Anchor Size for 40' Trawler

Hi folks,
I am looking at trawlers while I wait for someone to buy my sailboat. Now for my sailboat, which is 44' and 38000#, I have an 80# Manson Supreme on 300' of 3/8 chain. Overkill I know, but I sleep well at anchor, especially when the wind kicks up at o-dark-thirty.

What I have noticed with most trawlers under 50' is that they all seem to have undersized anchors (35-45#) in my opinion. It seems that trawlers have more windage than a sailboat, so why a smaller anchor? As we know, anchor size recommendations by manufacturers are not very helpful.

So, I'm just looking for opinions without igniting a big anchor controversy.

Thanks and cheers, Bill

Montenido said:

So, I'm just looking for opinions without igniting a big anchor controversy.

Thanks and cheers, Bill

Click to expand...

Welcome, Bill.

As for igniting controversy, I'm afraid you lit that fuse when you titled your thread.

The answer to your question will depend somewhat on the type of anchor and the configuration of the boat in terms of height, width, weight, etc.

We have a Rocna 20 (44 lbs) for our 36' 30,000 pound cabin cruiser. This was the size of anchor recommended by Rocna for our boat when I talked to them in New Zealand back in 2007 or 6 about their anchor, and it is the anchor we subsequently bought. For a 40' boat the Rocna 20 could be sufficient but I would probably be more inclined to go with the Rocna 25 (55 pounds) if the pulpit could accomodate it.

On the other hand, we also carry a Fortress FX23 as a stern anchor but it's sized to be the main anchor for our boat should we want to use a Danforth-type design under some circumstances. This aluminum anchor weighs about 15 pounds if memory serves.

So the design of an anchor plays a significant role in determining the ideal size/weight for a particular boat. In my opinion there is no one-size-fits-all formula for determining the optimal size of an anchor for a particular boat.

I would asses the windlass and look to the bow roller and simply decide which of the common anchors is the LARGEST size that can comfortably be fitted.

Plan on stowing an extra anchor of a different type , for different bottoms.

The best of course is a set of rollers so 2 anchors can be carried at the same time , and no effort is required to select the one you think best.

Actually the manufacturer's charts are pretty good; buy the one where your boat size is at the very bottom end of the range given. Fact is, a lot of weekend warrior pleasure boaters and/or marina hoppers don't take their ground tackle seriously. Before I take interest in what anyone has on their boat, I want to know them first.

The marinas may not be the best place to look at boats for their anchor size. Many marina boats only anchor out occasionally and then in fairly decent weather. If you can find boats that anchor out almost all the time then you have a good base to determine the proper size.

In the Eastern Caribbean where we anchor out almost all the time, the usual anchor weight starts at 70 pounds and goes up from there. The Nordhavn 46 next to me has a 110 lb anchor. I have an 88 lb anchor. I have repeatedly seen sailboats drag with 45 lb CQRs

" I have repeatedly seen sailboats drag with 45 lb CQRs"

Because CQRs suck.

????

Welcome aboard TF!!

IMO - Go with a Fortress FX in the next size larger than recommended for your boat. The considerably lightweight but very strong metal comp makes it easy to handle... so size larger creates no problem. It's several design improvements to Danforth (which it is modeled after) makes it well applicable to most bottom conditions. A fairly long chain (10' minimum - longer the better) to rope configuration helps keep its shank down in low angle to sea bed so the flukes dig in. Full chain rode even better! I would always have an alternative anchor on hand that could be used as a main anchor if needed.

Happy Anchor Daze! - Art

Marin has it right. A 55lb Rocna would be my choice for a 40'er and maybe one size bigger if you live aboard and stay on the hook in snotty conditions and absolutely can't afford to drag.

And while we are on the topic, nothing beats an all chain rode, probably 3/8" G4 for that size boat and anchor.

David

I think you're 80 pounds Mason will be perfect As long as your Bow pulpit will accommodate it

Montenido said:

What I have noticed with most trawlers under 50' is that they all seem to have undersized anchors (35-45#) in my opinion. It seems that trawlers have more windage than a sailboat, so why a smaller anchor? As we know, anchor size recommendations by manufacturers are not very helpful.

Click to expand...

The trouble with the word "most" is that it may depend on whether you mean the most you see, or most at the docks... and (as others have said) might not accurately mirror what you'd see from more frequent users. Dock queens, for example, may not even realize they have an anchor...

And it look to me like lots of powerboats in that range are simply delivered with a 35-lb Delta (if that big)... because that's an easy solution for dealers. Without regard to whether it's suitable or not. The original buyer must then be expected to replace that with whatever floats their boat.

I've found the tables to be OK, but at the same time I'm happy to make my own assessment about what windage might add to our particular situation... so starting with manufacturer's recommendations and adding some zen math from there usually works for me.

OTOH, I've also self-imposed a total weight limit on what I think I can bring aboard manually -- if the electric windlass craps out. I consciously decided I'm not mounting a 75-lb anchor (the next size up from what I've got now) because I don't want to try to dead lift 90-lbs or so (counting the last bits of chain) anymore.

And that weight limit also makes the Fortress models very useful, too. In our case, as our main spare.

-Chris

I have the 60 pound Manson Supreme for my 40...which I refer to as a small 39 footer based on waterline length and weight.


Anything bigger and going up to the 80 pound would be my choice...completely irrational like most anchor arguments...but it's my argument and I am sticking to it...

Manufacturers have a responsibility to get their recommendations right, and the bigger the recommended anchor the more $ it sells for, but you might go up a size if your boat is heavier/has greater windage than average.
Angus99 is right,for controversy, discussing ground tackle is just short of discussing wedding tackle.

If you buy a Super High Holding Power (SHHP) anchor it's silly to go oversize.

You're buying holding power. And high holding power in the widest range of circumstances. Many low performance anchors will be high performance if oversized compared to typical anchors. The Claws are very flexable. Accommodate all scopes, chain or no and most any kind of bottom. A 35 lb Manson Supreme or a 70lb Claw will both provide holding power for a 40' boat. The Claw will cost less and both will not require much chain.

But yes I'd say your 80lb MS is supreme. Should provide supreme performance for your boat. But a 45 lb MS would do the job just as well I think. I use both 15to 20lb high performance anchors and 25 to 35lb low performance anchors for my 30' boat. The flexibility to handle almost any situation is far better than the ability to score top dog at any one thing. Most anchor tests only test under ideal or typical conditions.

if only tested under ideal situations.... then going a little over the suggested sounds prudent to me...


overkill...maybe...but compared to all the other knuckleheaded discussions over hoses, hose clamps, quarter buttocks lines, riding sails and all the other things most don't really understand....going overkill on something I CANT see doing its job and just assuming what will happen...a little overkill is something I can live with after a lifetime of risking my life or reputation in boating related things.

Can't imagine you risking your reputation.

I think I'll add my thoughts that everybody commenting regarding the smallish ground tackle on most boats is 100% correct.

Most boats don't get used much. Most that actually get used rarely anchor out.

I've never ever heard anybody say they wished they had a smaller anchor, but I have heard the opposite.

My experience (with Danforths and claws) is that manufacturers' recommendations are sufficient (no failures) if the anchor type is suitable for the bottom type, the anchor is properly set, and there is minimal fetch. A "storm" anchor, however, needs to be bigger/heavier. Regardless, extreme conditions can overcome any of man's creations. I sail in protected waters, so recommended sizes are sufficient.

"You're buying holding power. And high holding power in the widest range of circumstances."

So the add sez,

I believe you are purchasing advertising hype and very very select "anchor tests".

There is NO majic in a new and improved lump of steel.

I much prefer to carry a number of good sized proven anchors , with line , ready to deploy than a highly hyped watch fob.

YRMV.

Anchor weight, overall anchor size, and anchor design are three very important anchoring (ground tackle) factors.


1. Weight = Extra Weight Needed - i.e.; if size is too small... design is poor... rode scope is too short... not enough chain stemming from anchor to line
2. Size = Extra Size is Good - i.e.; large enough to more than accommodate conditions experienced
3. Design = Best Design for Bottom Conditions - i.e.; mud, sand, clay, gravel, rock, weed...


Place all three factor-conditions together and it clearly appears to me that Fortress FX anchors win the prize for best overall anchor.


Why??? - Well, because: FX anchors have great design to well handle most bottom conditions and are built tough/strong with good materials. FX anchors each offer easily accomplished design alterations. And... very importantly... FX anchors are extremely light weight - so it is easy to handle larger models that can take care of conditions experienced per boat size; without placing undue weight on an anchor handler, over weighting a protruding pulpit, or over taxing any other location aboard boat. Also... if desired, FX anchors can be disassembled for compact storage inside boat confines.


Happy Anchor-Choice Daze! - Art

But Art,
Wev'e got our favorites too.
Not room on board for all of mine.

FF said:

"You're buying holding power. And high holding power in the widest range of circumstances."

So the add sez,

I believe you are purchasing advertising hype and very very select "anchor tests".

There is NO majic in a new and improved lump of steel.

I much prefer to carry a number of good sized proven anchors , with line , ready to deploy than a highly hyped watch fob.

YRMV.

Click to expand...

That got me wondering about who bestows the "high holding power" or "super high holding power" designations upon new anchors.

From wikipedia:

"Lloyd's Register provides quality assurance and certification for ships, offshore structures, and shore-based installations such as power stations and railway infrastructure. However, Lloyd's Register is known best for the classification and certification of ships, and inspects and approves important components and accessories, including life-saving appliances, marine pollution prevention, fire protection, navigation,radio communication equipment, deck gear, cables, ropes, and anchors."

...and what degree of performance (across various bottom types) must be met to attain the SHHP designation;

"HHP: The anchor must hold at least twice that of a standard stockless anchor of the same mass.

SHHP: Four times that of a standard stockless anchor, or twice that of a previously approved HHP anchor."

(The above from) Anchor Certification, HHP & SHHP Classification, Type Approval: Lloyd’s, RINA, et al

So...it appears those anchors with SHHP accreditation from Lloyds Register can hold their heads high, and those making big claims without having the balls to give Lloyds their anchor for testing are the shysters FF speaks of.

manyboats said:

But Art,
Wev'e got our favorites too.
Not room on board for all of mine.

Click to expand...

Verrrry true!

Bottom line, as said in a J Lennon song: "What ever gets you thru the night"

I still think there are plenty of cruisers that think along these lines...the anchor they hang on the front better grab.... and grab quick in case of an emergency


There are anchors with great holding power reputations but lousy setting records and vice versa.


Emergencies happen when you don't expect them.... weather usually gives you enough time to either break out a special purpose anchor or seek a more protected anchorage.....well at least in my case.


For that reason I hang the anchor that I will use in low to moderate anchoring conditions 90 percent of the time...and has a great quick set rep without care and maybe even short scope...


And I carry a couple other types for unusual or severe conditions...but they are stowed for when needed...not on the bow.

So Murray,
Is there a list of what anchors are HHP and SHHP?

So if one has a SHHP anchor he only needs a 20lb anchor where an 80lb "standard" anchor would normally be specified. Most on this forum replace "standard" anchors w a bigger HHP or SHHP anchor. Ever heard of anyone on this forum ditching their standard anchor and getting a smaller HHP anchor?

And as to that what is a standard anchor, Navy .. Danforth .. Claw?

So I've been using 15 lb anchors and all this time only needed 10?

MurrayM said:

That got me wondering about who bestows the "high holding power" or "super high holding power" designations upon new anchors.

From wikipedia:

"Lloyd's Register provides quality assurance and certification for ships, offshore structures, and shore-based installations such as power stations and railway infrastructure. However, Lloyd's Register is known best for the classification and certification of ships, and inspects and approves important components and accessories, including life-saving appliances, marine pollution prevention, fire protection, navigation,radio communication equipment, deck gear, cables, ropes, and anchors."

...and what degree of performance (across various bottom types) must be met to attain the SHHP designation;

"HHP: The anchor must hold at least twice that of a standard stockless anchor of the same mass.

SHHP: Four times that of a standard stockless anchor, or twice that of a previously approved HHP anchor."

(The above from) Anchor Certification, HHP & SHHP Classification, Type Approval: Lloyd’s, RINA, et al

So...it appears those anchors with SHHP accreditation from Lloyds Register can hold their heads high, and those making big claims without having the balls to give Lloyds their anchor for testing are the shysters FF speaks of.

Click to expand...

Shysters can be a disturbing crux... for many portions/items/things in life!

However, all who are called same by groups with high-flouting names may not actually be as such.

Therefore; IMHO - No matter Lloyds Register or otherwise... the proof is in the putting regarding "personal" experiences in anchors and the myriad processes/procedures/items contained in the ART of Anchoring.

Click on the below link and then email Rex. He'll sort you out with whatever you need to know.

http://anchorright.com.au/


Sent from my iPhone using Trawler Forum

manyboats said:

So Murray,
Is there a list of what anchors are HHP and SHHP?

Click to expand...

Google is your friend

manyboats said:

So if one has a SHHP anchor he only needs a 20lb anchor where an 80lb "standard" anchor would normally be specified.

Click to expand...

Nowhere in the references listed did they say that a SHHP anchor of 1/4 the mass would hold equal weight...just that an anchor of equal mass should hold 4 times the weight. Me-thinks there's a big difference there.

manyboats said:

And as to that what is a standard anchor, Navy .. Danforth .. Claw?

Click to expand...

The example in the wikipedia article was a Navy stockless anchor.

MurrayM said:

"HHP: The anchor must hold at least twice that of a standard stockless anchor of the same mass.[/I]

SHHP: Four times that of a standard stockless anchor, or twice that of a previously approved HHP anchor."

(The above from) Anchor Certification, HHP & SHHP Classification, Type Approval: Lloyd’s, RINA, et al

So...it appears those anchors with SHHP accreditation from Lloyds Register can hold their heads high, and those making big claims without having the balls to give Lloyds their anchor for testing are the shysters FF speaks of.

Click to expand...

I note that link is from Rocna.

Anyone know if there is an accredited list somewhere (or link) of Lloyd's-designated HHP and SHHP anchors? All I've found is one-off mentions, mostly be individual makers...


Edit: nearest I've come on a Lloyd's site is at https://www.cdlive.lr.org/information/default.asp?preOpen=Approvals -- but the link to Approved Anchors doesn't go anywhere.

-Chris

MurrayM said:

Nowhere in the references listed did they say that a SHHP anchor of 1/4 the mass would hold equal weight...just that an anchor of equal mass should hold 4 times the weight. Me-thinks there's a big difference there.

Click to expand...

Somehow that definition -- with focus on mass instead of size -- would seem to need some kind of exception for Fortress anchors...

-Chris