Thread Creep Bucket: Helms, Colregs and Trains

BandB said:

Wifey B: That or she's British. Now, that brings up a question I'd never thought of. I mean we drive on the right side of the road and right side of the channel. I'd assumed this was a worldwide convention but now asking do those who drive on the left side of the road drive to the right or left in the channel?

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No, it's totally different. Everybody's stays on the starboard side not the left or right side when in a channel.

Ted

When building my ride, I put the helm on stbd for a reason. It was so it would balance the suntan on my arms. Car and truck get left arm, boat gets the right.

Ski in NC said:

When building my ride, I put the helm on stbd for a reason. It was so it would balance the suntan on my arms. Car and truck get left arm, boat gets the right.

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Of all the explanations I've heard for helm position, this one makes the most sense!! Of course, that's why so many of our friends down under put their helms on the port side.

Interesting and very surprising last bunch of posts. When I was learning to drive I would gingerly drive between parked cars lining a narrow street, looking from one side to the other. Then as I got used to the sight picture I got to where I could drive at speed down the same road with learned judgement and periferal vision keeping me centered between the parked cars.

I find boats to be no different at all. Our PNW's boats have their helms offset to the right. One all the way to the right, the other just slightly to the right. We go back and forth between these boats all year. Neither my wife nor I have any problems holding a stright line, staying in the middle of a narrow channel or the fairways in harbors. We don't "reference" anything on or in the boat, we just look out the forward windows same as we do a car (or a floatplane on the water where the pilot's seat is on the left).

We also drive in the UK a lot and neither of us have a problem swithing sides in a vehicle. Actually my wife says I'm a better driver there than here.

We prefer driving the boat from the lower helm where deck access is easier and faster during dockings. Even though we can't even see the port side of the boat at all we have no problem knowing exactly where it is.

This is not just us. The people we boat with are exactly the same way.

We do have a friend who when he had to buy a new car a few years ago had to have one with a ridge down the center of the hood. Without it, he says, he cannot tell where the car is in a lane. He couldn't find one so his brother, who owned a BWW repair shop at the time, stuck a BMW badge on the hood of the Buick he eventually bought.

So I know there are people who have difficulty keeping things centered or going straight using vision and judgement alone. But it always surprises me when I hear or read about it because I can't imagine having to do it. For maneuvering a boat or holding a lne it would seem to be something of a handicap.

My trick was I just went ahead and bought a boat with centerline helms!

O C Diver said:

No, it's totally different. Everybody's stays on the starboard side not the left or right side when in a channel.

Ted

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Wifey B: Was pretty sure it was the same....Right...starboard....tomato....tomahto.....hehe...so they drive on the port side.

I do find it strange, although not surprising, that there is one convention at sea but two on land. I would think when learning to handle a boat it could be a bit confusing at first to someone use to driving on the left side of the road.

George- That's certainly the smart solution

As to finding right side, left side, be it on land or in the water, confusing, to me it's always been simply learning to operate whatever it is in whatever manner it's supposed to be operated.

The time I was taken out on the RNLI 47' motor lifeboat William Street out of Fleetwood, England, they let me con the boat most of the training exercise on Morcambe Bay.

When the boat's skipper started pointing out what channel markers to use as guides it seemed a bit odd as they were all the opposite of red-right-returning. Not wanting to run the boat agound at 20 knots or whatever we were doing I pointed this out, as though an RNLI skipper with a decade or two of experience wouldn't know his home waters.

That's when I learned that much of the planet does their nav markers the other way round from the US and Canada. Once I knew that I didn't have to think about it anymore. It simply became the way it is when running a boat in that part of the world.

BandB said:

Wifey B: Was pretty sure it was the same....Right...starboard....tomato....tomahto.....hehe...so they drive on the port side.

I do find it strange, although not surprising, that there is one convention at sea but two on land. I would think when learning to handle a boat it could be a bit confusing at first to someone use to driving on the left side of the road.

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In most of the countries where they drive on the left, isn't the steering wheel on the right side of the car? Wonder if that makes it easier transitioning to a boat as often the helm is on that same side.

Ted

Greetings,
Thread drift alert: Keeping to the right in channels (passing port to port) is not a law as far as I'm aware. It is simply a convention. I've occasionally passed approaching vessels starboard to starboard.

FlyWright said:

..that's why so many of our friends down under put their helms on the port side.

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Current helm is to stbd, previous boat was to port. Both Aussie designed. Go figure.
We drive on the left, but keep to stbd on the water. I`ve never had a problem driving cars on the right in USA, Canada, Europe, just seems to work, I`ve put serious kms on some rental cars. At Frankfurt I stepped out of a plane after 24hrs + (ok,we had lie flat seats) into a LHD German car, no problems.

Actually the International agreement states that in a channel, the larger steel hulled vessel shall go where they want and all others shall move out of the way. This is known as the international law of gross tonnage or simply "the right of weight".

Ted

This thread is interesting to me as I've never given much thought to which side the helm is on when I purchase a boat. I've had helms on the left, center and right several times and never experienced trouble dealing with them. My present boat's helm is in the center and I must admit that since my slip is narrower than I would like, the center helm is an advantage in this case.

I also believe that most helms, if not in the center of the boat, are to starboard as the helmsman will clearly see boats approaching from starboard, which is important in that they, in most recreational cases, have right of way.

O C Diver said:

In most of the countries where they drive on the left, isn't the steering wheel on the right side of the car? Wonder if that makes it easier transitioning to a boat as often the helm is on that same side.

Ted

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Wifey B: As RTF points out that in most places it's just convention but still I find it interesting. I found the steering wheel deal strange too. Cars always on the inside. Boats heavily starboard but you do see them everywhere. Actually all our boats are center. Most Pilothouses are, all center consoles are. Most bridge helms are. On the lake ours was starboard.

One of the reasons for the stbd helm is aton on the stbd side ,keep to the stbd side of the channel for port to port meeting.

Locomotive engineer controls are located on the "starboard" side.

markpierce said:

Locomotive engineer controls are located on the "starboard" side.

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That's because the platform is always on the starboard side...

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Thread drift alert: Keeping to the right in channels (passing port to port) is not a law as far as I'm aware. It is simply a convention. I've occasionally passed approaching vessels starboard to starboard.

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RT
Back on the early 80s I took the Six Pac class port to port was taught in the rules of the road. I also noted that it was in the USCG licensing exam. Perhaps it is not the law and things have changed. Out of habit I do port to port.

There are a number of narrow channels here and often the skippers will request port to port.

As far as I can fathom my helm position was designed to be portside for a pretty basic reason.

With a single engine, the prop walks to port when in reverse, therefore it is always safest/easiest to come alongside portside to.

The boat is set up to allow the helmsperson to reach the forward breastline cleat while still having throttle and gears to hand.

That setup, along with the wide sidedecks, makes single-handling this a 50ft LOD, 60ft LOA boat a pleasure for this old fart.

Old deckhand said:

RT
Back on the early 80s I took the Six Pac class port to port was taught in the rules of the road. I also noted that it was in the USCG licensing exam. Perhaps it is not the law and things have changed. Out of habit I do port to port.

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Being completely ignorant, can you please describe what is meant by "port to port"?

Marin said:

That's when I learned that much of the planet does their nav markers the other way round from the US and Canada. Once I knew that I didn't have to think about it anymore. It simply became the way it is when running a boat in that part of the world.

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The attached pic shows the areas of the world where the two buoyage systems apply.

Far too many boaters take Red Right Returning as absolute and wind up where they shouldn't be. Puget Sound and the BC coast are full of examples where it can be confusing as to when you are actually returning. Then, the direction north and/or flood current come into play. Reading charts, as everyone here knows is imperative.

Locally, the area around Nanaimo has floods running in many directions. Satellite Channel near Swartz Bay, same thing and a great learning area day and night. So many buoys by day and at night, there are a couple of spots where as many as 17 lights can be seen. Red, white and green, many sequences and several duplicates. It's fun to just sit with the appropriate chart and figure it all out.

Also some trivia; the east side of Vancouver Island (Johnstone Strait etc.) floods from north and south. Mitlenatch Island is said to be where the two floods meet. Mitlenatch is Sliammon or Salish for calm on all sides.

dhays said:

Being completely ignorant, can you please describe what is meant by "port to port"?

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When you are passing bow to bow with another vessel you keep her to your port side and she does likewise. Imagine the waterway as a two lane highway. You stay to your side and she stays to hers.

Overriding all of this is the cardinal rule - avoid a collision. If you are on her starboard side (and she on yours), just power down and wait until she passes rather than try and rectify just to meet the port to port rule, as that would mean you crossing her bow. Or, through use of communications clearly state that you will pass to her starboard. If you do that you should make sure to get an acknowledgement.

I was once traveling from Great Sale Cay to Spanish in the Bahamas and two very large yachts approached at WOT (80-90 footers). We were in a fairly open sea but they were obviously following the Dodge route as was I. They were about a half mile apart. The first cut across my bow going port to starboard near enough to throw a significant wake. My boat could handle it being on my port quarter, but there was some safety concern. I radioed the second yacht and asked for a port to port. He instantly changed course and complied. This also gave the benefit in that we passed stern to stern rather than bow to bow, so much less chance of a collision because of bad judgement.

The dangerous part is coming in from the Atlantic using red right returning and hitting the ICW going north, where it changes to red to the west, green to the east. If there happens to be a shoal before you worked it out....

Greetings,
Mr. d. When approaching an oncoming vessel the convention is to stay on the right side (your starboard) of the channel and pass said approaching vessel with it on your port side. Aforementioned approaching vessel will do the same and you will pass each other with your port side on his port side. STILL don't know if it's only convention or a law. You are required by law to stay to the right to pass an approaching vehicle on a road.

menzies said:

The dangerous part is coming in from the Atlantic using red right returning and hitting the ICW going north, where it changes to red to the west, green to the east. If there happens to be a shoal before you worked it out....

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I think someone already said it here: "When in doubt, stop the boat and get out of doubt!"

Greetings,
Gee, not too bad. 200+ postings on techniques/inventions before we drifted into rules of the road. I think it was post #'s 210 and 211 that did us in so may I suggest techniques/inventions please. THAT'S the interesting stuff.

On my rather light planing boat, the right hand wheel lifts the stbd side, other than suntan balance that is the technical reason for stbd helm. Boats with left hand wheels, helm on port. Weight of the helmsman helps balance when under way. Only applies to light boats where helmsman weight could have any effect.

At cruise my shaft is putting down about 830ft lbs at 200hp and 20kts. I am 175lbs standing about four feet stbd of center line. 4'x175lb is 700ft lb using a moment calc. Pretty dang close.

Need more cheeseburger to balance exactly.

caltexflanc said:

I think someone already said it here: "When in doubt, stop the boat and get out of doubt!"

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Combine that with:

This is the grave of Mike O’Day
Who died maintaining his right of way.
His right was clear, his will was strong,
But he’s just as dead as if he’d been wrong.​

I've seen people more interested in asserting their rights or arguing navigation rules than just doing the common sense thing and backing away to avoid an accident. If you can avert an accident or even a stressful situation, then just do so. I've stopped completely when in a narrow way or approaching congestion just to let the others clear. You see a madhouse occasionally on a bridge opening.

BandB said:

Combine that with:

This is the grave of Mike O’Day
Who died maintaining his right of way.
His right was clear, his will was strong,
But he’s just as dead as if he’d been wrong.​

I've seen people more interested in asserting their rights or arguing navigation rules than just doing the common sense thing and backing away to avoid an accident. If you can avert an accident or even a stressful situation, then just do so. I've stopped completely when in a narrow way or approaching congestion just to let the others clear. You see a madhouse occasionally on a bridge opening.

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Actually, it is really not an option. Here in the US, it is in the regs. Superceding all other rules a vessel MUST do all possible to avoid a collision.

menzies said:

Actually, it is really not an option. Here in the US, it is in the regs. Superceding all other rules a vessel MUST do all possible to avoid a collision.

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I know that and you know that, but some obviously don't like it. They want to cite and argue Colregs and apparently know all the regs except that one, the one that counts the most.