchor. Looks like it stuck and reset well.

Peter B said:

Ranger, I think I know why you asked that, but I had to laugh, because for some reason it immediately brought to mind a story my late uncle used to tell. He was always full of stories.

This one was about a boy, who when he heard about a neighbourhood being burgled, and her TV stolen, his first question was..."what size screen did it have?"

Click to expand...

Panope said:

Chris, according to the the yanmar "propeller curve" chart, the engine makes 14 horsepower at 3000 rpm (max crankshaft power is 40hp and max RPM is 3800).

This engine propeller combination is not able to pull, in reverse, nearly as hard as a gale force wind with chop would pull. It is why I feel it is important for me to use boat momentum to at least provide a momentary yank on the anchor of very high load.

Boat wieghs about 15,000 lbs.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I suspected it would be useful to better understand how much HP you were applying to the anchor/rode... and to compare your horsepower at 3000 RPMs versus ours. I can't get to 3000, but at 2600 WOT we make 900 hp.

-Chris

Here are links to the other 5 videos that I created.

A 33 pound genuine Bruce:
https://youtu.be/VEOMxWidKe0

A 25 pound Danforth copy of exceptionally poor quality:
https://youtu.be/IJJtdlCbUIA

A 45 pound Manson Supreme:
https://youtu.be/tDJwRd-D7vA

A 45 pound Manson Supreme with very short scope:
https://youtu.be/mr37r1j7u0g

A 45 pound Manson Supreme with rode attached to the "rock slot":
https://youtu.be/lVm0NiQ7EB8

Steve

Panope said:

Click to expand...

There, see...I just knew it was some super high tech camera mount system!

ranger42c said:

Thanks, I suspected it would be useful to better understand how much HP you were applying to the anchor/rode... and to compare your horsepower at 3000 RPMs versus ours. I can't get to 3000, but at 2600 WOT we make 900 hp.

-Chris

Click to expand...

In the sailboat world, everyone has roughly the same "relative" sized engine (able to make displacement hull speed). As a result, describing back-down force with rpm is common and somewhat of an apples to apples comparison.

Powerboats naturally have engine sizes that are all over the map. I am glad you brought up the issue in this conversation.

Steve

MurrayM said:

There, see...I just knew it was some super high tech camera mount system!

Click to expand...

Murray, it is true that I do not have a lot of money invested in the camera mount as I found the float on a beach.

I did have to go all the way to Barkley Sound to find that particular beach, however.

Steve

I think this is very cool. It would benefit a lot of boaters to do the same (assuming the water was clear enough), especially over a long period of time as their boat shifts and acts on the anchor naturally, in addition to what happens as they set it in their normal fashion or try new techniques. It's apparent from a lot of threads here that many people do not understand what is really going on down there.