Barge passing etiquette

SaltyDawg86 said:

About 90% of the world uses a light system that's opposite of us. Why we have to be the odd man out, I have no idea.

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Metric Lights??

We had an old thread that has probably been deleted called "passing and being passed". Maybe it's time for another.

Moonstruck said:

Many of the tows I have encountered would just say pass on the one or two. They may say I'll see you on the one. I have always remembered it like this: One whistle my port side. Port one syllable. Two whistles my starboard side. Starboard two syllables. Has worked for me about 40 years.

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That is pretty much my experience on the upper mis and the Illinois rivers, VHF channel 14 is what I always hail them on. Had one tow captain tell me to pass on the "black" when I was overtaking him a few years ago, I passed on his port side because it looked to be the best side to pass on. Had a tow captain last week invite me to tie up to one of his barges while both of us were waiting to lock, I really appreciated that.


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River Cruiser said:

That is pretty much my experience on the upper mis and the Illinois rivers, VHF channel 14 is what I always hail them on. Had one tow captain tell me to pass on the "black" when I was overtaking him a few years ago, I passed on his port side because it looked to be the best side to pass on. Had a tow captain last week invite me to tie up to one of his barges while both of us were waiting to lock, I really appreciated that.


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Never heard pass on the black. I take it to mean the black/green marker side?

Our marina on the lake is just above the Chickamauga locks. A private vessel has no priority, and can be held for up to 4 hours. I had gotten to know the tow boats that regularly ply our waters. We were waiting behind the tow boat John Henry for a lock up. The Capt. saw our little trawler behind, and called on the radio. He said, "China Doll come on up here. I'm going to send you up ahead of our next barge. We were home free. When the John Henry came out we ran out in our Boston Whaler with a cold case of beer for the crew.

We were one of the few boats that would regularly anchor in the coves. Running all night, the pilots would get lonesome for conversation. After they got to know us a couple coming through would call and say, "China Doll, are you around tonight". I would usually be sitting on the top deck with my hand held radio. They would talk about all sorts of things.

Lots of times they are active on a ship to ship channel like 78, 80, 81... call traffic on 14 and ask what channel they are working, then hail them there.

Moonstruck said:

We were one of the few boats that would regularly anchor in the coves. Running all night, the pilots would get lonesome for conversation. After they got to know us a couple coming through would call and say, "China Doll, are you around tonight". I would usually be sitting on the top deck with my hand held radio. They would talk about all sorts of things.

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Down along the ICW we have many Cajun tow captains. Without a doubt some of the best story tellers around. What would take us a few minutes to relate, these captains embellish and draw out the most simple stories to over an hour! Great entertainment while on the hook along the ICW!

Giggitoni said:

Are Canadian lights reversed from USA lights? I noticed in Europe the "red right return" thingy is reversed to "green right return". Same in Canada?

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Look up 'IALA "A". Or. 'IALA "B" countries. That will fill that gap.

Www.navipedia.pl/en/naviaidsiala.html

ragin cajun said:

Down along the ICW we have many Cajun tow captains. Without a doubt some of the best story tellers around. What would take us a few minutes to relate, these captains embellish and draw out the most simple stories to over an hour! Great entertainment while on the hook along the ICW!

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R.C.- Of course it would take a cajun that long to tell a simple story...over the VHF. You must take into account that his (or her) hands are not visible over the radio!

Vashon_Trawler said:

The boats I usually pass are docked, moving in reverse, anchored, or are marked "PA" on the charts.

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You must be on my boat then. EVERYTHING passes me. Heck, I was even overtaken in the Erie Canal by a one man shell! But I got him in distance!

I read an article in a sailing magazine. The author was the captain of a sailboat in a regatta that circumnavigates Long Island. It was dark and early in the morning and they were becalmed and in fog. The foredeck had been trying all night to get the spinnaker to catch at least a little wind. Finally they were successful. The spinnaker had taken shape. It was just getting light and they noticed a boat was astern and gaining on them. So it made their mission even more purposeful. As the boat began to overtake them, they realized that the boat was anchored!!!! They were going backwards with the tide and their rearward motion allowed enough relative wind to fill the spinnaker!!!!

cappy208 said:

You must be on my boat then. EVERYTHING passes me. Heck, I was even overtaken in the Erie Canal by a one man shell! But I got him in distance!

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Kayaker keeping pace at Coot's cruising speed:

Baker said:

I read an article in a sailing magazine. The author was the captain of a sailboat in a regatta that circumnavigates Long Island. It was dark and early in the morning and they were becalmed and in fog. The foredeck had been trying all night to get the spinnaker to catch at least a little wind. Finally they were successful. The spinnaker had taken shape. It was just getting light and they noticed a boat was astern and gaining on them. So it made their mission even more purposeful. As the boat began to overtake them, they realized that the boat was anchored!!!! They were going backwards with the tide and their rearward motion allowed enough relative wind to fill the spinnaker!!!!

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Had a similar experience racing on San Francisco Bay a half-century ago when we were moving forward through the water. "Why is that boat pulling ahead? Oh, he's anchored!" We quickly followed the tactic.

SaltyDawg86 said:

About 90% of the world uses a light system that's opposite of us. Why we have to be the odd man out, I have no idea.

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Someone told me that during the Revolutionary War (War of 1812?), the colonists reversed the channel markers to try to confuse British ships, and it stuck. No idea if that is true.

Cottontop said:

Someone told me that during the Revolutionary War (War of 1812?), the colonists reversed the channel markers to try to confuse British ships, and it stuck. No idea if that is true.

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I doubt if "Red Right Returning" had anything to do with the Revolutionary War, because buoyage systems were not standardized until quite recently; you would have found red buoys to starboard in the UK as recently as the 1930's.

Prior to 1976 there were more than thirty different buoyage systems in use world-wide, many having rules in complete conflict with one another. To address these conflicting requirements, it was thought necessary as a first step to formulate two systems, one using the color red to mark the port side of the channels and the other using the color red to mark the starboard side of channels. These were called System A and System B. respectively.

It would be nice if everything was standard. Everyone use Region A and all charts in meters and I bet the accidents drop some.

In my pilothouse I have visual clues. It's helpful when tension is high (meeting a barge and tow in a narrow channel for instance) and if I have a visitor aboard.



With it I don't have to be smart. It's green. Two bells. And on the port side a red needle-crochet circle with one bell. Not fancy, but it works.

Great idea, Janice. I might copy that one.

LarryM said:

I doubt if "Red Right Returning" had anything to do with the Revolutionary War, because buoyage systems were not standardized until quite recently; you would have found red buoys to starboard in the UK as recently as the 1930's.

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You forced me to do a little research, and unfortunately (I liked the Revolutionary War explanation), it seems Congress adopted "red, right, returning" in 1850. Port buoys were black, and only changed to green in the 1970s, after Coast Guard studies showed green to be more visible.

I didn't find anything explaining how the world came to have, generally, two opposite color systems.

BTW, and completely off topic, what are now green buoys used to be black on the river systems, back in the last century.

I hate to even say this, but I am old enough to have seen black buoys.

That's the reason I responded to the "pass on the black" as"I take that to mean the black/green marker side".

Cottontop said:

You forced me to do a little research, and unfortunately (I liked the Revolutionary War explanation), it seems Congress adopted "red, right, returning" in 1850. Port buoys were black, and only changed to green in the 1970s, after Coast Guard studies showed green to be more visible.

I didn't find anything explaining how the world came to have, generally, two opposite color systems.

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Actually, I always liked the Revolutionary War explanation too.

I became more curious and found this reference that speaks to the origins of buoyage systems and specifically states this about the beginnings of the US system.

"By 1846, Secretary of the Treasury Robert Walker admitted that buoys placed by local authorities under loose regulations, coupled with the lack of standardized colors and numbers, were practically useless. Congress, sensitive to complaints about the ATON system, began taking steps to correct the problems in 1848. It adopted the Lateral System for implementation nationwide. It is from the Lateral System that the familiar "right, red, return" has its origin."

Supposedly, the UK did not adopt green to starboard inbound until the 1970's when the IALA set up its international standard.

Prior to that it was black to starboard, mostly, with red to port, but that only really came in after WW2 - before then local harbor authorities did as they pleased.

As recently as the 1930's the buoyage in Harwich harbor, most definitely in England (the Mayflower's home port was Harwich) was "red to starboard inbound" just like the US system.

Nautical history and lore fascinates me.

Green running light is on starboard. Pre-dawn on SF Bay:





Red is on portside. Queen Mary docking in SF:

Another tidbit: The buoy system and aids including lighthouses was one of the many issues leading to the civil war. Southern states felt the out of control congress was spending more $ in Northern Ports and for Northern shipping interests than in the South. The aforementioned Congressional decision on Red Rt. Return of 1850 had funding attached to it.
dan

Moonstruck said:

I hate to even say this, but I am old enough to have seen black buoys.

That's the reason I responded to the "pass on the black" as"I take that to mean the black/green marker side".

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Me too and I am not that old

Me too and i'm WAAAYYY younger than Don!

Sailor of Fortune said:

Me too and i'm WAAAYYY younger than Don!

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OK, Kids, you've had your fun now.

Moonstruck said:

OK, Kids, you've had your fun now.

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well it just felt right