What should I have done?

Regardless of any engine issues, I would probably have done the same thing. When in doubt, cutting your speed to allow more time to assess the situation is almost always a good plan.

Wayfarer said:

Regardless of any engine issues, I would probably have done the same thing. When in doubt, cutting your speed to allow more time to assess the situation is almost always a good plan.

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Avoidance was done too late. Read on.

boatpoker said:

I'm not so sure you did the right thing. You had a know problem with stalling at idle speed and yet you continued to the point you did stall. You should have seen this coming and reacted before you did i.e. You would have been held partially responsible for taking out a boat with a known problem and lack of a sound signalling device.

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Boatpoker, you win the prize, calling it correctly from 2000 miles away and I'll tell you why. But for the moment, let's take the stall out of the equation.

Enterprise Channel is not an extremely tight or lengthy waterway.
Visibility was not an issue. Based on the attached chart, the sailboat was tracking well away from the channel. Here, I assume the two vessels were not travelling at a high rate of speed. 10 knots or less, maybe? Based on local knowledge, I believe under all these conditions the sailboat should have been visible for at least 1 mile and a collision course could have been determined long before "it happened quickly."

JD;
The first mistake you made was assuming anything about the other boater. I take that back...you should always assume the other boat is intent on running you down and be prepared well in advance. Everything else is an excuse:

JDCAVE said:

A sailboat (single handed) under power is heading north, with the intention of heading east through the passage. I am the stand-on vessel as he approaches my port bow. I watch closely for his intentions as he continues, without changing course. Increasingly it appears that he intends to cut across my bow, and yet I am concerned that if I turn to port he might turn to his starboard increasing my risk of collision. I pull back on the throttle and my vessel stalls (another issue that I need to explore). He continues on and cuts across my bow with me now dead in the water. I start my vessel and then head south.

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JDCAVE said:

It happened quickly. I was fumbling with the horn for 4 blasts, but the breaker was off. I would have raised him on the VHF, but I was contending with having to restart the vessel...(I) don't routinely use the horn except under conditions of fog.

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JDCAVE said:

As I was in a narrow channel, I would have thought he would have understood passing red to red.

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JDCAVE said:

All: thanks for your advice. I have a laminated cardboard that I need to get out. Clearly the VHF option would have been best and I often make contact with other vessels to agree on safe passes.

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JDCAVE said:

I am due to change my fuel filters. My delay

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JDCAVE said:

has been due to the fact it will be a first for me so want to be prepared. I have dual Racor 900's and the pressure gauge does not indicate an issue but I will change all filters, primary and secondary, when I am certain I have the procedure down. BTW, I have Microcommander electronic controls. Not sure if that might be contributory to stalling. I happened in one other occasion this summer.

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I'm sorry JD but in my estimation, the predicament you found yourself in was avoidable. The "what should I have done?" was really a before the fact, not after, question. For whatever reason, you were ill prepared on so many levels and if it's any comfort, I've been there.

Hawgwash said:

Avoidance was done too late. Read on.


I'm sorry JD but in my estimation, the predicament you found yourself in was avoidable. The "what should I have done?" was really a before the fact, not after, question. For whatever reason, you were ill prepared on so many levels and if it's any comfort, I've been there.

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What type of boat do you operate, Hawgwash? I don't see anything in your profile.

markpierce said:

The practice here is for big ships is to sound one prolonged (at least four second) blast when approaching a plethora of small boats.

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So where you boat commercial ships sound a signal that has no meaning in the situation described here!? I don't understand why they would open themselves up to that liability when it would be just as easy to sound the correct signal.

dhays said:

The horn would have been a good idea, either 1 short or 4 short. However, I will bet that the sailor would not have had a clue as to what they meant.

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It seems I don't have a clue either. What does 4 short blasts on the horn mean?

Capt.Bill11 said:

So where you boat commercial ships sound a signal that has no meaning in the situation described here!? I don't understand why they would open themselves up to that liability when it would be just as easy to sound the correct signal.

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So, what's wrong with a prolonged signal, signifying "here I am" especially when the other boat doesn't act like it is aware of your presence? Many/most boaters aren't aware of the meaning of specific sound signals, so it's often best to just let them know you're there. I presume boaters are clueless/ignorant until they otherwise demonstrate competence/awareness. So far, this belief has kept me from a collision. No doubt you're aware of my preference for a loud horn, exceeding minimal requirements.


About the only sound signal I've heard on ships (something like 200 days on board over a dozen years) is the prolonged signal. Rarely three shorts for going in reverse leaving a dock and no signals for right/left turns or multiple shorts signifying "danger/confusion."

Wayfarer said:

When in doubt, cutting your speed to allow more time to assess the situation is almost always a good plan.

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Ted

markpierce said:

So, what's wrong with a prolonged signal, signifying "here I am" especially when the other boat doesn't act like it is aware of your presence? Many/most boaters aren't aware of the meaning of specific sound signals, so it's often best to just let them know you're there. I presume boaters are clueless/ignorant until they otherwise demonstrate competence/awareness. So far, this belief has kept me from a collision. No doubt you're aware of my preference for a loud horn, exceeding minimal requirements.


About the only sound signal I've heard on ships (something like 200 days on board over a dozen years) is the prolonged signal. Rarely three shorts for going in reverse leaving a dock and no signals for right/left turns or multiple shorts signifying "danger/confusion."

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It would quickly become obvious what's wrong with sounding the incorrect signal once the captain is in a maritime court of law.

As I said, it makes no sense to sound a meaningless signal when it's just as easy to sound the correct signal and achieve the same goal while covering your ass at the same time. You don't hear a lot of signals between ships anymore due to the invention and accepted use of the radio to convey their intentions. If you tune to channel 13 once in a while in an area with a high volume of commercial traffic you'll see what I mean.

Or take a hand held VHF along on one of your many cruises and perhaps you'll get a clearer picture why you haven't been hearing manuvering signals.

And no I was not fully aware you had an unusually loud horn to blow. Not sure why I would be. But I do agree with your preference.

eagle419 said:

It seems I don't have a clue either. What does 4 short blasts on the horn mean?

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Nothing

Thought so

Unless he was a pilot vessel.

In the fog.

noted thanks Bill - can't find a suitable emoticon

eagle419 said:

It seems I don't have a clue either. What does 4 short blasts on the horn mean?

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That you missed 1 blast or you did not do well in math or you just did not know

FlyWright said:

What type of boat do you operate, Hawgwash? I don't see anything in your profile.

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You may think his assessment is harsh but it's pretty much spot on. All the OP had to do was slow down and make a significant course change that should be apparent to the other vessel. In this case to the port to change to closing angle for the better as quick as possible. And do this as soon has he had doubts about what the intentions of the other vessel were.

Plus his vessel was arguably not prepared for the trip based on the fact that the horn was nonfunctional and the stalling issue.

And yes it's easy to say that now and when you weren't there. But not saying it does a disservice to anyone looking to learn from this.

Capt.Bill11 said:

So where you boat commercial ships sound a signal that has no meaning in the situation described here!? I don't understand why they would open themselves up to that liability when it would be just as easy to sound the correct signal.

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They are professionals and have everything to lose. Perhaps you don't have a complete understanding. By the time one sounds multiple short signals, disaster could be upon one. Better to give advance warning when needed.

Thanks for your comments Hawgwash. I agree that I should have responded differently. I should have:

1) Sounded 5 or more blasts in the horn immediately. This does not require him to respond on the VHF, only that he hears me. (That said, I don't think this would have promoted him to change his actions, as he didn't understand his obligations in the first place or slow down.)

2) At the same time slowing down to idle forward only.

3) do not turn to starboard, but maintain heading...turning to starboard would have increased the risk of collision in this case as he came across my bow before heading to his starboard.

I do not agree however with your assertion that Enterprise Channel isn't narrow: there isn't a lot of water between the kelp beds north of the reefs off Trial Islands. Also the track I showed on the chart is as I remember the situation but probably is a poor representation of the situation.

Typically I assess situations and regularly contact other vessels in VHF to arrange safe passes.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

It's common to hear 1-long 1-short when a boat requests a bridge opening. And the bridge will acknowledge in kind if granting, OR 5-short to signal the boat to wait until the bridge can be opened.

With our last sailboat, I went through the Feemont cut often and needed the bridge opened. The bridge is 30ft from the water and my mast 32.

The Promise is in the same Marina as I had my Sailboat, when I'm relaxing there I hear all the signals as well as monitor the radio, it's very entertaining esp. On the weekends.

Hey Mr. JD, don't beat yourself up too bad. You managed the situation, there was no collision, and nobody drowned. A good friend and sailor, (who taught me & my wife to sail) once cautioned me by saying 'it's amazing how quickly all hell can break loose'.

Cheers

Diesel Duck 492 said:

A simple laminated placard of the USCG Rule 34 - Maneuvering and Warning signals for both International and Inland Waters should fix any memory issues:

Boat Docking - Nautical Sound Signals

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesContent#rule34

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This was copied directly from the boat docking placard, (which I thank you for posting):
"1 short:
-overtaking to starboard (respond in kind)"

I find this very confusing. Who's starboard? Obviously, it MUST mean the starboard of the vessel being overtaken.
Why not just state it clearly and simply with, "I intend to leave you to my port"?
Agree?

The following was copied and pasted from the USCG's site:

(i) one short blast to mean "I am altering my course to starboard"

Thanks Captain Bill. You said "make a significant course change that should be apparent to the other vessel. In this case to the port to change to closing angle for the better as quick as possible"

I'm still not sure I should have made any course change in this instance as it was a narrow enough channel and turning to port would go agains the convention of "port to port" pass in a narrow channel.

BTW, the boats horn was functional. The bonehead of a skipper hadn't switched it on.

I have learned from this and will take faster action next time.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

Yeah, things can go crazy quickly.

Communicating by radio is most effective with passing-from-behind situations as forward boat's stern often displays its name, but that's only been a couple of times when I've been closely passed. It would be different if everyone had AIS, which I do not. Not a significant handicap yet since I presume everyone else is, well, whatever.

It's frustrating when boats on the AICW do not have a visible name on the transom. Some are covered by dinghies, some are painted on the sides of the boat and not visible from behind. I also find many sailors do not monitor their radios.

markpierce said:

They are professionals and have everything to lose. Perhaps you don't have a complete understanding. By the time one sounds multiple short signals, disaster could be upon one. Better to give advance warning when needed.

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You're right. I don't even remotely, let alone completely, understand how you could think it takes any significantly more time to sound a horn 5 quick times than it does to sound it one prolonged time. And I would bet a maritime judge wouldn't completely understand it either.

But in this case I'll bow to the vast knowledge of manuvering signals, how and when they should be used you have apparently accumulated on your 200+ plus days as a cruise ship passenger.

hmason said:

It's frustrating when boats on the AICW do not have a visible name on the transom. Some are covered by dinghies, some are painted on the sides of the boat and not visible from behind. I also find many sailors do not monitor their radios.

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Perhaps the best to be done is to give a passing signal and then be prepared for the other boat to do something weird.

JDCAVE said:

Thanks for your comments Hawgwash. I agree that I should have responded differently. I should have:

1) Sounded 5 or more blasts in the horn immediately. This does not require him to respond on the VHF, only that he hears me. (That said, I don't think this would have promoted him to change his actions, as he didn't understand his obligations in the first place or slow down.)
...

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That required you to maneuver to avoid collision, which you did!

JDCAVE said:

Thanks Captain Bill. You said "make a significant course change that should be apparent to the other vessel. In this case to the port to change to closing angle for the better as quick as possible"

I'm still not sure I should have made any course change in this instance as it was a narrow enough channel and turning to port would go agains the convention of "port to port" pass in a narrow channel.

BTW, the boats horn was functional. The bonehead of a skipper hadn't switched it on.

I have learned from this and will take faster action next time.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

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If the breaker is turned off, it's nonfunctional at the time of need.

The convention of port to port goes out the window in the event of a collision. And if you had made the change soon enough you would not have stalled and the close quarters situation most likely never would have happened.

And I don't mean to pick on you. I'm guessing all or at least most of us have been in these kinds of situations and not always made the best decisions. But we do hopefully learn from them.

Capt.Bill11 said:

You're right. I don't even remotely, let alone completely, understand how you could think it takes any significantly more time to sound a horn 5 quick times than it does to sound it one prolonged time. And I would bet a maritime judge wouldn't completely understand it either.

But in this case I'll bow to the vast knowledge of manuvering signals, how and when they should be used you have apparently accumulated on your 200+ plus days as a cruise ship passenger.

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My point was that one should not wait for the last instant to signal. Have rarely needed to signal except to announce my entrance/exit at a marina with high breakwater or to test/exercise the horn every day underway (enjoying the echoing under the Carquinez Strait bridges).

hmason said:

It's frustrating when boats on the AICW do not have a visible name on the transom. Some are covered by dinghies, some are painted on the sides of the boat and not visible from behind. I also find many sailors do not monitor their radios.

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Then there are the ones with the stylized names with pictures incorporated in them. Or the name written in a font that makes them all but unreadable till you are right on top of them.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Then there are the ones with the stylized names with pictures incorporated in them. Or the name written in a font that makes them all but unreadable till you are right on top of them.

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Illegal for USCG documented vessels, but does it concern for us "tiny tot" recreational vehicles?