Deck Cranes and Dinghy Davits

markpierce wrote:

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nomadwilly wrote: *But my all time favorite boat remains the Nordhavn 46.

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Wouldn't we all want one.
Ummm.... no.* With the exception of their older 50' I think all Nordhavn models are very awkward looking from an aesthetic standpoint.* No question they are excellent "passagemakers."* But with the exception of the fifty-footer, they're all ugly as hell in my book.

Another thing*we have not liked about the couple of Nordhavns*we've been on are the relatively small interior compartments.* The boats' interiors*seemed very "cut up" to us.

BUT.... I understand the reasoning for this.* If you are out at sea and the sea gets nasty the last thing you want is to be thrown around (or have things thrown around in) a big, spacious compartment.* So in the context of ocean voyages the Nordhavn's*relatively small compartments and companionways make all sorts of sense.

But since we have no intention of doing any open ocean work (been there, done that, got the T-shirt), there are boats with far better interior layouts for our Inside Passage*requirements.

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-- Edited by Marin on Friday 7th of January 2011 07:51:30 PM

Mike, Marin and O C,The N46 has some issues (I can't recall what they are) but it is the only Nordhavn that is an attractive boat. And to me it's mother of all trawlers. But it actually isn't even a trawler * *..it's a passagemaker. And I prefer trawlers. And if I had the money I'd prolly do just what Mark is doing * * *...building a Coot.

This is a Nordhavn 50 like the one a couple of docks in from us. I don't know how old this model is or when they stopped making it but to me it's the only one of their boats that I think has decent lines. Not great, but at least decent. The apparent freeboard on all Nordhavn's is too high for my taste but once they started going to the forward slanted windshield panels whatever aesthetics they may have had before completely disappeared in my opinion. But then I think that forward slanting windshield destroy the lines of every boat they're on. I can excuse that with tugs and fireboats and such because there's a reason for it but on little recreational boats like most of us have I think they just look stupid. "Wannabe windows" we call them.

Never seen one of doz Marin. You're right it's not bad and not good. There's only one thing I don't like about the N46 and it's more or less fly stuff. Why don't you like it?

nomadwilly wrote:There's only one thing I don't like about the N46 and it's more or less fly stuff. Why don't you like it?

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Besides the price and the fact its passage-making attributes are not what we need for the boating we do, I think it's butt-ugly.* It's also a single-engine boat and we prefer twins (or triples but there aren't many of those around )

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Marin wrote:

I think it's butt-ugly.*

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A great big DITTO

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Nordhavns are a purpose built boat with supporters galore from the bluewater side and detractors (or just plain envy) galore from the non-blue water side. Of all the Nordhavns, I*like*the 55 or new 63*the best because they can handle big water with a 2 person crew.* NH's have great resale value with fast turn around for a boat too. Not many vessels can claim this distinction.

Vertical windows ? Nah, you don't need them until you start shipping water. Then they are great, gravity works.

sunchaser wrote:Vertical windows ? Nah, you don't need them until you start shipping water. Then they are great, gravity works.

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I don't mind vertical windows.* A lot of boats look very good with them.* It's the forward-slanted windows that I think look stupid on boats like ours.* I understand the reasoning behind them but nobody's gonna be taking a SeaSport or an American Tug*or whatever from California to New Zealand except on the back of a freighter.* That's why we call them wannabe windows.

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nomadwilly wrote:

Mike, Marin and O C,
The N46 has some issues (I can't recall what they are) but it is the only Nordhavn that is an attractive boat. And to me it's mother of all trawlers. But it actually isn't even a trawler ..it's a passagemaker. And I prefer trawlers. And if I had the money I'd prolly do just what Mark is doing ...building a Coot.

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Eric,
Nordhavens are f'ugly. They remind me of Hummer SUVs, worthless. As far as a passagemaker, if you were going to buy a Nord, take the money and buy a real passagemaker (steel hull).

I run a fair amount at night and my biggest concern is hitting floating debris from cargo ships. Somewhere between 2,000 and 10,000 containers are lost from container ships every year. While most sink, some float because of their cargo. If you are passage making, you are running at night. If I'm going to be days away from help, I want a steel hull with a real collision bulkhead. IMO, if you are not running at night, you don't need a passagemaker.

Ted

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-- Edited by O C Diver on Friday 7th of January 2011 11:07:01 PM

sunchaser wrote:



Vertical windows ? Nah, you don't need them until you start shipping water. Then they are great, gravity works.

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We had the discussion on the slant on pilothouse windows a few months ago.* Forward-slanting windows have several advantages of which I remember three: they provide for a more spacious pilot house, help reduce reflections,*and are better at deflecting water.* Regardless, they are they only type offered on the Coot, and I wouldn't disqualify one even*if I had an aesthetic objection to them.* And what's the big attraction of backward-slanting windows?* Do you want the boat to look like a runabout or speedboat?

Actually, I find the Coot's forward-slanting windows to be attractive.* They are consistent with the boat's hull-lines which emulate those of*a*"working" trawler.

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Nomadwilly wrote:it is the only Nordhavn that is an attractive boat.

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I agree and have spent a few days on a Nordy 46 about 9 years ago in the Sea of Cortez. My only complaint was the size of the cockpit. (TOO small) I love a generous cockpit on a boat as when the cruising is done, that's where I chill out.





-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Friday 7th of January 2011 11:30:23 PM

markpierce wrote:

Actually, I find the Coot's forward-slanting windows to be attractive.* They are consistent with the boat's hull-lines which emulate those of*a*"working" trawler.

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Working fishboats.....** The Coot (or GB or any other recreational "trawler")*they are not

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Marin, I said the hull, not the superstructure, that resembles a working trawler.

The worker, standing at the Coot's helmsman's position, is demonstrating the location of the vhf radio.* Note the greater*roominess of the pilothouse resulting from the forward-leaning windows.* Backward-leaning windows would have the front of the ceiling much closer to the radio.







-- Edited by markpierce on Friday 7th of January 2011 11:59:32 PM

talk about hijacked thread!

No way the 50 ft waves Mark mentions are going to be a problem for a dinghy hanging off the stern. Its not the height of a wave that matters its the steepness. Those 50 footers are at least 500 ft crest to crest, and the chop on top is of more concern than the height of the wave. Then you look at the height of the dinghy off the water, take the maximum roll into account.
I'd still (and I do have stern mounted davits) put the dinghy off the stern before on the roof.
I have some great shots of my towed dinghy in steep 7 ft waves in Malaspina channel, surfing down towards the stern of my boat. In similar conditions, davit held dinghy is much more stable.

Mark, I also note the lack of dash space with your forward slanting windows. Where can you put your radio? Must you hang it from the roof?

Koliver, a lot of those waves were breaking/cresting.

The Coot has plenty of dash.* There's even space for a good-sized chart table.* How long are your arms, anyway?*


(Someone else's Coot.)


-- Edited by markpierce on Saturday 8th of January 2011 01:24:32 AM

Marin wrote:

* It's the forward-slanted windows that I think look stupid on boats like ours.* I understand the reasoning behind them but nobody's gonna be taking a SeaSport or an American Tug*or whatever from California to New Zealand except on the back of a freighter.* That's why we call them wannabe windows.

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Some might feel forward-slanted windows are ugly and have no functional value.* Nevertheless, commercial vessels not venturing far from harbor sport them.* I don't believe this is a fashion statement but that they have positive functional value.




(Welcome to*Victoria, BC.)*

markpierce wrote:Some might feel forward-slanted windows are ugly and have no functional value.* Nevertheless, commercial vessels not venturing far from harbor sport them.* I don't believe this is a fashion statement but that they have positive functional value.

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I've spent quite a lot of time over the years researching this application and have
concluded that the above statement is valid. (IMHO)

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You guy's don't get it. It's a FAD on yachts.
More space? Naw** ...who needs space way up high. just put the bottom of the windshield further fwd**** ...the same amount you would if you were making fwd slanted windshield
(WS). The space near the bottom of the WS is more usable than up high. Sun shade?
just build a roof overhang like Willy. Keeps the rain off. Works the same as fwd slant.
It's just like tail fins on a car.

Mark, I see it as "whatever blows your dress up".* That Coot is alot of boat for 35'.* You will get alot of economical enjoyment from it.* Looks good to me.

markpierce wrote:Nevertheless, commercial vessels not venturing far from harbor sport them.

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Rght, but pilot boats, tugs, fireboats, rescue boats, etc. HAVE to go out no matter what the weather and water conditions are.* Coastal recreational boats don't.* When Puget Sound is mostly in the air from the wind and a ferry ride looks like this, folks aren't out there in their little toy GBs and Coots and Nordic Tugs.* Vertical or forward-raked windows can have a real benefit on days like this where the likelihood of taking solid water into the windows of a tug, rescue boat, etc. is very real.

I can see it on recreational boats that are designed for ocean work although I think it still looks ugly.* But on coastal cruisers like most of us have--- I agree with Eric.* It's a fad like tailfins.* Same reason our cabin cruisers were named "trawlers" by the marketing folks.* It's image and branding in the hopes of making another sale.* Like the guy who commutes to his job in the city from his house in the suburbs in a Hummer or a giant dualy pickup that never sees anything rougher than the bump at the entrance to his driveway.

We were filming in the control tower of Vancouver International Airport the week before Christmas.* While I was up there I asked the tower manager why all control towers have forward slanting windows, assuming the answer would be to reduce glare.* To my surprise he said it has nothing to do with glare at all.* It's to keep the rain off.* Control towers don't have windshield wipers.* It happened to be raining the night we were shooting and sure enough, the windows remained clear.

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-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 8th of January 2011 11:13:38 AM

Moonstruck wrote:

Mark, I see it as "whatever blows your dress up".* That Coot is alot of boat for 35'.* You will get alot of economical enjoyment from it.* Looks good to me.

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I completely agree. The argument could be made that many elements of boats (other than fundamentals such as the pointy end usually is the bow) in the recreational class are fads. Mark likes the look. End of story.

koliver wrote:

talk about hijacked thread!

No way the 50 ft waves Mark mentions are going to be a problem for a dinghy hanging off the stern. Its not the height of a wave that matters its the steepness. Those 50 footers are at least 500 ft crest to crest, and the chop on top is of more concern than the height of the wave. Then you look at the height of the dinghy off the water, take the maximum roll into account.
I'd still (and I do have stern mounted davits) put the dinghy off the stern before on the roof.
I have some great shots of my towed dinghy in steep 7 ft waves in Malaspina channel, surfing down towards the stern of my boat. In similar conditions, davit held dinghy is much more stable.

Mark, I also note the lack of dash space with your forward slanting windows. Where can you put your radio? Must you hang it from the roof?

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Last summer we were out in steep 8' seas on the nose with the occasional 10 - 12 footers giving us green water over the bow. Our dinghy sitting on the stern platform didn't even get wet. This on a 32 footer.

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Life would be boring if we all had the same views/tastes.

O C Diver wrote:

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Eric,
Nordhavens are f'ugly. They remind me of Hummer SUVs, worthless.*
Ted



Ted. *I don't think you'd appreciate my Hummer H2 with Nordhavn windshield conversion.

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Healhustler,

I think I want your boat........or at least one like it. Doesn't seem like Krogen made very many North Sea Manatees. Really like your pilothouse as opposed to the standard one.

Ted

O C Diver wrote:

Healhustler,

I think I want your boat........or at least one like it. Doesn't seem like Krogen made very many North Sea Manatees. Really like your pilothouse as opposed to the standard one.

Ted

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Ted, LOL. *I think you might be pulling my leg too, but for the record, Krogen says there are only six, which should say something about customer preference (since 93 others were made with the standard configuration). *We Manatee owners know we have style challenged boats that aren't going to win any beauty contests (but are sure to win Miss Congeniality).*

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healhustler wrote:Ted, LOL. I think you might be pulling my leg too, but for the record, Krogen says there are only six, which should say something about customer preference (since 93 others were made with the standard configuration). We Manatee owners know we have style challenged boats that aren't going to win any beauty contests (but are sure to win Miss Congeniality).

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Are there any other differences with the North Sea version other than the pilothouse?

Ted

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O C Diver wrote:

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Are there any other differences with the North Sea version other than the pilothouse?

Ted



Outside of the North Sea style having a hard enclosure and the conventional style typically having soft side and rear enclosures, the rest of boat was pretty much the same. *Many of them were ordered with different touches here and there, but from the same one or two stateroom bulkhead layouts. *Power was 50 Perkins, 90 and 100 Volvos. *The only reason my boat has a 140 Yanmar is because it was switched out in '99 by a previous owner. *Don't know why.

healhustler wrote:
Outside of the North Sea style having a hard enclosure and the conventional style typically having soft side and rear enclosures, the rest of boat was pretty much the same. Many of them were ordered with different touches here and there, but from the same one or two stateroom bulkhead layouts. Power was 50 Perkins, 90 and 100 Volvos. The only reason my boat has a 140 Yanmar is because it was switched out in '99 by a previous owner. Don't know why.

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Have looked at a fair amount of pics on Yacht World of the Manatee pilot house. Might be an interesting prodject to make a North Sea out of a regular Manatee. Remove the windows and roof, and build a new upper half including new doors.

Been reading everything I can on line about Manatees. Seems like a lot of them have had to have there hulls peeled. Do you know if yours was ever peeled?

Ted

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