Living on a 44ft Motor Yacht too much?

CPseudonym said:

That's alright George, I'm sure a lot has changed. We allow women to vote now too.

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Whaaat?!?! boy that place sure has turned into a PC pinko granola crunching hell hole. Here in North Carolina they want less people voting, saves all that time and manpower doing ballot counts on their fingers.

There are some great on the water schools put on by Sea Sense and chapman's here on the east coast. I think Southwest Florida Yachts does trawler classes as well. When Ann and a friend took a Sea Sense class, it was on a 46 Grand Banks classic. You want to find a good teacher that has a curriculum and process; not all "captains" are very good teachers. At least a refresher on your boat with a really good captain, who can also go over all the systems and unique features of your boat is a great idea. When I got my Hatteras a good guy from the boat yard/ marina it was in at the time, who lived on a similar sized Chris Craft and who had worked on my boat as a tech for many years
spent a few afternoons with me and it was invaluable. An afternoon on the water with the PO right before we took off for the south was also fantastic. I had a fair amount of experience with boats like Grand Banks 49's, but the Hatt was a new kind of beast.

Hawgwash said:

If your pulpit overhangs the walkway, your slip could be too short. It will most likely hang too far into the fairway if stern in and in either case, someone will hit it one day.
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Actually not as much. Often boats that actually have plenty of remaining space in the slip still pull the boat too far forward causing the pulpit to overhang the walkway.

Now pulpits protruding into the fairway is another problem. When finger piers are short, then there really isn't anything determining when the slip ends and the fairway starts. There are pulpits occasionally hit.

In your area the piers do provide some protection from boats in the fairway. I was use to that on the lake. The marinas I grew up around on a lake have far more in common with those on the west coast than they do with those around here.

caltexflanc said:

Nope, this is me, next to a puny little Fleming 55:

Here's a view from the bow of my boat in Morehead City after all my sporty neighbors got back in from a tournament. And no they don't leave the power cords in the water all the time; washing the boat comes first.

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George, MCYB 1975 before the floating docks. This is shot from up on the office. I am in the black T shirt and yellow cap behind my boat. This was during the Big Rock Tournament.

If someone wants to learn seamanship and boat handling skills in a vacation environment send a pm to Arctictraveler at this forum. He holds class in Alaska aboard his DeFever 49 RPH

I am amazed that backing is so challenging to so many. Take your twin engine boat out in open water put it in reverse and using shifters and even rudders learn to drive it around. There isn't much you cant do backwards with twins

bayview said:

There isn't much you cant do backwards with twins

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Very true. We put our boat bow-in in our slip because we wanted a slip oriented so the prevaiing wind would blow us off the finger, we wanted a starboard tie because that's where the main cabin door is, and we want to have our aft deck and aft cabin toward the bay where the view is and the breeze comes from.

But more often than not when we have to maneuver down a tight fairway between boats or we're in some other close-quarters situation we'll back in rather than go bow in. That way we can steer the back end exactly where we want it to go and the boat aligns with that, rather than going forward and swinging the stern out to one side or the other to make a directional adjustment. In essence, backing allows us to maneuver through tight spaces without touching anything much more accurately than going forward.

Wind can mess this up, of course, but in no or light wind conditions, we'll generally take reverse over forward for tight maneuvering.

bayview said:

I am amazed that backing is so challenging to so many. Take your twin engine boat out in open water put it in reverse and using shifters and even rudders learn to drive it around. There isn't much you cant do backwards with twins

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The issue here is visibility on the subject boat and others like it. Handling wise I think in many ways, for me at least, backing down a flat transom boat with twins is easier than going bow in. Not sure why, might just be me. If I had a boat that for whatever reason was going aft-in a lot, I'd look into getting one of those cool "Palm Beach" helms the big sporties have so you can face backwards and control the boat precisely.

Now pulpits protruding into the fairway is another problem. When finger piers are short, then there really isn't anything determining when the slip ends and the fairway starts

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Everywhere I can recall uses the outermost pilings (used for the bow lines when backing in) as the boundary beyond which the pulpit should not protrude.

Marin said:

Hawgwash-- If you eliminate the slash mark in the lead quote code the quoted section will appear properly in a box. Slash marks denote a closing code. Just a suggestion...

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Thank you.
Wondered why the difference from when I used boxes before.
Now I know.

caltexflanc said:

Everywhere I can recall uses the outermost pilings (used for the bow lines when backing in) as the boundary beyond which the pulpit should not protrude.

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That's not the case in any of the marinas I'm referring to in Fort Lauderdale. Many of the boats are beyond that without even considering pulpits. That's the way the slips are rented. in many cases no pilings beyond the finger piers. Now, I know the criteria you mention was true in other places. I just pulled up 6 Fort Lauderdale marinas and all were that way.

Almost none of the marinas I have frequented (over 100 in the last few years) prohibit vessels from sticking past the outer pilings...it is a shame as it may prevent a lot of damage from inexperienced skippers.

That's up to the marina, but technically that's the size of the slip. And I have seen plenty that do enforce it as we shopped for slips, either transient or season. Keys to Maine.

No pilings beyond a short finger pier? Where? I'm curious. I just did a satellite scan, Aventura to Lighthouse Point, same as I did when I ate crow on the California thing. Either the finger is virtually full length or there are pilings out there beyond it. Haven't found one to the contrary yet. My memory can be bad, but it's not that bad.

psneeld said:

Almost none of the marinas I have frequented (over 100 in the last few years) prohibit vessels from sticking past the outer pilings...it is a shame as it may prevent a lot of damage from inexperienced skippers.

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Fact is they encourage it. The charge by the greater of maximum overall length or slip length. So, if they have a 50' boat in a 45' slip, that's adding directly to the profit line. They do have maximums they'll allow in each slip so generally don't go too far, but I've seen some talk them into much more. You have a 40' unused slip and someone wants to put a 60' boat there, some can't find it in themselves to turn that down.

Frankly, I'm happy, the way things are crowded that I very seldom use a slip at a normal marina. As transient it's generally side tie dock or T or something other than the normal slips. Now some marinas do put transients into slips of boats out cruising.

Here is a marina nearby with longer finger piers but no outer pilings. Many of the boats stick out past the ends of the finger piers which make it a PIA for me to tow a boat into a slip there.

It is Stone Harbor Marina in Stone Harbor, NJ.

The rule in our harbor is that a boat cannot extend out into the fairway beyond the end of the boat's sllp's finger. The port does not get super anal about this as there are boats around with dinghies that might go a foot or two past the end and the port doesn't seem to mind.

Hulls or pulpits or bowsprits are not supposed to extend over the main dock, either. Again, the port is somewhat tolerant of this as long as the overhang is not extreme or poses any sort of hazard. They have security who walk the docks periodically during the day and night so anything obvious would be quickly noticed and dealt with.

From what I see in the other harbors I've been in up here these rules seem pretty universal in this area.

The differences in east coast and PNW docking/slip practices seem quite different and it would be interesting to know how they both got started the way they did. The east coast has a much longer history of shipping/boating/fishing than the west coast so I imagine that practices in that region that are the norm today had a logical start in the past even if they seem odd to boaters in other regions today.

I suppose some of it might have had to do with the differences in tidal ranges although I assume in New England the tidal ranges are starting to get pretty significant. I know by the time one gets up into the Canadian Maritimes they are very significant.

Hampton Public Piers has about the weirdest way to tie a boat of any marina I have been in.

And here

cool beans said:

I'm jealous of those of you with full length docks! At my marina, we have an 8 foot "pinky" pier, every other slip. I think I would rather be bow in, if nothing else so I can fish off the back deck Kind tuff hoisting yourself over the bow railing getting on and off. . .

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9229616,-76.1866204,36m/data=!3m1!1e3

For those of you suggesting lessons, can that be done before I buy a boat or do I wait till I get whatever and then chance it?

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Yeah those docks kind of suck but Norfolk is a cool place, lots to do. Gateway to the Chesapeake Bay.

This isn't even the worst in Dania.

One feature of stern in berthing is co-operation between boat owners. People go to your slip as you approach to take a line, help manhandle the boat, help tie up, etc, of course we adjust everything ourselves after. (In my case they may first fender their boats and send wives and children off the pier). The favor gets returned of course, and as long as you don`t suffer "performance anxiety"(appearing in appellate courts before a trio of playful Judges cures that) the process works well.
I find reverse parking harder than bow in, there is less control, these days I face aft and stand beside the gear levers to work them. You do need a reasonable amount of "wriggle room", which is a reason we changed marinas after we got moved to a slip with 3" between boats. First time arriving at the current marina it was just us 2,we managed fine.Departing is usually easy, we have had people offer to assist, it will be a tough day we accept. Solo reverse berthing could be challenging.
Our side finger extends about 75% of our 36ft boat, and we have side gates to the walkaround decks and no transom gate. I`m ok with it.

cool beans said:

For those of you suggesting lessons, can that be done before I buy a boat or do I wait till I get whatever and then chance it?

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Certainly can be done and in fact I would recommend you do s if you're really serious about buying. Sign up for Power Squadron or similar courses and look into taking some lessons on a similar boat to what you are thinking of.

Going that route will better help you with your search and especially sea trials. Watch out though, lessons might even convince you to go a different direction.

After you buy a boat you can always do some specific lessons on it, if desired.

Have we gone too far off course for you here?

Our old boat seen in this picture protruding quite a bit.(White Sportfish) Never was a problem.

N4712 said:

Our old boat seen in this picture protruding quite a bit.(White Sportfish) Never was a problem.
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Last time we were by your marina, it was far worse. There was a boat just inside the wall on the right but the biggest one was about 4 slips inside on the left. I suspect it was transient. It was bigger than anything in your photo. Weren't there also boats side tied in the very back at one time too?

The thing is that they make it all work. Everyone is use to it and just knows how to avoid problems. I've seen boats against the back wall in your neighbor marina that required other boats to be moved to get out.

Marinas are not the only packed places. Look at some of the canals, especially the ones on both sides of Isle of Venice.

BandB said:

Last time we were by your marina, it was far worse. There was a boat just inside the wall on the right but the biggest one was about 4 slips inside on the left. I suspect it was transient. It was bigger than anything in your photo. Weren't there also boats side tied in the very back at one time too?



The thing is that they make it all work. Everyone is use to it and just knows how to avoid problems. I've seen boats against the back wall in your neighbor marina that required other boats to be moved to get out.



Marinas are not the only packed places. Look at some of the canals, especially the ones on both sides of Isle of Venice.

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Yes there were sea rays on either wall in the entrance, now just one on the left. The one on the right was abandoned at Harbor town by an old marina maintenance guy that hauled arse. There's now a big ocean yacht up on the left inside that sticks out about the same as our Hatteras did. Maybe more, but not by much. Yes we just had a 70ft transient Hatteras MY that docked on the back wall on the right and the left side of the back wall has a Bertram that has been at the marina for a pretty good while.

Packed? How about Playboy and adjacent yards during busy season. They pack them in and tent them up!

Interesting the variety of marina configurations and habits. We have a "10% rule" at our marina, we can extend past the end of the slip finger no more than 10% of the boat's length.

In west FL short piers on one side only are common but almost always have poles far from the short pier end. The poles are used for bow lines and are a great assist in docking. Just get a stern cheek against a pole and you have it made.

Our marina is typical of this area, all powerboats (in our case), about 200 slips, TWO boats bow-to, all the rest stern-to. Most of the fingers are too short to be able to get off unless stern-to, although there are some full-length fingers on the outer dock where the Fleming fleet lives. Even there, all but those two boats are docked stern-to.


Many of the local mixed-use (power and sail) marinas seem to have about 50% of their sailboats docked bow-to; folks willing to climb over their lifelines...


-Chris