Windlass suggestions - Rocna holds...bow pulpit does NOT!

Hello all,

We tried to anchor yesterday and had a really bad day. We dropped the Rocna and deployed chain. We were in a bit of a blow and went bar tight on the chain. Unfortunately, at the end of a swing, the anchor rode pulled the bow down in a violent motion. The bow pulpit flex and then fiberglass broke.
So - I will be installing a new pulpit. When working on our Spirit 1500 windlass we found some of the plywood coring of the pulpit was failing. The plan was to fix the pulpit when we get back to Florida...opps.

Now that I know I am putting a new bow pulpit, I am thinking perhaps I should upgrade the windlasses. The Sprint 1500 seems to be perhaps undersized and is not long supported by Lewmar.

I have looked at the Lewmar V3/V4? Also the Maxwell VWC 2500 ?

Suggestions?

I'm Biased toward Maxwell, we have a VWC3500 and it's the bee's knees. Just remember the 3500Lb rating is only on the hydraulic version, I believe the electric variant is only capable of 1200lb's.

Not that this will do you any good at this point, but we never set the anchor against the windlass or the pulpit. We always set it against a stout line cleated to get one of out heavily backed foredeck cleats. Windlass is a Lofrans Tigres.

Marin said:

Not that this will do you any good at this point, but we never set the anchor against the windlass or the pulpit. We always set it against a stout line cleated to get one of out heavily backed foredeck cleats. Windlass is a Lofrans Tigres.

Click to expand...

I use our chain stopper.

We installed a Lofrans Tigress this spring and have been very happy with it.

I have used it to lift approx 320' of 5/16 HT chain and an 80 lb anchor, and it just pulls right along. (yes from 320' deep)

Like others I use a bridle when anchoring. It consists of 5/8" three strand nylon, Rubber shock absorbers tying to our two forward cleats, and a Mantus chain grab.

BTW you really need to check out the Mantus chain grab. It's stout and cannot ever fall off.

Ideal, parts will be available with a phone call if ever needed.

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I certainly wouldn't buy another Lewmar if they stop supporting products. I think Ideal is the best vendor of windlasses: they support everything they've made for the last 70 some years, they are US made and supported, quality is extremely high. Yes the price is high too but it's a one time purchase. Even if you abuse it they can rebuild it.

As for the accident described, this is the reason you want to use a rope snubber on a chain rode, both when the rode is fully deployed, and again when the anchor does not break out on its own. Merely using a chain stopper will still put pressure on the pulpit, and the incident in the OP is not the first I've heard of, as well others who have discovered their pulpit needed re-bedding and/or had developed leaks and rot.

I believe snubbers have been discussed many times here if you look through the archives.

This is the first time I've heard of using a snubber to take the load off the pulpit, though I see how it would accomplish that if rigger properly. I always though the goal was to take the load off the windlass and to provide a little extra spring in the line. I see many snubbers rigged running over a second bow roller, so placing the same load on the pulpit, and the same loading will occur using a chain grabber.

To me, if a pulpit collapses, it is inadequate, either in design or through deterioration.

Another presumably "bulletproof" boat bites the dust.

Snapping a pulpit is pretty rare in my book. ....While expecting one to last through hurricane conditions is foolish...an instantaneous snap before getting a snubber on....well I haven't ever read or heard about one except on little boats like center consoles while trying to power out a stuck anchor.

Most of the bigger windlasses seem to get good reviews....all the little ones seem to have issues with something. I guess if Lemar has had support issues, steer away....but in today's economy...you never know what company might buy your windlass company and bastardize your model line.

Ouch. Snapped the pulpit before a snubber could be attached? That would certainly suck.

Any pics you feel like posting? I'm trying to picture in my mind the damage.

HenryD said:

I have looked at the Lewmar V3/V4? Also the Maxwell VWC 2500 ?

Suggestions?

Click to expand...

Surprised that Muir has not been mentioned! Great windlass and has Zirk fittings for greasing. (Others do not)

Strong vote for Ideal and for snubbers attached to cleats not the pulpit.

My Maxwell 3500 windlass was replaced when I had to fabricate a sheer pin because Maxwell no longer supported the product.

I see many snubbers rigged running over a second bow roller, so placing the same load on the pulpit, and the same loading will occur using a chain grabber.

Click to expand...

Yep, that's bad practice, though the stretch of the line alleviates some of that if you have enough rode and a long enough snubber (which should extend at least to the water line). You see a lot of serious cruisers have the snubber permanently connected to a hefty eye bolt near the water line, which also serves to reduce needed total scope.

The effects of frequent heavy loads on the pulpit are usually not so dramatic (or the roller shears off instead of the whole shebang), but evidence themselves in broken caulk lines, spider cracks, core rot in the pulpit or adjacent foredeck and so on. Obviously, the further the pulpit cantilevers beyond the stem of the boat, the more stress. I like a dual line snubber with a branch to each bow cleat. And remember, if the anchor isn't coming up easily, snub the thing off again before deploying further methods of breaking it out.

Not a fan of bow pulpits.

Most are weak or too heavy. They stick out where they are vulnerable and cost extra moorage. Some anchors (like Claws) nest close in on the bow and only require a bow roller. But they need to be very solidly mounted too. Some anchors like Danforths and Navy anchors nest nicely in a hawspipe.

Of interest is the anchor setup on a new Ranger. A Claw protrudes through the bow well below the fwd deck. Looks quite shippy.

There are alternatives to bow pulpits but there are reasons they are so popular.

PS:

Here's how my snubber set up looks when deployed. Keep a large lazy loop of chain behind it; adds some more weight to the system that the boat has to lift up as it drifts back and seems to hold the hook to the chain better.

Here's my snubber setup, runs from center cleat thru pulpit then down through the D eye on the bow then to the anchor chain.

This is the system we have on the bow of our Nordic Tug 42. Although our preference would be to minimize how far the roller(s) project from the deck, we needed space between the roller and windlass to accommodate the anchor. Plus, with a relatively plumb bow it is nice to keep the anchor away from the stem. (This is a self launching system.)

N4712 said:

Here's my snubber setup, runs from center cleat thru pulpit then down through the D eye on the bow then to the anchor chain.
View attachment 43862

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That's a strange set up if I am reading and looking at it correctly. All the other boats I've seen (which also include a number of sailboats with long bowsprits) with the ring down on the stem have one end of the snubber attached to the ring thence straight to the rode. That setup seems to introduce at least one more, sharp angle, point of chafe and does almost nothing to take strain off the pulpit, hmmm.

caltexflanc said:

That's a strange set up if I am reading and looking at it correctly. All the other boats I've seen (which also include a number of sailboats with long bowsprits) with the ring down on the stem have one end of the snubber attached to the ring thence straight to the rode. That setup seems to introduce at least one more, sharp angle, point of chafe and does almost nothing to take strain off the pulpit, hmmm.

Click to expand...

It's main job is to lower the angle of pull on the chain (besides taking the load off the windlass and chain stopper) Not much chafe in the solid polished stainless eye, not to mention it gets wet. Where it makes contact with ten bow roller I have fire hose that I use as chafe protection. Hundreds of owners use this method without problem. My pulpit is stout, ain't to worried about over stressing it.

Suit yourself, but I've been a student of these things, anchoring 100's of times all up and down most of both coasts and adjacent islands, and this is a new one on me. I've obviously missed those hundreds of boats in our travels. But what really puzzles me is, why add the complication when it is typically done in a much simpler fashion?

Conrad - I was just looking at the AnchorLift roller for our Rocna anchor.


To answer some other questions/posts - we normally use a 3/4" 25' snubber that is connected to a D ring at the waterline but we had not gotten that far in setting the anchor before we determined we needed to retrieve the anchor and move.


We normally have a Rocna 40 as our primary anchor and a Fortress 44 on the second bow roller and rode/windlass. I have not been happy with how the anchors store or retrieve. We tried the Fortress on the starboard roller that comes up through the pulpit instead of over the end, but the arms of the Fortress interfered with the Rocna so we swapped them.


I will look into the Lofrans, Ideal and Muir windlasses. Now that I am replacing the pulpit, it seems the ideal time to replace the windlass.


Cheers,

manyboats said:

There are alternatives to bow pulpits but there are reasons they are so popular.

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ah yep, that'd be sexy women, and whales.

caltex is that rope or what that you are using as the snubber?

And as a general question, how do you hook the snubber to the chain itself? Do you pull back up on the anchor to get enough play in the chain to hook the snubber up?

caltexflanc said:

Suit yourself, but I've been a student of these things, anchoring 100's of times all up and down most of both coasts and adjacent islands, and this is a new one on me. I've obviously missed those hundreds of boats in our travels. But what really puzzles me is, why add the complication when it is typically done in a much simpler fashion?

Click to expand...

Not very complicated at all. A rope runs through the eye and both ends go back up to the boat. The N72 behind us was using the same setup.

what_barnacles said:

caltex is that rope or what that you are using as the snubber?

And as a general question, how do you hook the snubber to the chain itself? Do you pull back up on the anchor to get enough play in the chain to hook the snubber up?

Click to expand...

I use 3 strand, I think nylon. A regular stainless steel chain hook to connect it to the chain.

HenryD said:

Conrad - I was just looking at the AnchorLift roller for our Rocna anchor.

Click to expand...

We have been very happy with ours; our Rocna 33 (73#) fits snugly and self launches perfectly.

Our local yard fabricated the support which was required due to the need to extend the rollers far enough away from the windlass to accommodate the anchor.