why we have a trawler and NOT a sailboat

Or, hours of boredom interspersed with moments of panic.

As Marin would say "How is you catch yield this year?".....

Trawler type.....

I don't know about going slow. I'd rather be on an equally sized sailboat on the open ocean than on a KK42. When we had our sailboat our best 24 hours was 196 miles. Now wet, that depends.

Edit: OK, OK, I see the humor but I still like to sail. There's nothing like a passage, in the middle of the ocean, with horizon to horizon stars, going 7 plus knots with no engine noise.

I'm with Larry.

I've been on sailboats from Annapolis to Providence, from Providence to Bermuda and from Norfolk to the VIs. Hardly going nowhere and I felt much safer in the sailboats in conditions in which I would not dream of taking a trawler out. I imagine many former sail boaters have had similar experiences.

Now the expense part I mostly agree with. Partly because two of those trips were on a 76-ft Alden cutter-rigged ketch. It was museum quality and had a full time crew. (The owner being the former owner of Alden Yachts helped here.) I do think fondly of his diesel bills, however.

Point to me is that it's a lifestyle choice just like anything else in boating. Priorities and interests change, which is why we're in a "trawler" now. Nothing right or wrong about either preference, IMHO.

"Trawlerin'"ain't nothing but sailin' with noise, and a bit more comfort.

Sail is an extremely antiquated means of propulshion.

Requires far too many boat design compromises and added expensive and weighty features including an engine for when the wind dosn't blow and maneuvering in harbor. The engine and sails and related rigging probably costs more than the boat. It's nuts that people still sail.

It's fun I'll admit I like to sail ... small boats like 12 to 19'.

If one boats only at a place like Bellingham Bay, big enough and the wind is almost dependable every day of the summer it makes sense and I'd recomend it to anyone that enjoys it. But if someone says "hey, let's go to Juneau" .. I'd say leave the sailboat or sell it. If you want to go somewhere get a good powerboat.

All I'm going to say is that I endured a VERY EMBARRASSING experience with a blowboat during my tenure as a cadet at Great Lakes Maritime that essentially turned me off to the whole thing for life. Pretty sure that I now know what inspired the likes of Robert Fulton and Olie Evenrude to go and accomplish what they did.

Well I don't know. I have made several trips on sailboats that were pretty darn comfortable. Those boats typically averaged 7-8 knots and could handle conditions that would destroy or sink most "recreational trawler type boats". As mentioned above, I would much rather be out in 25 knots and 10-15 foot seas on a sailboat than on a similar sized powerboat.

Where the powerboat (trawler type) excels is in having big windows and a cabin where you can sit comfortably while enjoying the surroundings.

manyboats said:

Sail is an extremely antiquated means of propulshion.

Requires far too many boat design compromises and added expensive and weighty features including an engine for when the wind dosn't blow and maneuvering in harbor. The engine and sails and related rigging probably costs more than the boat. It's nuts that people still sail...

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Eric: I can tell you have a sense of humor and are just baiting us sailors - and I'll bite. Lena and I crossed the Pacific, sailed to NZ twice, crossed the southern IO, across the Atlantic to South America and ended up on the East Coast. Something we couldn't do in a power boat if for nothing else we couldn't afford one large enough (plus fuel) for the comforts that we had on the sailboat. Your comment about engine, sails and rigging costing more than the boat, not close.

Here's our boat before we went back to the dark side.

presenting s/v Allons'y: a Semi-Custom Slocum 43

manyboats said:

But if someone says "hey, let's go to Juneau" .. I'd say leave the sailboat or sell it.

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Well.... maybe not.

Good friends of ours used to have a Newport 30 sloop. About five or six years ago they decided they wanted to go up the Passage to SE Alaska and explore around some. They allotted five months for the trip.

They made the trip and had a fantastic time. During that five months they were able to sail the boat exactly once, at the bottom end of Johnstone Strait when the wind, current, and their destination were all in alignment for a few hours. The rest of the time they motored. And for this five month voyage with all sorts of side trips their diesel consumption totaled------ 185 gallons.

By design and necessity sailboats are easily driven compared to the typical diesel cabin cruiser. So if money is an object in one's cruising, a sailboat, even under power, can be an economical way to go if the accommodations are acceptable.

Larry. Now that I've seen the Slocum, I'd say that the boat looks like the Krogen 42' of sailboats and the 42' looks like the Slocum of powerboats.

TDunn said:

Well I don't know. I would much rather be out in 25 knots and 10-15 foot seas on a sailboat than on a similar sized powerboat.

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Having weathered some nasty chop last week during our cruise on the Pamlico and Ocean south of Beaufort, I'd tend to agree. Admittedly, our 28 footer is a bit small, we'd have been much more comfortable in our old Bristol 35.5..

We used to sail, and when the schedule said we could go, we did. Weather be damned. Now it is on our schedule, when, where, and how we want to go. Lot's more weather laydays, and just sitting on the mooring having lunch. If I have a Hankerin for sailin' I'll throw the sunfish in the back of the truck and drag it down to the pond and get wet. The kids, and soon the Grandkids will enjoy that sunfish when it's time. But for now, I'll stick to trawlerin'. Good word there Ancora!

Confession: I have owned 2 sailboats and crewed on others.
We do an an annual cruise which includes a 20Nm coastal transit. Every year, for some reason, the northbound transit is rough. We usually catch up with our sailboat friends, sailing smoothly but slowly,engine noise free, angle of heel nicely balanced by sail and long keel interaction, while we bounce around affected by swell and wind waves accompanied by the sound of 2 Lehmans and their exhausts. That`s when I envy them.
But, when it comes to enjoying a drink and dinner in roomy surroundings, taking a hot shower, bedding down for a comfortable night, it`s a different story.

Marin said:

They made the trip and had a fantastic time. During that five months they were able to sail the boat exactly once, at the bottom end of Johnstone Strait when the wind, current, and their destination were all in alignment for a few hours. The rest of the time they motored. And for this five month voyage with all sorts of side trips their diesel consumption totaled------ 185 gallons.

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Now compare that to my experience. I left Port Orchard with full tanks and when I arrived in Ketchikan I filled up with 400 gallons. Toured around SE Alaska for a month and am now back in Ketchikan where I filled up again with almost 300 gallons. That's about 3.3 gallons per hour of runtime including heater and generator but I have been warm and dry.

windmist said:

Now compare that to my experience. I left Port Orchard with full tanks and when I arrived in Ketchikan I filled up with 400 gallons. Toured around SE Alaska for a month and am now back in Ketchikan where I filled up again with almost 300 gallons. That's about 3.3 gallons per hour of runtime including heater and generator but I have been warm and dry.

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I think that makes the point as good as any example I've read.

Wifey B: Too freaking lazy....we admit it. Sailing is work. We love to sail when someone else is doing the work. Like a charter in San Fran or Annapolis or Cancun.

Reason 2-Space...on a relatively small sail boat tis like a chamber to torture claustrophobic's. Might meet the boat half the equation but misses the vacation home half.

BandB said:

Wifey B: Too freaking lazy....we admit it. Sailing is work. We love to sail when someone else is doing the work. Like a charter in San Fran or Annapolis or Cancun.

Reason 2-Space...on a relatively small sail boat tis like a chamber to torture claustrophobic's. Might meet the boat half the equation but misses the vacation home half.

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Agreed.

A friend has a 36' mono hull sailboat that we go out on whenever possible.


Being under sail is a wonderful feeling. So peaceful and quiet. And the ride is better in rough water than any power boat I've ever been on...but...it's a lot of work! Sails, Lines.


The cabin is claustrophobic on a good day, and there's no where to see the outside, but outside. Great on a good day, not so when the weather gets ugly.

I'll stick to me powerboats, and whenever I need a sail...I call Tom!

BandB said:

Wifey B: Too freaking lazy....we admit it. Sailing is work. We love to sail when someone else is doing the work. Like a charter in San Fran or Annapolis or Cancun.

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It can be physical for sure. But a lot depends on where you sail. In small lakes and bays, you're going to stay busy. Along the coast, much less so. And if you catch the trades, you can pretty much set your course and run on the same tack for days. There is also something "live" about a sailboat; when the breeze and the swells are in sync, the rhythm is downright magical.

My thoughts on sailing

I had a sailboat, about 30 years ago when I was single. It was a Viking 28. I would single hand it around a the gulf islands and it was simplicity. A hand bearing compass and a couple of charts and I could go anywhere. The moment of turning off the engine and the silence of being under sail was magical. Its hard to match a long spinnaker run on a hot summer day. Or being closed hauled and your lee rail buried.

Unfortunately the wind was often just not there and I was under power a great part of the time. But the motion under sail and the safety of having that great big keel under you for stability can't be beat.

For most folks its MONEY.

If you want to cruise a long distance , most blow boats have the structure (scantlings) to go to sea.

Corcumnavigations have been done on really (20ft) sailboats.

The initial cost is minor and there is no fuel bill.

The marine motorists are delighted to be up in the air on a volume vessel and enjoy just being near the water.

Distances traveled are minor (compared to a world cruise) so the fuel bill is minor.

Both enjoy the water , its just a different hobby.

Wifey B: Actually we did like sort of own two sailboats once. They were promotional styrofoam sailboats one of the boat dealers had purchased with their name on the sails. He used them at boat shows for attention (really smart cause could put on top of a double deck pontoon and have the largest, highest sign at the show.) He sold them for like $120 or something as he bought way too many and no one really wanted them so we bought two. On Sunday afternoons when the lake was a madhouse, they were sort of cool to just float around on near our dock. Nothing but a piece of styrofoam and a mast and sail. Just a sail propelled float.

I love sailing but it's tough to say no to the comfort level even considering the trade offs for seaworthiness and sea kindliness. Comparing two trips in 50 knot winds and big seas the trawler was more comfortable but the sailing boat was faster and more exhilarating. I'm finally with Dashew and now on the dark side but in a condo class trawler although my wife wants our next boat to have sails.


Via iPhone.

I just got home from a trip to Barkley Sound. Lots of motorsailing as I was travelling on a schedule. Sails were invaluable for the steadying of roll they provided. The small performance boost of the sails was nice but not important.

The amount of wind and sail needed to eliminate virtually all rolling was quite small. The trip has opened my eyes to the concept of a motorsailer that is heavy on motor and light on sail. Some models with larger pilothouses appear to have quite spacious interiors.

-Safety and security of a deep balasted keel.
-Motoring efficiency of a sailboat.
-Rolling mostly eliminated (as long as one is OK with healing)
-Sails provide somewhat of a "get home engine".
-Dryness of a pilothouse.

I think I the concept has a lot of merit - far more than the low sales volume of these boats suggest.

Steve

On our recent holiday we bumped into some friends at Europa Point Hot Springs in Gardner Canal on BC's north coast. There were 5 of them who were aboard a 30 foot sailboat for a couple weeks...their eyes bugged out when they came aboard our 30 foot trawler with all that elbow room and liveable space

To be fair, their boat can handle far worse conditions, but there are so many places to duck into should the weather get snotty...and as former sea kayakers we keep a pretty close eye on if conditions will be worsening or not. Besides, anchoring in some new bay is an opportunity to hike and photograph a new creek, beach, or forest

The first time I saw the inside waters of the PNW was on a pair of ferrys, one from Prince Rupert to Kelsey Bay and one from Sidney to Anacortes through the San Juans. A friend and I were on our way back from a five week fishing and camping trip in the Yukon with my Land Rover.

While it would be another two years before I moved to the area and a bunch of more years before my wife and I bought a cruising boat, one thing that stayed iwth me that whole time was that all the sailboats I saw along the Inside Passage and through the San Juans were motoring.

Living in Hawaii, my friends with ocean-capable sailboats only motored in and out of harbors. Over there, the wind blows 24/7/365 and it's a lot of wind.

When we decided to get into cruising in the PNW, we thought about a sailboat. I like them and know how to sail them (but I was certainly no expert). But that memory of every sailboat running around under power, plus the fact that my wife (and I) did not particularly like the idea of being down in a cabin inside a hull with just slits for windows to look at at the terrific scenery around here, steered us to powerboats. We chartered one, liked it, and bought one.

I still think sailboats (nicely designed ones) are far more aesthetic and beautiful than powerboats, but in this area with its squirrely winds and strong currents and so much cool stuff to look at a powerboat to us makes more sense.

Some interesting comments.

I don't really see cruising type sailboats as being any more "work" than power boats. A couple minutes to raise the sails and you're away. Not really any more "work" than checking over the second engine of your twins.

And if you don't feel like raising the sails that day, there is no need to. You can still cruise at the same speed under power.

I do agree about how some sailboats are claustrophobic, but they don't necessarily have to be that way unless you want a bulletproof circumnavigator.

The 44 foot sailing catamaran I'm currently on with boom furling main, salon with wrap around windows, huge covered cockpit, would compare favourably with most trawler type boats in the areas of ease of operation, indoor and outdoor spaciousness, stability & speed.

But it is still not as cool as a trawler.

Just to stir things up, I have found:

Sailboats have an undisputed advantage in crossing oceans both because of range and seaworthiness.

Trawlers have an undisputed advantage in cruising America's Atlantic ICW and doing the Great Loop both because of mast height for bridges and the need to travel in narrow channels rivers.

Trawlers are more livable than monohull sailboats both in terms of space and the above the waterline windows.

The increased complexity of the trawlers is mostly due to added lifestyle equipment not necessary but good to have. Larger refrigerators, washing machines, automatic watermakers etc.

Neither sailboats or trawlers have a clear cut cost advantage IN THE LONG RUN as the initial cost of sails, rigging and canvas, and their maintenance and repair, makes up for the increased fuel usage on a trawler (full displacement type). (Note, I repeatedly ask sailors in the Caribbean how much they spend on these items over a five year period and compare it to my diesel usage.)

Bay Pelican said:

Trawlers are more livable than monohull sailboats both in terms of space and the above the waterline windows.

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Contrasted with...below waterline windows? ?