What should I have done?

I'm OK as long as they maintain course. (To starboard is a bridge pier.)

When I get in a situation that I don't know what the other skipper is going to do, I always slow and give way. I don't care who has the right away. Most of the time the vessel entering my course is much bigger and working for a living-me? I'm retired and not in a hurry.

a lot of replies for a simple question

I think Skipper Cave did exactly the correct thing. He was unsure of the response from the sail boat, so he slowed down. In this case the sail boat crossed his bow, and because Skipper Cave slowed down, or stalled as it were, the event passed uneventfully. Well done Skipper Cave.

As for blowing the correct number of horn blasts? It is extremely unlikely anyone would know what a certain blast would mean. So blowing the horn to attract attention is probably the only blast Skipper Cave could have done.

grahamdouglass said:

As for blowing the correct number of horn blasts? It is extremely unlikely anyone would know what a certain blast would mean. So blowing the horn to attract attention is probably the only blast Skipper Cave could have done.

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Based on many of the responses to this tread I think you're spot on.

Apparently there is no point in using or even knowing the correct signals. Everyone should just go out and get one of those car horns that plays pieces of songs. Like say Dixie. That should get another vessels attention just fine.

Capt.Bill11 said:

... Apparently there is no point in using or even knowing the correct signals. Everyone should just go out and get one of those car horns that plays pieces of songs. Like say Dixie. That should get another vessels attention just fine.

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Further support not to trust another boater's appreciation of the COLREGS unless demonstrated.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Based on many of the responses to this tread I think you're spot on.

Apparently there is no point in using or even knowing the correct signals. Everyone should just go out and get one of those car horns that plays pieces of songs. Like say Dixie. That should get another vessels attention just fine.

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Bill, well said, except playing Dixie, these days, may attract the black helicopters from the justice dept.

And you may as well be whistling Dixie in trying to bring some formality to horn signals.

Tone of thred

Is anyone but me having the thought that the tone of this thread argues pretty strongly for universal licensing and MUCH more training than any state, to my knowledge, requires for pleasure boaters? Don't think anybody here wants that but come on folks, please stop arguing against knowing the rules. Bill

Greetings,
Mr. 47. "...universal licensing and MUCH more training..." Vehicles driven on the roads require this. I rest my case.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. 47. "...universal licensing and MUCH more training..." Vehicles driven on the roads require this. I rest my case.

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I'm with you on this one !

boatdriver47 said:

Is anyone but me having the thought that the tone of this thread argues pretty strongly for universal licensing and MUCH more training than any state, to my knowledge, requires for pleasure boaters? Don't think anybody here wants that but come on folks, please stop arguing against knowing the rules. Bill

Click to expand...

I have freely admitted that I have a hard time remembering the sound signal rules. I have also stated that I should remember them and have taken steps to have a cheat sheet readily available while under way.

I haven't really heard anyone arguing against knowing the rules but folks have pointed out the realities that a few of us (well od, me) don't remember them all the time and that those of you who know then all and use them all correctly may run into boaters who don't.

The argument has been made, or at least implied in this thread that any sound signal that does not conform to the Maneuvering and Warning signals is worse than useless. That argument does make a lot of sense.

So back to JDs situation. It seems to me that in regards to sound signals, he had a couple of options that would conform to the COLREGS.
1. He could (should?) have made the 5 short blast signal in accordance with Rule 34 (d)
2. He could have used any combination of sound signals (other than Morse code SOS) using say 3 second blasts since those that know the COLREGS would immediately understand that those are not signals otherwise authorized in the COLREGS hence can be used simply to attract attention. Rule 36.

I am sure those that know and use the sound signals make sure to always make their long blasts between 4 and 6 seconds in length. Right?

dhays said:

...
I am sure those that know and use the sound signals make sure to always make their long blasts between 4 and 6 seconds in length. Right?

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Some boaters seem to be embarrassed or miserly to "lean" on the horn since they make a half-second toot when a prolonged, 4 to 6 second blast is called for.

For the most part, the sound signals are fairly simple to learn and should be employed by all if not in the actual signal but in the thought process. If you are meeting (head on) or overtaking another vessel and you are going to be watching him out of your port window during the process then that is a one whistle situation. If you will be watching a similar vessel out of your strb. window it would be a two whistle situation. If you are BEING OVERTAKEN think of the physics involved and pretend that you are actually heading towards the other vessel and your bow is now your stern and the same applies. Practice it while driving your car, it will come to you pretty naturally.

I only know the five blasts but thought they were supposed to be long or not short or?
For a number of years I've been in Alaska and boat trafic is light enough so there's really not much motivation for AIS or correct horn blasts. And in the lower 48 states so few know them that learning them and using them is basically a waste of time. Imagine how confusing it would be if we had 5 or 6 different horn signals necessary to drive our cars. Somehow I don't feel terribly guilty about now knowing the horn blasts.

While not always blown it is very common down here to use the one or two whistle to indicate over the VHF your intentions. As in "see you on the one".

Forget the port and strb. window thing and look at it this way: Do not point your hand across your body, use either your right hand or your left hand to point to the other vessel and then track its proposed relationship with you through your meeting or passing situation. If the boat is overtaking you then you have to turn around to point at it and track through the situation. If you are using your right hand its a two whistle situation if you are using your left its a one whistle. If the vessel is ahead of you whether meeting or passing it you do not have to turn around to see it. Same thing though, left or right hand tracking through the proposed meeting no pointing across your body.

Knowing the one a two may save from having to blow the five.

I think the main difference here is the frame of reference of the professional mariner and that of the amateur mariner. Certainly not universal, but one's past experience can dictate what one might expect of others. And definitely not directed at any person in particular.

If you are a pro and have always been a pro and your peers are pros, you expect others to behave in a professional manner wrt the Navrules...know them and comply. There's no excuse for not knowing the rules you're required to comply with, regardless of your pro or amateur status.

If your roots in boating are as a recreational boater who once didn't (maybe still don't?) know the Navrules but you got by, you might expect others you encounter on the water to have a similar familiarity or lack thereof with the Navrules. Maybe you do or maybe you don't know all the rules. Maybe you just know the ones that you think will apply to you in your vessel and circumstances. Your expectation of others understanding rules you consider irrelevant are probably not too high. You could very well be right!

It's each of our responsibilities to know and comply with the NavRules, expect the others to do the same and be prepared to act safely when the other vessel doesn't.

ulysses said:

Do not point your hand across your body, use either your right hand or your left hand to point to the other vessel and then track its proposed relationship with you through your meeting or passing situation. If the boat is overtaking you then you have to turn around to point at it and track through the situation. If you are using your right hand its a two whistle situation if you are using your left its a one whistle. If the vessel is ahead of you whether meeting or passing it you do not have to turn around to see it. Same thing though, left or right hand tracking through the proposed meeting no pointing across your body.

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Great suggestion. A question though, why would I need to signal to a vessel that is overtaking me? Would I be asking them to pass on a given side of me? Generally, I have always assumed that the burden to avoid any conflict is on the overtaking vessel.

One thing that is interesting up here in the PNW is that afaik, the entire Puget Sound region is under International Rules, while just north of us the Canadians are under their version of the Inland rules.

So if I am overtaking someone to starboard on the South side of the Strait of Juan de Fuca I would blow 2 long and 1 short. If I am North of the Strait, I would blow 1 short.

Amazingly, I actually do overtake powerboats on rare occasions. I run at just under 7 knots burning under 1 gph and sometimes pass a FD or SD slow boat.

A large ship going down current and constrained by draft trumps any sailboat or powerboat, under power or sail. That and the fact that it will squash your little tub makes it a good idea to avoid contact at all cost. But, one thing that really ammuses me is that on countless accounts of sail and powerboats at sea when encountering a ship, if it gets within a mile of them it becomes "scary" and "we were almost run down" then in the channell at home they will cut across the bow like its a bass boat. go figure.

At least brush up on them before the depositions.

Dave: yes, the burden is on the vessel doing the overtaking. it would not be uncommon down here for him to contact you and ask what whistle would you prefer me to overtake you on ? Most of my experience is on rivers and it is the descending vessel that usually dictates which whistle in meeting situations, as far as overtaking situations the burden is still on the one doing the overtaking and most of the time the one being overtaken will want the slacker water naturally when up river bound.

I would have to study up on the Canadian rules, no...never mind too cold.

We have both International, and U.S. Inland, and then they throw in Western River Rules (above the H.P. Long Bridge in Red Stick). One, two, and five blast are still the same though.

To correct the last the western river and great lake rules have now been included in the Inland rules for the most part.

made no signals, almost

Took a three-hour jaunt from Vallejo to Martinez and return. On the return, going westward, there was a barge being pushed by a tug, amazingly going a knot slower than I. I was approaching on his port side and he a quarter mile ahead.

I had a choice. Pass on his portside and cross ahead as my destination was ultimately to starboard, or turn 15 degrees to starboard to cross behind his stern. Took the second option and passed him to my portside.

Turned out the barge/tug was also heading for the Napa River, passing by Vallejo. Shortly after my passing him in Carquinez Strait, the tug's communication with traffic control revealed its destination.

Saw no need to communicate with the tug by horn or otherwise. Ditto the tug.

Made a prolonged signal approaching my marina because the tide had dropped since leaving, and the breakwater was beginning to obscure the view.

Britannia said:

As a former (very recently) sailor, I didn't realize that there was so much animosity towards them for not knowing the rules of the road. Of course, I was well aware of the wayward ways of those ignorant power boaters. Hmmm, I wonder what's going on there?

As you can see, as a former sailor I tried 5 short blasts to get this stupid ship out of my way, but the ignorant pilot just kept going.

Richard

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Richard

Like many on the Forum I grew up sailing and gaining racing experience offshore. Totally exposed to the elements no matter what the weather.

What we have seen all too often in the PNW are sail boats under power equipped with murky Eisenglass dodgers that help keep the helms person dry and warmer but lack good visibility in foggy and wet weather. As mentioned, a long blast seems to wake them up, but not always. Power boaters with ear buds on don't respond to a warning blast either.

I'm with Mark on this. We simply assume any boat on a potential collision course will do the wrong thing regardless of who's stand-on and give-way so we react long before the situation can become at all dangerous. It's defensive boating and it's no different than defensive driving.

We don't care who has stand-on rights, we simply do what is smart to avoid a situation in the first place.

Almost nobody uses horn signals up here. In the 17 years we been driving our cruising boat and the eleven years we were using our fishing boat before that, I cannot recall a single instance of any boat, recreational or commercial, using a horn signal to communicate passing, meeting, etc. Even the ferries remain silent underway other than giving a short toot at someone they think might not be aware of their presence. (They do sound their horns per the regulations when in fog.)

I've only known one boater who used a horn signal and that was a fellow who always gave a long blast when approaching our harbor entrance. It's a legal signal but it so pissed off everyone in the harbor that the port finally told the guy to stop blowing the horn and he did.

We always go around the back of tugs and tows or commercial vessels if we're in the same batch of water they are even if it appears that we could squeak by in front. We also slow down if necessary to ensure plenty of room between us and a crossing vessel. It's surprising how many recreational skippers don't seem to realize that it's okay to pull the throttles back once they're up at cruising speed.

To me, the whole issue of what to do when in proximity of another boat is a non-issue. As others have said, it is dead easy to avoid a potentially problematical situation simply by looking ahead, being aware of what's going on, and taking "defensive" action long before it becomes critical

Like most things in boating, it's simply common sense. Some boaters have it and some seem not to.

The photo below is a common occurance for us in the islands. We always make sure it's never an issue for either us or the ferry.

Here we only need to be licensed if operating a boat >10 knots. As you can imagine that lets most trawler operators out, but we tend to get licensed anyway. As well as a practical test you have to arrange independently, Maritime set a written test, and there are some questions which if you get wrong, you fail. Others you can get wrong, with a limit. The tester discusses your results with you.
We need to learn the sound signals. I think skippers are reluctant to sound 5 blasts. I did it to a non right of way ferry once, he wasn`t too happy but at least he knew I was there. If you think there is a problem looming, it will likely get worse fast, so signal, now, while there is time. I call it the "WTF are you doing?" signal. It`s part of your duty to avoid a collision.

Never found it necessary yet to blow five-short signals (which means to me I'm unable to avoid you or I'm pissed.) Even if I'm the stand-on vessel, I maneuver before that stage to avoid collision.

Passed several barges being pushed by tugs today. In one instance there was one headed directly toward me. At 1.5 miles distance, I turned several degrees to starboard, and we ended up with a nice pass without unnecessary communication or fuss.



Don't 99+ percent of boat meetings work similarly?

Originally Posted by BryanF
So always assume the other guy is out to run you down.
That way you can be pleasantly surprised when he does what he is expected to do

ddalme put up...
When I get in a situation that I don't know what the other skipper is going to do, I always slow and give way. I don't care who has the right away. Most of the time the vessel entering my course is much bigger and working for a living-me? I'm retired and not in a hurry.

Cardude wrote...
This is my rule as well. I just give way regardless of who has the right of way.

For mine...
While I agree, this is a good mindset to have, if one is the clear stand on vessel, it pays to give the other vessel at least a chance to make good. Otherwise if you bail too early, you might actually end up heading towards where he was just about to head, thus complicating something that needn't have been. Also, if he/she had assessed the situation correctly, and was planning to do the right thing, pre-empting his/her actions might well p*** him/her off, and rightly so. Just sayin'

boatdriver47 said:

Is anyone but me having the thought that the tone of this thread argues pretty strongly for universal licensing and MUCH more training than any state, to my knowledge, requires for pleasure boaters? Don't think anybody here wants that but come on folks, please stop arguing against knowing the rules. Bill

Click to expand...

Makes good sense. All Australian States now require this. About time the US and Canada...maybe the UK as well...caught up. It is the 21st century, after all.

Peter B said:

Makes good sense. All Australian States now require this. About time the US and Canada...maybe the UK as well...caught up. It is the 21st century, after all.

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Canada had had recreational competency testing for over ten years now. Mandatory for the last six.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasure_Craft_Operator_Card

Northern Spy said:

Canada had had recreational competency testing for over ten years now. Mandatory for the last six.

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Yeah but...
The competency exam can be taken online and someone else can do it for you.
A certificate of competency can be issued by completing a rental boat safety checklist.

BTW, in case our neighbours did not know...
US citizens can use their State competency certificate (if there is one) in Canadian waters, for up to 45 days before requiring a Canadian Certificate.

Hawgwash said:

Yeah but...
The competency exam can be taken online and someone else can do it for you.
A certificate of competency can be issued by completing a rental boat safety checklist.

BTW, in case our neighbours did not know...
US citizens can use their State competency certificate (if there is one) in Canadian waters, for up to 45 days before requiring a Canadian Certificate.

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Good to know. I have the WA State card. If only I had the time to spend 46 days in BC waters!