Living on a 44ft Motor Yacht too much?

I think this thread has mostly been focusing about the wrong thing, and that's the boater's ability to get the thing to a dock or into a slip single handed, or sightlines from the helm and so forth.

That's part of the story, sure. But I think the far more important thing to be considering with regards to single handing a boat is what's that boat going to be like on the day the wind's blowing the wrong way at 15 or 20 knots? Or the current is trying to carry the boat in exactly the wrong direction? Or, as often happens in our waters, both of those?

I've seen-- and probably most people on this forum have, too-- people in dinghies having a terrible time at a dock because of wind or current or both. I've been on hand when friends with a 26' Tollycraft needed three people on the boat and one on the dock to get the thing into a slip with no panic, confusion or damage.

This had zip to do with the boaters' abilities; everyone on that Tollycraft was an experienced driver of that boat. It had to do with the nasty wind they were having to deal with.

We tend to think about maneuvering or docking a boat under ideal conditions-- no wind, no current, no rain, nice sunny day. Maybe that's the norm where one boats. If it is, a person could probably single hand the Nimitz.

I could single hand our 30,000 pound, 36' cabin cruiser easily on a sales-brochure day. But I will never single hand this boat (except in an emergency) because I have long since learned what this boat can turn into when the wind and currects kick up around here. There have been times when it's come close to being too much for my wife and I to handle.

So far in 17 years we've only been defeated once and that was in our own slip when it was so windy I came in with more speed and my wife was unable to get our permanent spring on the midships cleat because the boat moved past the length of the line too soon. The line fell into the water, we were seconds from being blown onto our neighbor so I backed out fast and we went to an empty slip on another dock where the wind would blow us onto the finger, not off of it. Told the port where we were and why, they said fine, and we came back the following weekend and moved the boat back across.

So if one is contemplating buying a boat they can single hand, don't envision youself doing this on the ideal dead calm day. Envision doing it on a 15 knot, wrong-direction wind day.

People, including me, don't think 15 knots is a lot of wind. It's not when you're out on the water driving around in it. It can seem a hurricane when you're trying to get into a tight slip or space on a dock and you find youself having to manhandle the boat.

Unless, of course one is going to be boating single-handed on a lake and only on days when there is not even a puff of a breeze. Then the size of the boat becones almost irrelevent other than its inertia.

One of the first things I'd do is move that extra set of shifters to the back of the aft deck.
Should be fairly easy since they're on the roof now. On the aft deck, you now have ready direct access to the side decks and visibility to both through the doors, and direct view of the swim platform. Would make backing that boat into a slip a virtual snap.

It's really not at all an issue of boat length, but one of the specific boat and the ability of the operator. Seeing that right now you don't go out with a S-SE breeze because you don't want to deal with returning, then your idea of getting some training is very good. Find someone who makes it look easy and hope they can show you. The person training us made it very easy but then put us through lot's of practice. You don't need a dock to practice the maneuvers and get use to how your boat can be maneuvered in the wind.

Our goal in docking is that no one needs to do anything beyond just step out with the line or hand it to someone. Someone mentioned using muscles and we do all we can to avoid that including trying again. Plus you can't muscle a boat the size you're talking about and it's dangerous to try.

Personally, I find weight to be of great benefit in docking. As boats get larger they just hold the position you're putting them in better. With a 10' RIB if you don't tie up quickly it can be blown away easily.

I'd check the aft control out carefully, looking the model of it up on line. With a less than idea view from the lower helm, they can be of tremendous benefit when short handed. Now, they like the rest take some practice. Much of it is learning to use all the new tools a boat has, whether thrusters or joysticks or twins vs. singles or remote helm controls. I've seen people who have owned a boat a long time but never "become as one with it." They just haven't practiced enough to grasp fully all they can do with the twins and the thruster or aren't comfortable using aft or side controls. A few who think they don't need this new fangled stuff. But I use everything a boat has with no apologies.

It reminds me a bit of discussions about jet boats and ribs. Many people say you can't handle them. We played around a lot, just figuring out all we could do when we got them. There are things that are more difficult, but there are things one can do easier with a jet than a prop drive.

I know we've looked silly to many practicing docking and handling maneuvers miles from any dock, but it's a great way to make mistakes with no damage done. For instance one of your challenges is backing it to the dock, which is basically backing a straight line. We did that over and over from all helm stations and we've repeated on any new boat. Plus you can just turn and practice with the wind from all different directions. You can learn in a shorter time what some do in years so that with any thing the boat does at the dock, you know what to do to correct without thinking, just automatically.

caltexflanc said:

One of the first things I'd do is move that extra set of shifters to the back of the aft deck.
Should be fairly easy since they're on the roof now. On the aft deck, you now have ready direct access to the side decks and visibility to both through the doors, and direct view of the swim platform. Would make backing that boat into a slip a virtual snap.

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Agree and often thought I wish I had a set back there

Two things that every boat handler needs to empty themselves of to successfully dock a boat, hubris and a schedule. When you have done that and find yourself in an unfavorable docking scenario you'll notice that anchor on your bow, find a place to set that and relax a bit and think about your troubles.

I always try to think about my escape options prior to final approach. Because when I do manage to cock it up royally I've no desire nor the experience level to just wing it. My take, if it's going to take 4 experienced boaters and a dock attendant to dock a 26' Anything Craft you'll do less damage anchoring in the fairway.

CPseudonym said:

Two things that every boat handler needs to empty themselves of to successfully dock a boat, hubris and a schedule. .

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If you eliminate schedule from the mix you will knock 90 percent of the boaters off the water (which would be a good thing, I admit). Because most boaters work and when Monday rolls around they have to be back at it.

It's easy to eliminate schedules if one is retired or perhaps self-employed. But for most boaters, even the really rich ones, schedules rule the day. Kenmore Air gets a lot of business from wealthy yachters who are up in Desolation Sound or wherever and have to be back at work on Monday but the weather's mucked things up for them. So they call Kenmore to come get them and fly them back to Seattle.

So schedule cannot be ignored by many if not most boaters. I suppose one could look at the weather and if there was even a chance of adverse wind on their return day simply not go out at all. But most of the boaters I know don't do that (unless it's going to be REALLY bad), but instead go out and deal with the docking the best they can when they get back. So you need a boat you can handle or a crew that can help you handle the boat.

If you know how to push and turn a shopping cart, you know how the shifters work a twin engine boat.

A friend, been around and on other people`s boats for years, good crew, recently hired a narrow boat in the UK for 5 days during a vacation, made a point of telling me narrow boats pivot around half way along their length. He just hadn`t done any close quarters driving before.
Reversing a boat into a slip can be practised using a mooring buoy as target, avoiding those with an attached line in the water. Approach it from different angles to experience wind from a range of directions.

Bruce, first order of business is to be able to see the buoy.

caltexflanc said:

Bruce, first order of business is to be able to see the buoy.

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True George, true. To improve slip vision I took the dinghy off the swimstep after a first reverse park debacle(we just moved from swing mooring to marina), and used mooring buoy practice to improve handling. I get the vision issue with sundeck boats, with your experience you`d be fine, for others maybe a car type reversing camera would help.

Don't know what the norm is in Sydney but in our near-2,000 boat marina probably 90 percent of the boats, power and sail, go bow first into their slips. Among the several advantages to this is there are no visibility issues to deal with when entering the slip.

Marin said:

Don't know what the norm is in Sydney but in our near-2,000 boat marina probably 90 percent of the boats, power and sail, go bow first into their slips. Among the several advantages to this is there are no visibility issues to deal with when entering the slip.

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In Sydney, our norm is the reverse of yours, maybe less so with sailboats(on which we diverge and call yachts); in Queensland state there is more "bow in". We have a side finger but not all slips do, that could be a reason.

So many boats are backed up between boats on either side of them to a dock, what some people call Mediterranean style?

Here in virtually every harbor I've been in boats are either in slips, usually two boats to a slip with a finger on their port or starboard side, or they are side-tied to a linear dock. Some marinas have the boats in individual slips with a finger on each side of the boat. In our harbor the docks all have two-boat slips along their length with a long side-tie dock or finger if you like at the end which is referred to as an "end tie."

The boat in the photo is on the end-tie of our dock with the two-boat slips along both sides of the main dock leading up to it.

Our slips vary.(We call it berth or pen, while I`m at it, we call hauling out "slipping". Eg. of usage in a phone conversation:"We`re slipping the boat this weekend, got time to come help sand the hull and repaint the antifouling? Hello hello? seems the phone line dropped out..").
If it is essentially a stern tie to a long finger wharf, usually floating, there would be poles forward either side as well, these are usually found on older style marinas. Most slips are like ours, two boats, each has a finger one side, tie on the side and stern.

On the US east coast, and in California, 90% + of the boats are backed in; many are set up that way from the factory with shorepower and water and dock access from the cockpit. On the Hatteras, we were part of the 10%, not only was the boat set up for it, we liked the privacy and view to the fairway; waking hours mostly on the aft deck, and an aft MSR. The only time we backed in was rare places with no finger piers. I never did it single handed.

caltexflanc said:

in California, 90% + of the boats are backed in

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Really George, where?

Far more than 90% + pull in everywhere I have been in Northern and Southern California. The boats that back in stand out and are quite noticeable.

Yep, East coast 90% back in. It is probably due to most marinas having short finger piers.



Is that you, George?

CPseudonym said:

Really George, where?

Far more than 90% + pull in everywhere I have been in Northern and Southern California. The boats that back in stand out and are quite noticeable.

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Agreed - here in the SF Bay area, at least, I used to be the odd one out with my sailboat backed into its slip. With my Krogen I go in forwards because the view is better from the saloon that way round (I'm at the end of my marina and have no boats behind me).

Richard

In my west coast experience, it is much closer to 50-50, but I would say most boats go bow in. I believe powerboats back in more frequently than sailboats, especially sportfishers and other open-cockpit powerboats. But, where slips are narrower at the front, a powerboat cannot back in as far as it can head in. Where slips are expensive, and permissible overhang limited, powerboats are more inclined to back in. I usually go bow-in for this reason, but when the slip permits, I go stern in, especially if my transom will go beyond the dock, since it is easiest to board my boat from the transom.

CPseudonym said:

Really George, where?

Far more than 90% + pull in everywhere I have been in Northern and Southern California. The boats that back in stand out and are quite noticeable.

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Ok, I apologize; make that about 30% for power boats, just did a satellite scan of a few majors; been awhile I guess; too much time on the east coast ! Last place we used a lot out there, where we rented boats as part of a club, you had to back in, that probably colored my memory. Appears that different marinas are dominantly one or the other.

Moonstruck said:

Yep, East coast 90% back in. It is probably due to most marinas having short finger piers.

Is that you, George?

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Nope, this is me, next to a puny little Fleming 55:



Here's a view from the bow of my boat in Morehead City after all my sporty neighbors got back in from a tournament. And no they don't leave the power cords in the water all the time; washing the boat comes first.

I feel lucky and spoiled. All our slips have full length finger piers on both sides. I usually go bow in but will turn it around on occasion; I think this was a marina dock party.

Not saying it's representative or anything, but my observation is that the more social owners are stern first - it drives them nuts hanging out on their aft decks / cockpits when people are passing by on the docks.

I think much of it has evolved over time. On lakes it was all forward in as I grew up. However, the slips were angled from both sides in the front making them much smaller at the bow. It was impractical to back in. Also, they all had full length docks on both sides. I was amazed when traveling the west coast to notice places like Marina Del Ray even with the huge volume of boats and the shortage of space that way. In South Florida, a marina designer would look at that and quickly state how much money could be saved in construction and how many more boats slipped in if you just had finger piers and just had them on one side. Take it to the extreme in the med and have no piers.

Another couple of factors I think play a role. Bow in often obstructs your walkway, especially with larger and larger bow pulpits. Stern in, every boat is equal, there are no obstructions. Obviously if you don't have full length piers on the side, stern in becomes necessary for boarding, unboarding and provisioning.

One other point I've heard made. Think of the aft as the patio or yard, while the bow of the boat often has sleeping quarters or bedrooms. Well, while bow in provides more privacy when on the aft deck, it provides less when sleeping.

I personally hate all the east coast marinas with two boats to a slip. i feel like my privacy has been invaded. Even just a 3' or 4' dock between at least gives me some sense of separation. If I lived at a marina that would become very important in my selection. As a transient, I feel like one has it made. Side docking, generally very wide dock. Generally no other boat on either side, just in front of you and behind you and most of the time they're turned the same direction you are.

Many marinas in South Florida, there is no choice. All the Dania marinas are stern in only. You look at Harbour Towne and Port Royal and for all pratical purposes you've got med mooring. They don't have finger piers, more like fingerlings. The only exception is a few small sail boats bow in at the entrance to Port Royale.

Another huge difference in areas. In certain areas in the Delta and the PNW you see covered slips. Very very few covered in South Florida. On the lake I grew up on they were once mostly covered but the new haven't been. In fact now it's hard to get permits for covered slips.

Which brings us to the Chesapeake and another trend developing. I was talking to people in the Annapolis area. Very difficult for homeowners to get dock permits and they're very limited in the amount of water surface you can cover. This is to protect what is under.

Oh and for the record I hate Med Mooring. If given a choice, I'll always select a different marina. Only a couple of times have I had no choice.

This is a shot of our slip which is typical of almost all the harbors in this region. The individual fingers are 45' long. I took this the day we moved our boat back to the new dock which, along with the next dock out, replaced the old ones. We were the first boat onto the new docks, hence the empty look. Both docks are totally full now.

The prevailing wind blows us off the finger, hence our permanent spring line hung on the dock, a practice used by quite a few people in the harbor.

BandB said:

Bow in often obstructs your walkway, especially with larger and larger bow pulpits. Stern in, every boat is equal, there are no obstructions..

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If your pulpit overhangs the walkway, your slip could be too short. It will most likely hang too far into the fairway if stern in and in either case, someone will hit it one day.

[/QUOTE]Think of the aft as the patio or yard.[/QUOTE]

I do think that and I'd rather have my patio on the waterfront than the sidewalk.

[/QUOTE]Oh and for the record I hate Med Mooring.[/QUOTE]

I'm with you there.

Hawgwash-- If you eliminate the slash mark in the lead quote code the quoted section will appear properly in a box. Slash marks denote a closing code. Just a suggestion...

BandB said:

...
Another couple of factors I think play a role. Bow in often obstructs your walkway, especially with larger and larger bow pulpits.
...

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I don't have to worry about my bow pulpit overhanging the dock. Even an NBA player won't be able to bang their head. For the record I'm 6' tall.



Richard

caltexflanc said:

been awhile I guess; too much time on the east coast !

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That's alright George, I'm sure a lot has changed. We allow women to vote now too.

I'm jealous of those of you with full length docks! At my marina, we have an 8 foot "pinky" pier, every other slip. I think I would rather be bow in, if nothing else so I can fish off the back deck Kind tuff hoisting yourself over the bow railing getting on and off. . .

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9229616,-76.1866204,36m/data=!3m1!1e3

For those of you suggesting lessons, can that be done before I buy a boat or do I wait till I get whatever and then chance it?