Sundeck or Sedan?

Ted said:

I like walk-around with rails or high bulwarks

Ted.

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Me too.

Sixteen-inch side decks with strong (1.25-inch) railings:

One thing I forgot to mention about my experience with a sundeck is that age and fitness plays into whether a sundeck will be a good choice.

Access can be a little more difficult and my parents who are in their late 70's find the climb onto the boat more of a challenge then I do. If a person is considering a sundeck for the long term that might be a factor to work into the calculation. Will you want to deal with the access issues as time goes on? A sedan with a transom gate would be much easier to board for my parents and in-laws, so that might play into the next boat we get.

Have a 45 Jefferson and love it .
Has a hard top over aft deck with side curtains so it can be open while crushing or closed at the dock. Rib on top with digit. Large fly bridge with einglass all around,so all weather operations. Sun deck is great to entertain with a few chairs,couch and tables. Aft cabin with queen walk around and plenty of storage and head with shower. Salon have two recliners, foldout love sit and 40 flat screen TV.Lots of windows so plenty of light.Gally down with full size refrig with ice maker,oven/stove,m/w and plenty of counter space. Dinett off to side. Forward head and berthing forward. Easy boat for just the two of us to dock,or cruise and now have lived aboard for 4 year and enjoying it greaty in the keys. When looking beware of fuel tank issues,had to replace mine,but that's another story on this site. When you get to the keys let me know as our marina is in marathon and may have space.

markpierce said:

Me too.

Sixteen-inch side decks with strong (1.25-inch) railings:

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I really like your boat's thick handrails. Ours are 1" dia, surround every exterior portion of boat, and are suitable for sure... but your 1.25"ers show authority!

markpierce said:

Me too.

Sixteen-inch side decks with strong (1.25-inch) railings:

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Wifey B: You look like you're flying a kite.

Oh and I do like your side decks and rails.

This is where those idiots at Carver actually listen to their customers. I have a sundeck. I guess an Aft Cabin Motoryacht(ACMY) as it states on the side of the boat. Going from the sundeck to the swim platform is a nice set of stairs with a sturdy handrail. On the angled gunwhale/caprail(don't know what else to call it) is the aft cleat. Line handling is a non issue as is going to and form the aft deck to swim platform. The platform itself is all part of the hull mold. While the boat is 35 feet, if you include the swim platform, it is about 40 feet....and that is wetted surface that contributes to waterline length. Anyway, it is a wonderful set up and it pretty much negates the disadvantages of a sundeck. It also says "356" right there on the side so nobody can charge you more on a per foot basis. Anyway, this is the result of an American company with American engineers selling to American customers listening to American needs under the pressures of the American market. And that is a good thing.

DISCLAIMER...I use the term "idiots at Carver" sarcastically if you didn't figure that out. Carver gets such a bad wrap that I use a little self deprecating humor along with it. My boat is wonderfully laid out. It is amazing for a 35 foot boat. And it is an example of why boats from mainstream builders should not be overlooked.

And while it could never be considered classically beautiful, it is not ugly....at least not in my eyes. I am not trying to sell you on a Carver or any other boat like it. I am just saying do not overlook them. They provide tremendous value as it relates to cost and space. The ones under 40 feet are "usually" gas powered. But there are a few that were sold with the diesel option like mine. I went into the ownership of mine with all of the preconceived notions that everyone else has. And I have been surprised at every turn. Is it an offshore boat...no way!!! But I would not hesitate to take it offshore with regard to weather.

Baker said:

This is where those idiots at Carver actually listen to their customers. I have a sundeck. I guess an Aft Cabin Motoryacht(ACMY) as it states on the side of the boat. Going from the sundeck to the swim platform is a nice set of stairs with a sturdy handrail. On the angled gunwhale/caprail(don't know what else to call it) is the aft cleat. Line handling is a non issue as is going to and form the aft deck to swim platform. The platform itself is all part of the hull mold. While the boat is 35 feet, if you include the swim platform, it is about 40 feet....and that is wetted surface that contributes to waterline length. Anyway, it is a wonderful set up and it pretty much negates the disadvantages of a sundeck. It also says "356" right there on the side so nobody can charge you more on a per foot basis. Anyway, this is the result of an American company with American engineers selling to American customers listening to American needs under the pressures of the American market. And that is a good thing.

PS...I use the term "idiots at Carver" sarcastically if you didn't figure that out. Carver gets such a bad wrap that I use a little self deprecating humor along with it. My boat is wonderfully laid out. It is amazing for a 35 foot boat. And it is an example of why boats from mainstream builders should not be overlooked.

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Although you placed disclaimer on bottom of post... being owner of products sold on consumer market... before I read the disclaimer, I was taken a back. And, thought I might mention; how many readers (especially newbies to boating) might just read some or all of the top paragraph and not even notice your disclaimer. That sure would not be too good to help elevate Carver reputation and sales. Just sayen! -


EDIT: Baker, now that I read your next post re Carver - all is forgiven... well, most all - by me anyway! - LOL

Baker said:

. It also says "356" right there on the side so nobody can charge you more on a per foot basis..

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Oh, so wrong. They can...not saying they all will..charge you based on total length, including bow pulpit, including swim platform. Then some will charge you on the greater of that number or the slip you're in.

So on a Carver 356, they typical charge will be 42' as it's 41'2". You're probably best off telling them 40' so they don't measure to get the extra 2.

I don't know how it is in other places, but marinas I've been to are very careful and some measure every boat. Others just look the boat up online. There might be a few that would accept your boat as 36' simply be trusting you.

I guess down here we aren't as anal or quick to screw everyone out of just a few more bucks.

The ONLY time I have been charged for more than the advertised length of my boat was in Port Aransas. I had a Prairie 29. The thing looked way bigger than 29 feet. It was 29'7" LOD. I had the survey and was willing to show the harbormaster. He didn't want to hear it. I got charged the 30-40 foot rate as that is the way they did it there.

Baker said:

I guess down here we aren't as anal or quick to screw everyone out of just a few more bucks.

.

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It's not screwing anyone out of anything. It's treating all boats of the same total length the same. The entire length requires space. I wouldn't have expected you to have trouble on the one that was slightly over, but I assure you that if you told them 36' on your Carver in South Florida, most marinas would instantly know better. Most of the time in a slip, it's going to be the slip length that prevails, however, as it will be greater.

Baker,
Yes. Unbelievable amount of floor/deck space for a boat only five feet longer than mine. Surely the 35' length you stated does not include the bow pulpit. But it dosn't apear detachable.

I really should have gotten a Willard Voyager instead of the Nomad. Really like the Nomad though and ideally it would be extended on the port side to the rail. Wide body on one side. Would make my salon huge compared to the way it is now.

BandB said:

It's not screwing anyone out of anything. It's treating all boats of the same total length the same. The entire length requires space. I wouldn't have expected you to have trouble on the one that was slightly over, but I assure you that if you told them 36' on your Carver in South Florida, most marinas would instantly know better. Most of the time in a slip, it's going to be the slip length that prevails, however, as it will be greater.

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Boats are treated the same here. People believe what other people say without taking out a tape measure. With that said, most marinas frown on you hanging out of a slip. So, in that regard, I do not rent a 35 foot slip as I would be hanging WAY out. BUT, when I do a bottom job, I get charged for 35 feet. Transient slip....35 feet.....quick haul.....35 feet...etc. If the transient slip I rented was exactly 35 feet, then I would get a bigger one. But usually transient slips are "generic" and usually larger than the exact boat size listed...or at least that is my experience. I am not nearly as well travelled as many of you on here. I generally go to the same places simply because there just aren't that many places to go here. And there are many places that charge a flat fee for transient. The little boats get screwed....the big boats score!!!

we aren't as anal or quick to screw everyone out of just a few more bucks.

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But that sounds exactly what you are trying to do.. be careful with that "we", Kemosabe!

Docking in transit I have 34' x 12'6" Tollycraft; registered size.

Taking permanent slip in marina I want 40' x 14 minimum with both sides floating dock and roof over head.

Currently we have a 40' x 16' covered berth in enough water depth for going out or coming in on most tides. Really big tides at full moons can get some mud churning at dead low.


By "really big tides" in SF Delta I mean 4.5 +/- LOL They usually run from 2.9 to 3.75 feet

I love my sundeck. After living on it for 5 months you really come to appreciate the room. More room in our 35' Carver than most other 45' designs. Not bad looking either.

Why lie and cheat.

When somebody asks me for the length of my boat I tell them. If it had a 2' swim step and a 2' bow pulpit w an anchor that stuck out 1' I'd say "35' OAL on a 30' hull". Then they can apply the charge and appropriate fee for the services offered.

When asked, I usually say 35 feet. Hull is actually 35'8" not counting the pulpit and folded-up swim platform.

LowNSlow77 said:

One thing I forgot to mention about my experience with a sundeck is that age and fitness plays into whether a sundeck will be a good choice.

Access can be a little more difficult and my parents who are in their late 70's find the climb onto the boat more of a challenge then I do. If a person is considering a sundeck for the long term that might be a factor to work into the calculation. Will you want to deal with the access issues as time goes on? A sedan with a transom gate would be much easier to board for my parents and in-laws, so that might play into the next boat we get.

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Ditto here! The sundeck is great for living/ entertaining space- but man the stairs can wear your knees out. I still love all the real estate though.


1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

Mine is labelled as a 2870. I tell people it's 29'. I think with the pulpit I'm about 31'. Nobody has threatened to measure me yet.

I'm not sure why, but the previous owner thought It would be funny to put the badges from a 3070 on the side. I've been thinking about taking them off, but haven't yet.

I find all this measuring to the nearest inch for berth fees rather quaint actually. Over here in Aus, the usual approach appears to be along the lines of ok. How long a berth does your boat need to not stick out too much..? They are usually built in multiples of metres, so most marinas have a number of 9m berths, a lot of 11 and 12m berths, then a number of longer ones 14m plus. Whatever is the smallest berth your boat will fit, without protruding enough to matter, then that's what you pay for. My boat is 10.36m officially, I own an 11m berth. Not rocket science really. After all, surely the fair way to calculate cost is what amount of marina real estate a boat is going to take up..? If a boat is on a longer berth then it strictly needs, you can't use the remaining few feet (metres) it is not using. The water and power consumed will usually not vary that much anyway.

In our harbot the port charges for the length of the slip (unless it's an end tie) and the footprint of the boat using some forumula that's a mystery to everybody.

In our case, when they replaced our old dock with its 40' slips with a new dock with 45' slips we elected to pay more per month for the 45' slip rather than move to a 40' slip somewhere else in the harbor. We like where we are and it's worth the extra cost to stay there.

While the port has no problem with our keeping our boat in a slip thats longer than it is, this means they can't put a 45' boat in it. So the reasoning is that if we want to keep our smaller boat in a larger slip, we can but we have to pay the rate for the larger slip.

Seems fair to us, given the waiting list time for slips in this particular harbor. There are plenty of boats on the waiting list for a 45' slip and we're preventing one of them from having one.

Peter B said:

I find all this measuring to the nearest inch for berth fees rather quaint actually. Over here in Aus, the usual approach appears to be along the lines of ok. How long a berth does your boat need to not stick out too much..? They are usually built in multiples of metres, so most marinas have a number of 9m berths, a lot of 11 and 12m berths, then a number of longer ones 14m plus. Whatever is the smallest berth your boat will fit, without protruding enough to matter, then that's what you pay for. My boat is 10.36m officially, I own an 11m berth. Not rocket science really. After all, surely the fair way to calculate cost is what amount of marina real estate a boat is going to take up..? If a boat is on a longer berth then it strictly needs, you can't use the remaining few feet (metres) it is not using. The water and power consumed will usually not vary that much anyway.

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The measuring is often taking place on transient boats which often are docked in slips that may or may not be appropriate for their size or side tie's.

Standard dock leases in the US read "the greater of the slip length or the LOA of the boat including pulpit and platform". So basically it's the slip length as you describe, but if you extend beyond it, you are charged for the extra.

BandB said:

So basically it's the slip length as you describe, but if you extend beyond it, you are charged for the extra.

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So, how is that justifiable? What extra expense has been incurred by a marina for a boat that extends a few feet beyond the end of a slip (or that fills a slip) that a smaller boat easily could fit in? It's the same slip, why not charge a flat fee for it like the Aussie's sensibly do?

I do see some of the pricing practices as gouging boaters, including on haulouts. What additional lift capacity is needed to justify paying the per foot rate for swim platforms and bow pulpits? Maybe if you're in a crowded marina where space is at a premium for long term storage it can be justified, but for a short haul, it's just a money grab IMO.

All of this may be trivial dollars in the long run, but it furthers the feeling that boaters' wallets are fair game and ripe for plucking. It makes me greatly appreciate marinas that don't follow those practices.

Oh yeah. We love our sundeck.




(Sister ship photo; I don't have a good shot of our side decks)

Quote "Boats are treated the same here. People believe what other people say without taking out a tape measure. With that said, most marinas frown on you........." Wow, you expect people to believe what you say? I have a Trunk cabin, called a 37' but add in the anchor pulpit and dingy hanging on large stern davit well in the mid 40's.... Boat document reports 36.5 So I guess I'm a 36' paying for a slip and in the mid 40's at Happy Hour.....

Marin said:

In our harbot the port charges for the length of the slip (unless it's an end tie) and the footprint of the boat using some forumula that's a mystery to everybody.

In our case, when they replaced our old dock with its 40' slips with a new dock with 45' slips we elected to pay more per month for the 45' slip rather than move to a 40' slip somewhere else in the harbor. We like where we are and it's worth the extra cost to stay there.

While the port has no problem with our keeping our boat in a slip thats longer than it is, this means they can't put a 45' boat in it. So the reasoning is that if we want to keep our smaller boat in a larger slip, we can but we have to pay the rate for the larger slip.

Seems fair to us, given the waiting list time for slips in this particular harbor. There are plenty of boats on the waiting list for a 45' slip and we're preventing one of them from having one.

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The rule in our marina is no over hanging the dock and no sticking out into the fairway. You pay for slip length. We are in a 50 ft slip. With the bowsprit & anchor at the bow and dinghy on the stern we are at around 48 feet total. This for a 41 foot deck length. The marina doesn't measure, they just look down the docks to see if anyone is sticking over.., We are Very happy to pay the city for the great marina, clean facilities and security they provide.

Find the width of the berth often more limiting than its length.

My Present 42 is living in a 30 ft slip. We have forward mid-ship cletes so no worries! Only one boat on the pier is shorter than her slip!

34' deck length, 12'6" beam / 1'6" bow anchor sprit, 2' +/- swim step = 37'6" OAL.


40' long 16' wide berth works out just fine!

caltexflanc said:

But that sounds exactly what you are trying to do.. be careful with that "we", Kemosabe!

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But it says it right there on the side of the boat!!!!