40' fishing boat found

I don't know if any of you seen this but this sure does not look good.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/27/n...-but-captain-remains-missing.html?src=mv&_r=0

Stay safe while cruising.

Cheers

H. Foster

“'We saw that the boat wasn’t riding right in the water,” he said, adding that he did not see anyone on it. “It was settling.” Mr. Bradshaw kept an eye on the boat as he fished nearby ...'"



So this guy sees a boat nearby that is "settling' into the water and doesn't "look right' yet he simply continues fishing and watches to see what happens until he sees it sink ... what a seaman.



I am not quite sure what to say about that.

RickB said:

“'We saw that the boat wasn’t riding right in the water,” he said, adding that he did not see anyone on it. “It was settling.” Mr. Bradshaw kept an eye on the boat as he fished nearby ...'"



So this guy sees a boat nearby that is "settling' into the water and doesn't "look right' yet he simply continues fishing and watches to see what happens until he sees it sink ... what a seaman.



I am not quite sure what to say about that.

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I agree with you Rick. Wow that really tells you that some fools really do not have a glue. I could not just sit back and watch something like that happen. Wow that really mind blowing to me!

Cheers

Happy cruising.

H. Foster

I believe he may also be legally at fault for not rendering assistance.


Quote: Life as a mariner involves obligations that are unlike almost any other occupation - most notably is the obligation to render assistance at sea. While other hazardous occupations, such as logging, mining, and trucking often include circumstances where a worker comes cross another party in need of assistance, none of these occupations include a "good Samaritan" legal obligation to render assistance. In most cases, a person reacts to save another person as result of compassion or instinct, or both. While mariners will have the same compassion and instinct as other professionals, mariners have a legislated obligation to render assistance.

Obligations possibly differ between professional mariners and ordinary people operating a boat.

markpierce said:

Obligations possibly differ between professional mariners and ordinary people operating a boat.

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Mark, I honestly don't know but assume I am the "master" of my ship. Perhaps this excludes pleasure vessels?

"... the master of a ship at sea which is in a position to be able to provide assistance....."

dimer2 said:

I believe he may also be legally at fault for not rendering assistance.


Quote: Life as a mariner involves obligations that are unlike almost any other occupation - most notably is the obligation to render assistance at sea. While other hazardous occupations, such as logging, mining, and trucking often include circumstances where a worker comes cross another party in need of assistance, none of these occupations include a "good Samaritan" legal obligation to render assistance. In most cases, a person reacts to save another person as result of compassion or instinct, or both. While mariners will have the same compassion and instinct as other professionals, mariners have a legislated obligation to render assistance.

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nah no one was onboard and no danger was presented by the vessel.

The article did say he went over after it sank and looked for any survivors.

Yeah, but possible personal liability would not factor in my decision. A sinking vessel would pique my concern and attention and warrant close-up observation and assistance. Doubt I'd board a sinking vessel, however.

dimer2 said:

I believe he may also be legally at fault for not rendering assistance.


Quote: Life as a mariner involves obligations that are unlike almost any other occupation - most notably is the obligation to render assistance at sea. While other hazardous occupations, such as logging, mining, and trucking often include circumstances where a worker comes cross another party in need of assistance, none of these occupations include a "good Samaritan" legal obligation to render assistance. In most cases, a person reacts to save another person as result of compassion or instinct, or both. While mariners will have the same compassion and instinct as other professionals, mariners have a legislated obligation to render assistance.

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The only assistance required to be rendered is the prevention of loss of life...in other words
Stand by and pick up survivors....anything else is really salvage assistance and not necessarily compelled.

In January 2003, halfway between San Diego and the Hawaiian Islands, the cruise ship Statendam we were on picked up the crew (in the rubber dinghy) who abandoned their sailboat. The sailboat was left to drift. We went 600 miles out of our way to do the deed in response to their call.

I had two experiences on consecutive weekends that had me thinking about what obligations we have to fellow boaters.

Two weeks ago we were returning from a weekend stay in Oro Bay on Anderson Island in Soutern Puget Sound. No wind, so we were under power going 6+ knots against a 3 knot current. We heard a PAN-PAN call from the CG About a sailboat adrift between Pt. Defiance and Salmon Beach. We were well South of the Narrows Bridge at the time and that location was North of the bridge. I made note but didn't think much about it as we were miles away and there was a lot of Sunday Boat traffic going North.
I kept hearing the CG give the PAN-PAN however and a couple hours later as I started to approach that area I got out the binoculars and started looking. Eventually, I spotted a very sad sailboat that was drifting in the middle of the Narrows and went over to render assistance. The guy on board was an idiot, the boat a wreck, and if no one had given him aid he stood a good chance of ending up getting bashed to pieces on the Narrows Bridge. I gave him a tow, and let the CG know the situation. My point to the story, is that this guy watched at least 30-40 boats, most of them large cruisers, go by him without rendering any assistance. He actually spoke to a few of them in passing and they gave him a variety of excuses as to why they couldn't render assistance, including having kids on board that had to get home to be fed. One of them must have at least called it into the CG.

My wife and I were appalled that no one rendered assistance.

Last weekend my 81 year old mother and I were heading South towards Harstene Island when we heard a PAN-PAN regarding a report of a 40 ft power boat on fire. Again, were were making our slow way that direction and finally spotted the boat. At least this time there were a couple 16 foot fishing boats who had come over to investigate. None of them had a VHF radio however and the CG was in the dark. I and another sailboat went over and were able to relay information to the CG and the CG Helo that eventually responded and stayed on station until a fire boat and a Vessel assist showed up. Fortunately, the elderly couple had been able to extinguish the fire by that time and refused our offers of assistance or fire extinguishers. What troubled me was that with all the boat traffic, it took a couple of slow sailboats to actually use a radio to assist. Maybe I am just an old fart, but I always monitor 16 and I was under the impression that others did as well. Am I wrong?

dhays raises a worrying issue and deserves credit for offering assistance. I don`t know the area but here, 2Nm+ offshore you must carry a VHF. 30-40 boats passing with no offer of assistance seems just wrong. I monitor 16, on dual watch if necessary.
In enclosed waters we`ve stood by young kids in capsized sailing dinghies pending the Club rescue boat arriving.
In the Sydney-Hobart bluewater yacht race, and no doubt others, competitors get full credit for time spent assisting another competitor in trouble.The was once a great dispute over a boat not rendering assistance, it was decided the boat, itself in trouble, could not have done so without great risk to itself. Even so, it gives an illustration of what might be expected in terms of assistance.
I do not think powerboaters are inherently less responsible than sailboaters, it comes down to the individual involved.

IDK, maybe it's me, but some of these stories are pathetic!


Maybe it was the way I was raised or my career choices, but it's unfathomable to me that one human being will not at least attempt to assist another in a time of distress. And in the marine community even more so!


I understand not wanting to put children at risk, but at least standby to assist in whatever capacity you can without placing them in danger. And yes stupid! I don't care what the CG/State Regs say regarding size vs. equipment requirements, IMO if you're on a boat in more than waste deep water and less than walking distance from the shoreline, you ought to have a radio and monitor the frequencies!


I also understand people being afraid of the litigious society we live in, but I truly believe that there should be a basic human instinct in all of us to help if we can.


Personally, whether it's the middle of the ocean or on dry land, I'm not going to stand by and watch while someone get's hurt or dies! Never have and never will!


And while I won't place my 9 year old granddaughter or another child at risk, we'll still do something.


If it's just me or myself and some able bodied friends, it's game on. We're getting involved. If you want to sue me, go for it.


OD

Well said, OD!


Too often people use the "Liability" issue as an excuse to put their head in the sand and ignore those in need of assistance.

BruceK said:

I do not think powerboaters are inherently less responsible than sailboaters, it comes down to the individual involved.

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i didn't mean to imply that powerboaters were less responsible.

Puget Sound is all inland protected water. Maybe this gives folks a false sense of security so they don't monitor 16?

I too had an experience similar [but different] to dhays. In April this year I was anchored off the west side of Fraser Island when (at around 630-7pm) a red flare was spotted about 2-3nm from our position. It only burned briefly (10 secs or so) so whilst our curiosity was piqued, we waited and I went in and turned the VHF onto ch16 which was silent. We then saw another flare ignite and once again last for about 10seconds only. We then hailed all ships on VHF 16 to try to get confirmation of the flare(s). No response - at all. At this stage we were hesitating because of the short-lived duration of the flares. 'Was it just someone stuffing around?' - we were wondering. We hailed again on 16 and still no response. At this stage I was a bit perturbed by the lack of radio responses. Then the third flare went off and this one stayed lit.

At this point we all went to 'stations' and got strait underway towards the boat (we had noted it's position that afternoon). We tried hailing the 'boat displaying red flares' on 16, 67 and the local repeater channels - no response. We then went back to 16 and hailed 'all ships' to notify - well... someone - that we were moving to assist. By this stage at night, all the local [volunteer] rescue organisations in the area were closed so we tried hailing VTS Gladstone - once again on 16, 67 then all the repeaters. Nothing. [I must point out that at this stage we were 99% sure our radio was fine as we'd been conversing with VMR throughout the day with no problems - on the 12mth old ICOM VHF - as it turns out our radio was operating correctly as we spoke again on all channels the next day].

We got NO response AT ALL - from ANYONE. Long story short - we towed the stricken vessel (dead motor - anchored far enough away from shore that it was very lumpy - new-to-them boat - first trip, one crew member violently seasick and the skipper admitted 'it got to the stage I was getting panicky'). To be honest, they weren't in any particular peril - apart from their inexperience. Their radio wasn;t working, and they couldnt; get phone coverage. We towed them in close to the island where it was millpond calm - made sure they were anchored up and ok - enough water etc etc and said we'd move a mile away and we'd keep an eye on them throughout the night and check in the morning.

All throughout - I was astounded we were the only vessel that not only went to assist- but no-one else even bothered turning on or responding to radio after THREE red flares went off. There were about 8-10 boats within 1-3 miles from us. No way we were the only ones that saw the flares. Needless to say - it has shaken my longstanding belief that fellow boaters give a crap about 'the other guy' - at least when they're on the water.

Like it or not, a 40' boat is not a "ship." I'd venture to guess that guy, like most who own a boat, doesn't have a 6 pack, much less an unlimited license with STCW and all those bells and whistles. Salvaging a boat could make you some money, but you're not required to do so. Just like the USCG isn't required to respond unless someone is in danger. A drifting boat doesn't mean someone is in trouble. Watching the drifitng boat and checking for survivors will be more than enough action in the eyes of the law.

SaltyDawg86 said:

A drifting boat doesn't mean someone is in trouble. Watching the drifitng boat and checking for survivors will be more than enough action in the eyes of the law.

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Legally maybe but there is more to life than law.

In the case under discussion, the witness admitted he believed the boat was in trouble ... "We saw that the boat wasn’t riding right in the water,” he said, adding that he did not see anyone on it. “It was settling.”

He didn't say (and couldn't know) that no one was onboard, he said he didn't see anyone ... big difference. After it sank he went over to see if there was anyone in the water. That means he was at least bright enough to make the connection that the boat might at one time have carried someone, even if he didn't see them when there was still enough time to maybe save a life or at least help with what he admitted recognizing as a problem.

If worried about being sued for assisting...just carry a few "Open Salvage Agreements" aboard and strike out the compensation area and add all you wish is not to be sued.

It won't keep you from being sued , like real salvage companies often are, but it might help, especially being a good Samaritan and not a pro.

We also know how the news reports. That may be a small sample of what he actually said. As a professional mariner, I would have gone to the boat and at minimum would have hailed for him. Depending on how bad the boat was listing, the condition it was is and the amount of freeboard, I may have not gone on to see if anyone was on there. But not everyone is that way. There's too many lawsuit happ people out there that want to screw the good guy.
Hopefully the story ends with "The capt got drunk, didn't tie his boat off well enough, causing it to go adrift and he was found passed out in his car."

Most people would be surprised at how many "suspicious" events like this occur.


Hard to tell from the news report.....but in 70 feet of water....some anwers might be available after a couple dives are made.

What gets me is this, the Capt. Seen the vessel was not riding right and settling in the water. From what I have read thus far and seen, the Capt. Never tried to contact the 40’ fishing vessel to seen anything was wrong.


The Capt. Of the 40’ fishing vessel may have been unconscious below beck we simply do not know. I feel the Capt. should have tried to contact the vessel or at least contact the USCG about the vessel, not simply just watch it! These two actions would not have endangered his vessel or his crew or made him liable for anything.


Now I do not want to be too hard on the Capt. He may have tried to contact that 40’ vessel, again we do not know, but he sure as heck did not say that in his statement to the press.


I am with O.D. I could not sit by without doing something if someone may be in trouble and I am sure many of us here on T.F. feel the same way.


Happy and safe cruising.
H. Foster

Too many unknowns....

Wasn't the bystander the Capt of a party fishing boat?

To be fair...if the other boat was only "suspicious" for a vertical short time...this guy might have had his hands full and made a mental note...and by the time he looked again..it was going dow.

News reports are terribly misleading sometimes.....too many unknowns for me to even speculate beyond this.

Another thin report....

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-Anderson-Captain-Coast-Guards-322948221.html

Based on the 2 reports...sounds like the timeline was very short.

psneeld said:

Too many unknowns....

Wasn't the bystander the Capt of a party fishing boat?

To be fair...if the other boat was only "suspicious" for a vertical short time...this guy might have had his hands full and made a mental note...and by the time he looked again..it was going dow.

News reports are terribly misleading sometimes.....too many unknowns for me to even speculate beyond this.

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I agree with the unknowns and I believe so on the party fishing boat. However, how long does it take to key a mic? The key word is "suspicious" and in the words of the Capt. himself, the vessel was not riding right and settling.

So I take it from that statement he understood something was wrong with the vessel and well as his statement of "He had never seen a boat go down so fast" that he was able to tell when a vessel is taking on water.

I also agree the press will mess things up, but thus far they all have said about the same thing.

Happy cruising to you.

H. Foster

hfoster said:

I agree with the unknowns and I believe so on the party fishing boat. However, how long does it take to key a mic? The key word is "suspicious" and in the words of the Capt. himself, the vessel was not riding right and settling.

So I take it from that statement he understood something was wrong with the vessel and well as his statement of "He had never seen a boat go down so fast" that he was able to tell when a vessel is taking on water.

I also agree the press will mess things up, but thus far they all have said about the same thing.

Happy cruising to you.

H. Foster

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Not sure how many vessels you have seen sink in front of you...but I would say I have about a dozen now in open water..and probably another 25 or so while tied up.

If a party boat captain is out of the wheelhouse and helping or chatting up pax at the stern...glancing up and seeing something off doesn't require a mad dash to the wheelhouse to make a call. I wouldn't depending on just what I saw either....it isn't so cut and dry as many might think.

The 2 boys fishing reported it happened very fast.

Again..you can think you might have done something different...and wanted to...but reality is most hesitate till the are sure...and in this case..a few seconds might have been as long as you had.

Second guess all you want...but that is all it is without more info.

not good :-(
(body found)


Divers Find Body in Sunken Fishing Trawler: NJ State Police | NBC New York

psneeld said:

Not sure how many vessels you have seen sink in front of you...but I would say I have about a dozen now in open water..and probably another 25 or so while tied up.

If a party boat captain is out of the wheelhouse and helping or chatting up pax at the stern...glancing up and seeing something off doesn't require a mad dash to the wheelhouse to make a call. I wouldn't depending on just what I saw either....it isn't so cut and dry as many might think.

The 2 boys fishing reported it happened very fast.

Again..you can think you might have done something different...and wanted to...but reality is most hesitate till the are sure...and in this case..a few seconds might have been as long as you had.

Second guess all you want...but that is all it is without more info.

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To answer your question, I have seen a number of vessels go down, and in fact I was on one that went down when we were hit but another vessel. I also know when a vessel was riding low in the water when there was no reason for it to be. As I did say, there are unknowns but I can only go by what the Capt. himself said. he was keeping an eye on it.

Sure many things could have been happing that the Capt. had to do and as I said, I do not want to be to hard on the Capt. but I cannot help but wonder why some one would not simply try and call the vessel? It only takes a few moments.

I do not want you to take me wrong here Psneeld. I am not trying to place blame on the Capt. nor and I saying he is at fault. I am just saying it never hurts to take a closer look at things when they do not look right. That is just the way I was taught.

I have enjoyed our chat. It's great to get different view point other than your own.

Cheers and happy cruising to you.

H. Foster.

psneeld said:

If worried about being sued for assisting...just carry a few "Open Salvage Agreements" aboard and strike out the compensation area and add all you wish is not to be sued.

It won't keep you from being sued , like real salvage companies often are, but it might help, especially being a good Samaritan and not a pro.

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I'm not talking about assistance towing or anything other than driving over to the boat that has obvious problems and asking if there is anything you can do to help ... even just making a radio call in case the boat had lost electrical power or something.

The witness didn't say he saw the boat sink while he was motoring toward it, he said he kept on fishing and was surprised at how fast it sank.

The issue is someone sat and watched a boat with obvious difficulties until it sank before even asking if help was required. There is no liability in asking if everything is under control or if they would like you to help.

Off Duty said:

not good :-(
(body found)


Divers Find Body in Sunken Fishing Trawler: NJ State Police | NBC New York

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Thanks O.D.

I guess that clears up one thing (If I read the story right) The body was found in the wreckage! Well that would mean he was onboard! Damn. I feel sorry for the fella's family. My thought go out to them.

Thanks again O.D.

Happy cruising to you and yours my friend.

Cheers

H. Foster

Without an actual timeline...it's hart to tell what coulda, woulda, should have been done.

Sure the checklist of things to do is great...but if number one is notice sinking boat, two is start assistance checklist but the boat sinks between number one and number two....kinda hard to fault anyone..especially when a second set of eyewitnesses saw it and proclaimed there was nothing they could do.

Hey...I hate the "suit crazed" world and still offer tows with my big old tubby trawler... I think assistance towing is stupid...but with the vast majority of boaters unable to tie a bowline...it probably is a good idea and saves fingers, eyes, lots of damage and maybe lives to boot from chuckleheads towing chuckleheads.

Just after being head of a safety organization that was responsible for conducting investigations..,and seeing all the jumped to conclusions and the pressure to get reports out...whether accurate or not...my tendency is to sit back and wait and see what the evidence shows...not news reports.

Yes Rick and everyone else, taking a moment to check things out should have risen to the top of that captain's priority list....I just wish I knew how much time he had to make that call.