Looked at some Trawlers yesterday. . .

Decided to check out another boat on my list and they had 3 others there I looked at as well! Probably the best 3.5 hrs spent so far Also, Bob the broker was probably the most helpful person I've yet to talk to as far as salesmen go. Very appreciative that he didn't hound me while I crawled all over these boats, and opened up several others for me. . .even knowing one wasn't in my budget (I was just curious what a trunk cabin trawler was like inside). He unlocked all of them, flipped on all the lights and started the AC's up. Very productive day

So, the boat I originally went to look at because it had promise. I liked the aft cockpit, open salon, center line bed and separate shower:

37' President Fly bridge Sedan

1987 President "37" Flybridge Sedan Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Lots of living space in the salon. Galley was kind of tight. No real storage space anywhere for clothes, towels, dishes, etc. Lots of cubby holes for maintenance parts. . .but I'm not rolling up work shirts and putting them in a bilge basket, lol. Separate shower stall is a lot tinier in person. I'd rather there been a combined unit with a curtain to close off the toilet and sink areas so I'd have elbow room. Fly bridge area was small. I'm also not sure I like not having a second station inside for at least docking alone. Anyways, boat scratched from list.

Second boat, figured "while I was there":

Bayliner 3888:

1989 Bayliner 3888 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

The Bayliner 38XX series are boats that have always turned up on my radar, but I was never sure if I could live with the salon seating. Fixed furniture bothers me in my sailboat, but I think I can live with it in the Bayliner. It's just that much more comfortable and roomier, and the table isn't fixed so I'm not bashing my knees getting in and out. The seating is like a plush sofa cushion. Galley is nice and roomy, forward state room has better storage than the 37 President. The "coffin" cabin is actually very roomy with a nice hanging closet. Fly bridge is nice and large, as is the cockpit. I did find the side decks to be non existent, and the tankage is a little small. . .but having experienced a 38 Bayliner, it's moved back up a few spots on the list!

Third one, "just because I wanted to look at a trunk cabin trawler":

Grand Banks 36:

1983 Grand Banks "36" Classic #687 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

To be honest, of all the boats I've looked at in person. . .I can see myself on the Grand Banks most of all if I was cruising. Not sure if it would get to small at the dock after a couple years. . .no real complaints other than the fixed table. I like the side decks, the aft deck is plenty big for some chairs and table/umbrella. The upper deck is nice and large. All the teak is intimidating though. Bed is huge compared to the Bayliner/President. Storage out the wazzooo!

This last one was a broker suggestion, since I mentioned my dad almost bought one to live on. . .Gulfstar 44 Motor Cruiser:

1979 Gulfstar "44" Motor Cruiser Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Huge is an understatement! For me, the epitome of a dock condo! Um, I would say it is too big. . .and a budget stretcher as far as per foot fees goes. . .if I had deeper pockets, yes. . .but it was still fun to look at. I'm not even sure I could single hand a boat like that

Anyways, thought I would share the progression of my adventure. More questions in subsequent threads to follow!

Wow, you really picked up a lot of valuable info fast. Glad to have your perspective on such different vessels. Great report!

We've passed thru AYB a few times, refueling and once for overnight docking. I don't know the exact connection between the yard and the brokers, but they do a great job of presenting broker boats on YW.

Good luck!!! Tha Bayliner sure looks like it was well taken care of. I think I would stretch for that over the Present. Nothing wrong with the Present but the Bayliner just gives you more room for not much more money. I would also prefer the Hino engines over the turboed Lehmans.

Good luck!!!! Exciting times for you!!!

Since I wasn't looking for a sea-going apartment, interior spaces weren't as important as ease of boat handling such as immediate access to a dock-level deck. We have different needs.

Here's the way I feel in general about the compromises of interior spaces vs other things, specifically regarding the concept of a sea going apartment.


On a given voyage I spend approx 5 minutes docking. Thre rest of the time I am either underway, anchor'd or moored at a dock.

I am quite happy to give up the ease of docking that side decks for example provide for being able to use the extra interior space the other 99.9% of my total hours aboard.

THe same goes for any other compromise that takes away from the interior usable space.

Time spent on a boat is to me sorta "playing house". Living on the boat. Doing the dail'y things in comfort.

Definitely more fun than house hunting

Sea-going apartment is pretty apt for my needs I think! I will be living aboard in a marina. 90% of my time will be tied up in a slip, so comfy and roomy are priorities If I start to need help, maybe that will push me to find a seagoing first mate

ksanders said:

I am quite happy to give up the ease of docking that side decks for example provide for being able to use the extra interior space the other 99.9% of my total hours aboard.

Click to expand...

Yes, but...you boat in freaking Alaska!

Ksanders has it right. WE did not want to give up much of anything in creature comforts. So, we kind of got the best of both worlds, an asymmetrical cabin. Full walk around on the starboard side and full width salon on the port side. With our open back deck, docking is really no problem on either side.

THD, we're not alike. While we usually dock starboard side (helm is to starboard and the propwalk is to starboard), there are occasions when docking on port side is more convenient, so I demand all-around deck access.

We (my wife and I) are with Mark on the deck thing. We bought a boat to go out on a boat, not to go out in our house. Neither one of us has any interest in living full time in something that can sink, so we don't care all that much about trying to have our boat emulate a house. We have a house when we want a house, so when we want a boat we want a boat, and we want a boat we can stroll all the way around on.

So for us, a full walkaround deck--- not a toe ledge, not shoe ledge, but a full, swagger-around-on-it deck-- is an absolute requirement for us (and our dog) on any boat we may have. We never know what side we'll be tying up on when we go places. We ask for a starboard tie because the cabin door's on that side but we just as often end up with a port tie. Doesn't matter.

Everybody is different, which is good or we'd all end up in the same place doing the same things with the same stuff, which would be Bad. But for us, a real boat has a real deck all the way around, end of story.

We get a lot of use out of our deck, front, back and sides. It makes almost everything we do on the boat that much easier or more enjoyable whether it's docking or taking photos or watching wildlife and passing ships (at eight knots we don't pass them, they pass us) or whatever.

We don't need that much interior space to be comfortable. As long as what we're sitting or lying on is comfortable, we're happy. So to us, a cabin that's a couple of feet narrower so the boat can have a full deck is not a sacrifice, it's an asset.

A body only needs a body's worth of space to stand, sit, or lie down. Anything more than that is unused space. It's visually appealing, sometimes, but space you're not actually occupying is just more space for the flies to buzz around in.

We like full walkaround decks for several reasons. Some of them have to do with how much more user friendly it makes the boat. Another is something that never occurred to us until the other day when a good friend came up to our boat with us. As we walked down the ramp to the main dock in our basin our friend, who with his brother owns a 50-plus year old 28' Richardson cabin cruiser their father bought new, remarked as he looked at all the newer production boats packed into the basin, "Man, this place looks exactly like an RV park." And as I looked out over the docks I could see what prompted his comment--- most of the boats look exactly like RVs.

It's funny...

People talk about the need for side decks like you cannot dock a boat without them.

Right outside my pilothouse door is a cleat. I can take three stps from the helm and be at that cleat, on either side. Out either pilothouse door and I can easily walk forward to manage bow lines as well.

The admrial's station is in the cockpit. That is a full width safe place to handle lines from, and the cool thing is it is near water level, so there is not much downward reaching needed. Although we manage our lines from within the boat, she can step through the transom door and onto the dock if needed.

So, for us we do not even think about side decks because they just are not needed for even storm condiition use.

I do not find fault in boats with side decks though. I can even see some advantages of them. I just do not see their functionality worth the decreased interior space.

For example we can sit six comfortably for dinner without blocking access through the salon to the cockpit.

As far as wanting a boat and not a house... We had a very fast 2859 Bayliner that I put a 375HP engine in. That was a boat. 27 knot cruise, 200+NM range, full galley, cabin with a vee berth and full stateroom.

This boat needed to be something different to appeal to us. It is a house on the water. Thats what we were after, and thats what we got. To those that want a boat and not a house, I understand that. We often miss the speed and manuverability of our boat.

One can always take a wide side deck to go from stem to stern if the saloon is crowded!

Dammit!!! I'm buying a Bayliner!!!!

The old saying the right boat "is three" lives on.

I have to say that I love the nautucal look of some of the boats represented here on TF.

The Coot is one of them!

THe KK42, Willard pilothouse, Chernubi, Malhide, N62

All GREAT looking boats!

ksanders said:

It's funny...

People talk about the need for side decks like you cannot dock a boat without them.

Click to expand...

I don't agree with that notion, either. The boarding gates on our cabin cruiser are located a couple of steps forward of the end of the aft cabin, so technically they are on the side deck. But the boarding gate could have been aft a few feet beside the aft deck and it still would have worked just fine.

However... one of the really handy things we have in our home slip where the prevailing wind blows us off the finger toward our slip mate is a permanent spring line we hang on a pole near the outer end of our finger. To use it, whoever isn't driving stands on the forward deck, lifts the loop of the spring line off the pole, walks aft and puts the loop through the midship hawse and onto the midship cleat and then goes aft to the boarding gate to step off with the stern line.

The driver takes up the slack in the spring line and then, with the rudder hard over away from the dock, uses the inboard (to the dock) prop in forward against the line to pull the bow in while the hard-over rudder moves the stern in. We can pin the boat to the dock no matter how hard the wind is trying to push us off it. The stronger the wind, the more power we add but the boat stays hard up against the dock. With the boat pinned to the dock it's easy for the person at the boarding gate to step to the dock with the stern line and secure it, then walk forward to take the bow line from the driver who has stepped out of the cabin and walked forward. With those two the lines secured the driver goes back and shuts down the engines and we make the adjustments needed on the dock to position the boat and get the rest of the lines set.

Be more of a hassle to do all this without a nice, wide, walkable side deck.

But I agree, it's possible to learn to dock just about anything successfully, side deck or no. So we don't view it as essential to docking; it just makes docking on the kinds of docks we have around here a lot easier.

We know one couple who sold their nice cruiser because the wife slipped on the boat's toerail while hanging a fender during a docking and ended up hanging halfway into the water from the grabrail on the side of the boat. She flatly refused to even get on the boat after that, so they sold it.

We know another couple with a Bayliner 3888 who stop outside every harbor they are entering, including their own, so the husband can shimmy out on the foot rail and hang the fenders because the wife refuses to do it. No big deal and they're getting used to doing this every time but it's still a bit of a hassle.

But, as both Mark and I have noted, full side decks make a number of other things easier, more pleasant, or even more fun. Our guests love the full side decks on our boat. They go out and take pictures, sometimes they just like standing out there watching the view, all sorts of things. Both dogs we've had with this boat have loved the side decks. The current dog likes to run around them just for fun.

And, as noted before, we find them a very aesthetic feature on a boat. One of things both of us enjoy about boating is being on a boat that looks like our idea of a "proper" boat. The brand of boat we have in the PNW is not at or even near the top of our list of what we consider a "proper" boat, but it comes a lot closer than most of the production boats on the market for the (very little) money, and one reason is its full main deck.

Mark's Coot is a very good looking boat, pilothouse windows notwithstanding, and one of the big reasons I think it looks like a "real" boat is its nice, wide decks all around.

Marin said:

... Be more of a hassle to do all this without a nice, wide, walkable side deck....

But, as both Mark and I have noted, full side decks make a number of other things easier, more pleasant, or even more fun. Our guests love the full side decks on our boat. They go out and take pictures, sometimes they just like standing out there watching the view, all sorts of things. ...

Click to expand...

I fully concur!

I like decks all-around. For sizing reference, the boat is 57' x 17.5',
the cap rails are 7.5" wide, the bulwarks on the well decks are 24" high.

Ted

Baker said:

Good luck!!! Tha Bayliner sure looks like it was well taken care of. I think I would stretch for that over the Present. Nothing wrong with the Present but the Bayliner just gives you more room for not much more money. I would also prefer the Hino engines over the turboed Lehmans.

Good luck!!!! Exciting times for you!!!

Click to expand...

Baker- just for the record- that is a President that was listed. Not Present.
Both are fine vessels .


1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

It's not possible for me to not love wide side decks (and solid railings).

ksanders said:

People talk about the need for side decks like you cannot dock a boat without them.
...
I do not find fault in boats with side decks though. I can even see some advantages of them. I just do not see their functionality worth the decreased interior space.

Click to expand...

Right, because - like you said - 99.5% of the time you and your guests are inside. But for us, most of the time our guests are outside (and I would be as well if I could run the boat from there). There's maybe 2 times each year - when we have 20+ people aboard - when I wish the saloon were larger. When it's just us - or me by myself - I don't want more space.

But I love our side decks. Not just for docking, though that's handy. And at the locks so we can see each other (we have headsets too). And when we have kids on board they can run around outside spraying each other with water guns. And our dog can patrol the perimeter (she sleeps on the side deck) and look in our portlight to check on us. And I can walk the dinghy around the boat without unsnapping the canvas. And I can go from bow to stern in a rainstorm without tracking through the boat. Or carry a bucket of seawater forward - or anything dirty or awkwardly shaped. Or let guests from rafted boats pass over us without coming inside.

Of course, proper side decks look better too! ?

Regarding bay liner:

The 38xx have a reputation of having overheating engines. The 'cure' is to put in larger SW intake thruhulls. If not competently installed they allow core and stringer water absorption. Make sure you have your surveyor check for stringer and bulkhead moisture. I found one for cheap because of this problem.

cool beans said:

Grand Banks 36:
1983 Grand Banks "36" Classic #687 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Click to expand...

What is the yellow on the bow of the GB.
Is a Chesapeake bow wave that dirty or did that boat sit bow down in some nasty place?

@ Kevin S.

I love the comfy and clean look of the lounge in your Bayliner. It look nice and snug.

Regards.

David.

cappy208 said:

Regarding bay liner:

The 38xx have a reputation of having overheating engines. The 'cure' is to put in larger SW intake thruhulls. If not competently installed they allow core and stringer water absorption. Make sure you have your surveyor check for stringer and bulkhead moisture. I found one for cheap because of this problem.

Click to expand...

Interesting, I owned one for 6 years prior to my current boat and never ran across that issue and never even heard of that before? Which engines? The Hino's? The best owners forum on the internet is the BOC. Bayliners Owners Club, no cost to join and if it has happened, been fixed, modified or changed on any Bayliner someone on that site can help out.

On another note, before purchasing my current boat, I was very interested in that 79 Gulfstar 44. It has been keep meticulous and when I looked at it a few years ago it had over 4000 hours on the Perkins now she's up over 7000. Strong testament to that boat as a cruising boat and the reliability of those Perkins. Not to mention a hell of a good price. I love the custom Nav station that was built. I have only used my 6 person wraparound dinette a half dozen times in the last 3 years. Damn I may have to take another look at that boat. I've been thinking of putting mine on the market anyway and downsizing slightly.

Forkliftt said:

Baker- just for the record- that is a President that was listed. Not Present.
Both are fine vessels .


1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

Click to expand...

Dammit!! Thanks for the correction. They both are spelled similarly and were always considered on my list very close to one another. And generally made during the same time. A "deliberate slip" on my part!!...

ksanders said:

It's funny...

People talk about the need for side decks like you cannot dock a boat without them.

Right outside my pilothouse door is a cleat. I can take three stps from the helm and be at that cleat, on either side. Out either pilothouse door and I can easily walk forward to manage bow lines as well.

The admrial's station is in the cockpit. That is a full width safe place to handle lines from, and the cool thing is it is near water level, so there is not much downward reaching needed. Although we manage our lines from within the boat, she can step through the transom door and onto the dock if needed.

So, for us we do not even think about side decks because they just are not needed for even storm condiition use.

I do not find fault in boats with side decks though. I can even see some advantages of them. I just do not see their functionality worth the decreased interior space.

Click to expand...

You make good points, but... for OPs benefit...

As with other boat topics, there are likely more facets to an issue like this; don't think it's simply a question of "Sidedecks: To be or not to be?"

You have a pilothouse door. Many boats don't.

I those that don't, it's not easy to deploy a spring line on a midships cleat from the cockpit, so sidedecks become useful in that kind of boat.

And so forth. For new shopers, probably useful to consider the whole package, not just one of several related features.

I'd like better sidedecks, myself. AND a lower helm. AND a door from lower helm to sidedecks. Wifey preferred slightly beamier interior. Our current boat is a compromise: accessible sidedecks, but nothing like a GB, etc.

-Chris

I don't think boats in the size you consider can be too big. Those extra few feet add a lot to interior volume living space. Don't forget boats shrink after the first few months of ownership.