Blue Water Boat and the Caribbean

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
You might have this already but I would highly recommend "Gentleman's Guide to Passages South". This book will give you information on distances between islands as well as prevailing sea conditions for each time of year. Available anchorages through out the islands, etc. This book can really help define the boat you need for this adventure. Sailors can be your best friend and source of info in doing the Caribbean loop, they been doing it for generations in relatively smaller vessels than what you have in mind.
 
We love the KK's quality and economy. The 42 is probably too small for our home for 2-3 years, and the 48 seems to be the next step up. Those are at the very, very upper end (maybe above it, actually) of our price range, unfortunately. Also, KK likes to devote more space for a pilot house than we'd prefer, although we certainly wouldn't rule one out because of that.

A Defever 49 (or 44 +5) cockpit motor yacht also would seem to meet many of your criteria. Huge outdoor spaces, full master stateroom, cockpit for fishing/snorkling etc., spacious ER and often more affordable than a KK of similar size.



DeFever Cruisers - A Club for Yachting Enthusiasts with a Passion for DeFever Vessels and the Cruising Life!
 
Brian, your head seas issue. The Caribbean is a big place. In the Eastern Caribbean the seas will almost always be on the beam as you will be going north and south with the winds generally from the east.

Along the Dominican Republic you will have seas on the beam as you will be going east or west with the wind from the east (on the head or stern) with the Atlantic swell coming from the north. Generally all the sailboats motor sail this area.

In the Virgins you can be going in all directions so you will have head or beam seas as the case may be.

I let others chime in on the Western Caribbean and Mexico.

By the way we waited for 3 weeks last year for the seas to drop below 2 meters.
 
...I let others chime in on the Western Caribbean...By the way we waited for 3 weeks last year for the seas to drop below 2 meters.

It's funny how your weather criteria can change based on where you are. We would look for winds less than 20 knots and seas less than 2 meters when we were in Colombia and the ABC's. In the Caribbean, once the Christmas winds start, they can blow for months with no let up depending on where you are. There are a lot of boats moving around during the transition seasons, spring and fall.
 
Something that tends not to come up, but is surely part of the equation is the period. Give me a long enough period and I'll be much happier in any sea.
 
Something that tends not to come up, but is surely part of the equation is the period. Give me a long enough period and I'll be much happier in any sea.

Actually a major part of the equation. Give me 10' with 15 seconds anytime over 6' at 6 seconds.
 
I'll add that I think a Selene will do what you are asking for and fit your criteria well:
Full displacement
Large Flybridge
2 or 3 cabins
most are 1 engine (w/ a get home)
Come with Active stabilization
"real" engine room (by your definition)
Most come with ice makers
big aft deck
nice swim platform
galley up design
Fuel burn on our Selene 53 (60ft LOA)
3.5 gal/hr at 1400 RPM 6-6.5 kts
6.5 gal/hr at 1800 RPM 8 kts

...but no ours isn't for sale :)

No Mast - we love the Selenes, ever since we saw a couple at our first TrawlerFest about 4 years ago. But either they don't come up for sale often, or they're priced way out of our range, because I don't recall seeing any in any of the searches we've done on Yachtworld - even the searches with our "stretch budget" price range. (Yeah, just looked again - not many available, and the least expensive is a 47' for over $500K. And it doesn't even have two "proper" cabins - just a nice master, and then bunks in the only other one.)

Thanks for the input!
 
You might have this already but I would highly recommend "Gentleman's Guide to Passages South". This book will give you information on distances between islands as well as prevailing sea conditions for each time of year. Available anchorages through out the islands, etc. This book can really help define the boat you need for this adventure. Sailors can be your best friend and source of info in doing the Caribbean loop, they been doing it for generations in relatively smaller vessels than what you have in mind.

Based on another thread here on TF, I ordered it two days ago!
 
Brian: Maybe I missed it but what's your budget complete? (water maker, solar, etc.)

Larry,

No, you didn't miss it - I didn't post it yet. My bad - it's a pretty important part of the equation!

It's going to be very hard to justify more than $400K, all in, for something we don't expect to own for more than 3 years. We'd love to find something for less than $300K that doesn't need more than about $50K in repairs and upgrades.

Hope that helps.
 
A Defever 49 (or 44 +5) cockpit motor yacht also would seem to meet many of your criteria. Huge outdoor spaces, full master stateroom, cockpit for fishing/snorkling etc., spacious ER and often more affordable than a KK of similar size.

We've looked at one, and everything you say is true. The interior living space seemed a bit limited for a full time home... but I have a feeling we'll look at one again, and re-evaluate that.
 
A Hatteras 48LRC would work great, done it many times. Has great range and blue water capabilities. Can get a up dated one for under $300,000.


Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
Capt. Don
 
A Hatteras 48LRC would work great, done it many times. Has great range and blue water capabilities. Can get a up dated one for under $300,000.


Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
Capt. Don

Any Hatteras would do it well.
 
Kevin gave some good advice.
What about a boat like his?

Also, my strong recommendation would be to find the boat with virtually everything you need on it already.

The more the PO used the boat as you intend to use it, the less costly it will be to make it do what you want it to do.
 
"lso, my strong recommendation would be to find the boat with virtually everything you need on it already.

The more the PO used the boat as you intend to use it, the less costly it will be to make it do what you want it to do."

SPOT ON!!


It takes huge time , bucks and effort to take a marina spec boat and use it as an extended cruiser (no marina for most time , )

The boats will be outfitted totally different.

For an inshore cruiser with no expectation for weeks on the hook , its a lot less costly conversion.
 
Any Hatteras would do it well.

A Hatteras 48LRC would work great, done it many times. Has great range and blue water capabilities. Can get a up dated one for under $300,000.

Capt. Don

We have looked at many Hatterases (Hatteri?) online, and we like a lot about them. However, most of them seem to have really big engines - 500HP each, up to 850HP each, most of them turbocharged. They're obviously outfitted that way so that you can get up and go (most advertise cruise speeds in the low to mid teens, and top speeds in the upper teens), but we're just not interested in going fast, because of the fuel cost. (On a very long journey like we're planning, the difference between .3 nmpg and .9 nmpg will result in a much, much larger expenditure for fuel over the life of the journey - tens of thousands of dollars.)

Of course, you can run any boat at idle, or just above that, to keep speeds down, but that can't be good for a diesel engine - to run it so slow for so much of the time. And I doubt the fuel economy at that really low speed is going to be all that great, as that's just not the RPM range those big turbocharged motors are designed to run at. (I recent read that most diesels are most fuel efficient at about 80% of the RPM at which they make their maximum HP. I'm assuming that's at least in the ballpark?)

I'd love to get input from anyone who has experience with a pair of big, turbocharged engines, and also a concern for fuel economy. How do you balance those two? Or do you?
 
We have looked at many Hatterases (Hatteri?) online, and we like a lot about them. However, most of them seem to have really big engines - 500HP each, up to 850HP each, most of them turbocharged. They're obviously outfitted that way so that you can get up and go (most advertise cruise speeds in the low to mid teens, and top speeds in the upper teens), but we're just not interested in going fast, because of the fuel cost. (On a very long journey like we're planning, the difference between .3 nmpg and .9 nmpg will result in a much, much larger expenditure for fuel over the life of the journey - tens of thousands of dollars.)

Of course, you can run any boat at idle, or just above that, to keep speeds down, but that can't be good for a diesel engine - to run it so slow for so much of the time. And I doubt the fuel economy at that really low speed is going to be all that great, as that's just not the RPM range those big turbocharged motors are designed to run at. (I recent read that most diesels are most fuel efficient at about 80% of the RPM at which they make their maximum HP. I'm assuming that's at least in the ballpark?)

I'd love to get input from anyone who has experience with a pair of big, turbocharged engines, and also a concern for fuel economy. How do you balance those two? Or do you?

Well, at Hatteras 60 with twin 1135's will get 0.83 nmpg at 10 knots, 1.2 nmpg at 7 knots. As to running it at that speed, most would recommend speeding up at least a couple of times a day. With small hp engines like 500 or 850 it will be even better. Then there are the times you'll be very happy you have the extra speed available. Now, will they ever quite get the economy of a full displacement hull with a 120 hp single? No. But they can be reasonably economic.

Fuel is only one aspect of economic. Keep that in mind. A relatively small part of it for most users.

Now many of the other boats mentioned would be excellent, from the Defever's to the KK's. You are right that compared to the Hatteras they tend to have less living space but still good space. Probably more than you want to pay but a Fleming 55 would be great.

On the other hand a GB in the 50' range would handle things well. Not as well as a Nordhavn in the same size, but well enough for the purposes of most cruising those areas.
 
We have looked at many Hatterases (Hatteri?) online, and we like a lot about them. However, most of them seem to have really big engines - 500HP each, up to 850HP each, most of them turbocharged.

Limit your search to the Long Range Cruiser (LRC) version of the Hat. They will typically have smaller HP engines and greater fuel capacity.
 
You might have this already but I would highly recommend "Gentleman's Guide to Passages South". This book will give you information on distances between islands as well as prevailing sea conditions for each time of year. Available anchorages through out the islands, etc. This book can really help define the boat you need for this adventure. Sailors can be your best friend and source of info in doing the Caribbean loop, they been doing it for generations in relatively smaller vessels than what you have in mind.

I've been reading this for about a week, and while there is certainly a lot of good information in it, here's what I'm finding:

1. Unless you are a pretty experienced sailor (i.e., sail boats), you practically need an interpreter to understand a lot of what he writes, because of all the jargon. (I'm not, so I'm sure I'm missing may of his points, because I don't know the sailing jargon.)

2. His writing style seems more conversational than instructional. Many, many places where he describes a situation he's been in, but doesn't explicitly tell you the lesson he's trying to get across, so again, I'm left guessing.

3. Although he switched from sails to diesel in the latter part of his cruising, it seems as though he wrote the book while still sailing, so the vast majority of it is sailing-specific. (Yes, I know the wind affects all boats, but it affects trawlers and motor yachts very differently than it does sailboats that are trying not to use their motors very much.)

4. Finally, the edition I have, which is the last one, I think (10th Edition) was published in 2012, which means it was probably written in 2011. So I wonder about some of the location-specific info, about Customs and marinas and such - are they still accurate?

There's enough in it to be useful, for sure - but I'm not sure how useful it will be in helping us decide what kind of boat we should buy, since it's NOT going to be a sailboat.
 
Kevin gave some good advice.
What about a boat like his?

I just looked at several on Yachtworld. Nice layout (for our purposes), but:
- Looks like the engines are accessed by lifting the salon floor, with practically no space above them once you'r down there. That's what we have now, and I really want more engine room than that. I'll be doing every bit of work I'm capable of, and I want some room in which to operate.
- At 30,000 lbs for a 48' boat, it seems a little light for a "blue water" boat - doesn't it? Might it not get tossed about pretty badly in the 4' - 5' seas that, despite all efforts to avoid, I'm sure we'll find ourselves in from time to time?
- No offense to Kevin or anyone else intended, but as long as I've been around boats, I've always heard Bayliners described as "entry level" and "production boats", with fit and finish, construction methods, and materials that just aren't up to, say, a Hatteras or Defever. Is that reputation unfair? I really have no idea - I've never owned one.

Also, my strong recommendation would be to find the boat with virtually everything you need on it already. The more the PO used the boat as you intend to use it, the less costly it will be to make it do what you want it to do.

Amen to that! The more a boat is equipped the way we want it, the higher it ranks on our list of boats to seriously consider.
 
Brian

Seems like you are on the right track. Suggest you avoid vessels with DD 2 cycles that are in the 400+ HP range, as you say you just don't need that HP and possible issues that could arise from idling along at 7 or 8 knots. The DD 4-53s are generally good motors but like the Lehmans, old. This is a great time and opportunity for you to get something newer with current century engines.
 
Well, at Hatteras 60 with twin 1135's will get 0.83 nmpg at 10 knots, 1.2 nmpg at 7 knots. As to running it at that speed, most would recommend speeding up at least a couple of times a day. With small hp engines like 500 or 850 it will be even better. Then there are the times you'll be very happy you have the extra speed available. Now, will they ever quite get the economy of a full displacement hull with a 120 hp single? No. But they can be reasonably economic.

If that's true, then that's OK. I'm not expecting to get 2 nmpg - but I sure don't want to get .5, either. Anything in the neighborhood of 1.0 at 7 - 8 kts is going to get serious consideration. As long as running at that speed isn't going to increase the maintenance costs of the engines, or seriously shorten their life.

Fuel is only one aspect of economic. Keep that in mind. A relatively small part of it for most users.

I'm sure there are other things that are more expensive, but fuel economy would seem to be the biggest factor in the VARIABLE expense category, is it not? Assuming two boats making the same 1,000 mile island hopping journey over a 6 month period (just as an example), both staying in marinas or at anchor the same amount, with the same eating habits for the crew, and no damage repairs - what else will even come close to the dollar difference between one of them at .5 nmpg and one at 1.0? (The difference is $4,000 for $4 per gallon gas, $5,000 for $5 gas, etc.)
 
If that's true, then that's OK. I'm not expecting to get 2 nmpg - but I sure don't want to get .5, either. Anything in the neighborhood of 1.0 at 7 - 8 kts is going to get serious consideration. As long as running at that speed isn't going to increase the maintenance costs of the engines, or seriously shorten their life.







I'm sure there are other things that are more expensive, but fuel economy would seem to be the biggest factor in the VARIABLE expense category, is it not? Assuming two boats making the same 1,000 mile island hopping journey over a 6 month period (just as an example), both staying in marinas or at anchor the same amount, with the same eating habits for the crew, and no damage repairs - what else will even come close to the dollar difference between one of them at .5 nmpg and one at 1.0? (The difference is $4,000 for $4 per gallon gas, $5,000 for $5 gas, etc.)


I would say the biggest expenses will be repairs, maintenance and upgrades, so the emphasis should be on finding a well maintained, already updated boat. IMO.
 
I just looked at several on Yachtworld. Nice layout (for our purposes), but:
- Looks like the engines are accessed by lifting the salon floor, with practically no space above them once you'r down there. That's what we have now, and I really want more engine room than that. I'll be doing every bit of work I'm capable of, and I want some room in which to operate.
- At 30,000 lbs for a 48' boat, it seems a little light for a "blue water" boat - doesn't it? Might it not get tossed about pretty badly in the 4' - 5' seas that, despite all efforts to avoid, I'm sure we'll find ourselves in from time to time?
- No offense to Kevin or anyone else intended, but as long as I've been around boats, I've always heard Bayliners described as "entry level" and "production boats", with fit and finish, construction methods, and materials that just aren't up to, say, a Hatteras or Defever. Is that reputation unfair? I really have no idea - I've never owned one.

Brian, while i would not hesitate to take my Bayliner into the Caribbean, it would not be my first choice if that were my only operating area.

As far as engine room access be very careful about that. If you cannot stand up pretty straight in your engine room, it can be much more comfortable to remove the floor panels, allowing unlimited ability to work on the engines. I was recently on a friends boat and while his engine room seemed nice and tall, when you actually got inside you were still stooping more than you'd think, and his floors were not removable, making it actually less fun than my engine room.

As far as fit and finish goes, it is not on par with say a Grand Banks, but is pretty much the same as other production boats I've seen, from a visual perspective.

From a mechanical and materials perspective The Bayliner 4788 lacks nothing, and even has some advantages over some other boats. The main advantage is engineering and longevity of the production run in terms of numbers built and to some extent time.

There are allot of boats on the market that while the base design was done by a famous name Naval Architect, the actual construction, and many of the decisions regarding materials were in the hands of the ship yard over seas that interpreted the design, and actually built a boat.

Bayliner with the 4788 assembled a team of Naval Architects and other engineering professionals who not only designed the boat, they mocked every piece up, and optimized the design. They then oversaw production, making a constant series of improvements during the production run.

The result of this is why you see very few long term problems with the large Motoryachts, especially as you near the end of the production cycle.

As far as materials, well it's the same stuff you'll find with any other boat. My boat has Cummins engines, and hurth transmissions, PSS shaft seals, 2" shafts, and Nibrial props. The generators were westerbeke, the sea strainers and other hardware is Perko, all standard stuff.
 
Last edited:
Limit your search to the Long Range Cruiser (LRC) version of the Hat. They will typically have smaller HP engines and greater fuel capacity.

GREAT INFO! We hadn't really noticed that distinction before. The 48 LRC looks promising, and the 58 LRC looks awesome! Will look for as many examples of these as we can find.
 
Brian, while i would not hesitate to take my Bayliner into the Caribbean, it would not be my first choice if that were my only operating area.

Kevin - since the Caribbean IS going to be our only operating area - I'm curious why you say that about your Bayliner? What WOULD be your first choice? (Assuming it would do some things, or somehow be, different from your Bayliner - knowing those things might be very helpful to me.)

As far as engine room access be very careful about that. If you cannot stand up pretty straight in your engine room, it can be much more comfortable to remove the floor panels, allowing unlimited ability to work on the engines. I was recently on a friends boat and while his engine room seemed nice and tall, when you actually got inside you were still stooping more than you'd think, and his floors were not removable, making it actually less fun than my engine room.

Agree completely on the need to be able to actually stand up! But, I really hope I don't have to remove the salon floor to do that. That's what I've got with our Gulfstar, and quite frankly, it's a real PITA to remove all 4 panels and stow them somewhere.
 
My first choice would be a stabilized vessel. Just for thecomfort of roll dampening, not the safety.

While you could add fins to a 4788, and they have been done with great results, you can buy something that already has stabilizers.

The next time my boat makes it to Anacortes I'll probably add fins. If I had it to do over again I would have added them during our refit.
 
Back
Top Bottom