Thread Creep Bucket: Helms, Colregs and Trains

markpierce said:

Locomotive engineer controls are located on the "starboard" side.

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Except in the UK where the locomotive engineer's position is on the left and the fireman on the right and trains run on the opposite sides of a double track mainline than they do in North America. This still holds true today.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Gee, not too bad. 200+ postings on techniques/inventions before we drifted into rules of the road. I think it was post #'s 210 and 211 that did us in so may I suggest techniques/inventions please. THAT'S the interesting stuff.

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I meant post 236 as a key trick/technique.

BandB said:

I've seen people more interested in asserting their rights or arguing navigation rules than just doing the common sense thing and backing away to avoid an accident. If you can avert an accident or even a stressful situation, then just do so. I've stopped completely when in a narrow way or approaching congestion just to let the others clear. You see a madhouse occasionally on a bridge opening.

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Absolutely, I give way regularly in the marina fairway (main channel) when afternoon cruisers leave the bar and enter the fairway without looking. 50' SF and I are on either side of the fuel dock filling. SF starts to pull away from the dock as a 30' cruiser coming from behind tries to go around the SF. SF backs down and starts yelling. Alcohol fueled captain of the cruiser (that never even slowed down) says, "I never saw you moving because you're too big". SF captain responds, "you need to go back to the bar and have another drink".

I have always said that the most dangerous part of running wreck diving charters is making it safely back from the seabuoy to my slip on Saturday afternoon.

Ted

menzies said:

The dangerous part is coming in from the Atlantic using red right returning and hitting the ICW going north, where it changes to red to the west, green to the east. If there happens to be a shoal before you worked it out....

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Just remember in most cases red is on the mainland side of the channel in the ICW. Forget about red, right, returning on the ICW. Other then say leaving it to head out to sea or into a harbour.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Just remember in most cases red is on the mainland side of the channel in the ICW. Forget about red, right, returning on the ICW. Other then say leaving it to head out to sea or into a harbour.

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I always used the meme; "Red earth (mainland), green water (ocean)"
But you are right it is most (almost all) cases... double check for that little yellow square or triangle!

menzies said:

When you are passing bow to bow with another vessel you keep her to your port side and she does likewise. Imagine the waterway as a two lane highway. You stay to your side and she stays to hers.

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Thanks Menzies. I am familiar with rules in head-on situations but just had never heard of it referred to as "port to port". This may save me some considerable embarrassment.

dhays said:

Thanks Menzies. I am familiar with rules in head-on situations but just had never heard of it referred to as "port to port". This may save me some considerable embarrassment.

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You may on the radio hear it called a "one whistle" pass.

Especially if you monitor channel 13 on a second radio.

Capt.Bill11 said:

You may on the radio hear it called a "one whistle" pass.

Especially if you monitor channel 13 on a second radio.

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Actually that's not quite accurate. The one and two whistle passes are used when overtaking someone from astern to let them know, first that you are there and passing, and secondly to let them know which side. This is often joined with a request for a slow pass. The slow pass is to give the boat being passed a more comfortable time and to speed up the procedure.

How in the H E double hockey sticks did this turn into a fricken basic navigation thread?

menzies said:

Actually that's not quite accurate. The one and two whistle passes are used when overtaking someone from astern to let them know, first that you are there and passing, and secondly to let them know which side. This is often joined with a request for a slow pass. The slow pass is to give the boat being passed a more comfortable time and to speed up the procedure.

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They also apply when meeting bow to bow.

Thread Creep posts moved from another thread.

Passing an oncoming boat with your port side to his port side.

hmason said:

Passing an oncoming boat with your port side to his port side.

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Don't forget to give one nice loud blast of yer horn to keep him over there too!

menzies said:

Actually that's not quite accurate. The one and two whistle passes are used when overtaking someone from astern to let them know, first that you are there and passing, and secondly to let them know which side. This is often joined with a request for a slow pass. The slow pass is to give the boat being passed a more comfortable time and to speed up the procedure.

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INLAND— Sound and Light Signals
RULE 34
Maneuvering and Warning Signals
(a) When power-driven vessels are in sight of one another and meeting or
crossing at a distance within half a mile of each other, each vessel underway, when maneuvering as authorized or required by these Rules:
(i) shall indicate that maneuver by the following signals on her whistle: one short blast to mean “I intend to leave you on my port side”; two short blasts to mean “I intend to leave you on my starboard side”; and three short blasts to mean “I am operating astern propulsion”.
(ii) upon hearing the one or two blast signal of the other shall, if in agreement, sound the same whistle signal and take the steps necessary to effect a safe passing. If, however, from any cause, the vessel doubts the safety of the proposed maneuver, she shall sound the danger signal specified in paragraph (d) of this Rule and each vessel shall take appropriate precautionary action until a safe passing agreement is made.
(b) A vessel may supplement the whistle signals prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule by light signals:
(i) These signals shall have the following significance: one flash to mean “I intend to leave you on my port side”; two flashes to mean “I intend to leave you on my starboard side”; three flashes to mean “I am operating astern propulsion”;
(ii) The duration of each flash shall be about 1 second; and
(iii) The light used for this signal shall, if fitted, be one all-round white or yellow light, visible at a minimum range of 2 miles, synchronized with the whistle, and shall comply with the provisions of Annex I to these Rules.

Good man. I will make sure to blow one blast at every approaching vessel. It will give the kids on the bow riders something to laugh at anyway!

I see the wisdom of the Regs. Capt Bill posted, especially the response system, so each boat has an understanding of the other boat`s intentions and has communicated it. Collisions are often the result of someone doing the unexpected, be it on the road or on water, whether lawful or not.
The one and two blasts also signal respectively a turn to stbd, and to port. It`s to similar effect.

BruceK said:

The one and two blasts also signal respectively a turn to stbd, and to port. It`s to similar effect.

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That's one I just can not seem to remember! Is it one to port, or two to port? Does anyone have an easy to remember memory jog?

FlyWright said:

That's one I just can not seem to remember! Is it one to port, or two to port? Does anyone have an easy to remember memory jog?

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I`m fairly confident. If you check Bill`s post, sounding one for "I`ll pass you on my port" necessitates, when boats approach each other head on, a turn to stbd so that can happen. But, my brain is more addled than usual, doing my tax. No idea of a mnemonic to help remember it.

FlyWright said:

That's one I just can not seem to remember! Is it one to port, or two to port? Does anyone have an easy to remember memory jog?

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Think of it this way. The word port is ONE word or syllable. And the word starboard is TWO.

So let's ask the question: how many people give a single blast when head-on passing every boat?

If I did that on the ICW, I would probably be arrested for disturbing the peace.

Greetings,
Mr. m. How many fellow boaters are even aware of the significance or meaning of whistle signals? Similarly, the meaning of a hoisted black ball during daylight hours (vessel is anchored). As recreational boaters, one would like to think that we have some knowledge of COLREGS but I suspect this is not always the case.

BandB said:

Wifey B: Was pretty sure it was the same....Right...starboard....tomato....tomahto.....hehe...so they drive on the port side.

I do find it strange, although not surprising, that there is one convention at sea but two on land. I would think when learning to handle a boat it could be a bit confusing at first to someone use to driving on the left side of the road.

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You might well think that, but actually it has never been an issue here in Aus. Ok, there are some who clearly have no idea that the seagoing convention is different, but that's just ignorance, and much rarer now everyone here has to get a boat licence. So, the vast majority have no trouble with it at all. Maybe it's because the sea is so different from land anyway, so no real surprise the rules differ. However, the interesting thing is that at sea even though one travels on the right (st'bd) side of a channel and passes port to port, one still gives way to the right if a vessel is coming from your starboard side, which is like our road rule, and opposite to yours I think..?

Coming back to the buoy/beacon thing though. If I understand correctly, you in North America observe red right returning, which I interpret as meaning when leaving port, the green beacons are kept to your right, and reds to your left. If so, that is exactly opposite to the rest of the world, who follow the convention that the buoys or beacons are such that the direction to the nearest main port is the reference point, with greens kept right going towards this, and the reverse when going in the opposite direction. For rivers, the upriver direction dictates that green is to starboard and red to port - the reverse going downriver. Again opposite to the US (and ? Canada), if my understanding is correct.

menzies said:

So let's ask the question: how many people give a single blast when head-on passing every boat?

If I did that on the ICW, I would probably be arrested for disturbing the peace.

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We use the radio if there is any doubt or when overtaking. If no response, then blast the appropriate horn signal. You will almost never get the acknowledging blast(s) back, especially from a rec boater.

Peter B said:

You might well think that, but actually it has never been an issue here in Aus. Ok, there are some who clearly have no idea that the seagoing convention is different, but that's just ignorance, and much rarer now everyone here has to get a boat licence. So, the vast majority have no trouble with it at all. Maybe it's because the sea is so different from land anyway, so no real surprise the rules differ. However, the interesting thing is that at sea even though one travels on the right (st'bd) side of a channel and passes port to port, one still gives way to the right if a vessel is coming from your starboard side, which is like our road rule, and opposite to yours I think..?

Coming back to the buoy/beacon thing though. If I understand correctly, you in North America observe red right returning, which I interpret as meaning when leaving port, the green beacons are kept to your right, and reds to your left. If so, that is exactly opposite to the rest of the world, who follow the convention that the buoys or beacons are such that the direction to the nearest main port is the reference point, with greens kept right going towards this, and the reverse when going in the opposite direction. For rivers, the upriver direction dictates that green is to starboard and red to port - the reverse going downriver. Again opposite to the US (and ? Canada), if my understanding is correct.

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Red right returning is for returning from the sea.

Old deckhand said:

Red right returning is for returning from the sea.

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Some of the time.

I'm always so amused by debates about Colregs, as if life is ever that neat and tidy, especially among recreational boaters, but even commercial or large boats like these:


Maybe if the captain sent a member of the crew to the bowsprit with a megaphone to read the Colregs to that fishing trawler the collision could have been avoided. (I know there are a million boat collisions on YouTube but to me that one is a perfect example of why these debates about regulatory compliance don't have much connection to reality once you cast off (hmmm, kind of like the boat documentation thread come to think of it)).

Old deckhand said:

Red right returning is for returning from the sea.

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Hawgwash said:

Some of the time.

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.. and only in some parts of the world. Region B.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. m. How many fellow boaters are even aware of the significance or meaning of whistle signals? Similarly, the meaning of a hoisted black ball during daylight hours (vessel is anchored). As recreational boaters, one would like to think that we have some knowledge of COLREGS but I suspect this is not always the case.

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You read this month's PassageMaker too huh?

menzies said:

So let's ask the question: how many people give a single blast when head-on passing every boat?

If I did that on the ICW, I would probably be arrested for disturbing the peace.

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I signal if it looks like a collision or confusion is apparent (unless the other vessel is a ship in which blowing a horn won't help). This is rare. Usually make course adjustment long before that.

Greetings,
Mr. M. "You read this month's PassageMaker too huh?" Definitely NOT. I severed all connections with that rag when they became a mouthpiece for their "resident expert" AND a printed advertisement for new high end vessels. NOT what Bill Pantaloon (sp?) intended at all, I suspect. For the first number of years I was an ardent subscriber because the articles, for the most part, were directed to the "average" boat/trawler owner.