Planning Numbers

There are a few older boats I like but the engines, not so much.

Other than badgering a dealer and forcing him to make a WAG is there a good way to come up with a ball park planning number for a repower?

I understand each turn of the wrench may uncover another problem but just assume a middle of the road scenario.


Thanks
Ken

The actual cost of an engine/tranny should be pretty straightforward. The cost of the removal and install not so much. But any reputable shop that does such work should be able look at the job and give you a pretty accurate estimate for the complete job. Without knowing more about your boat, power needs, location, etc. not much more to offer.

Rebuild or repower? I can rebuild my FL SP135 for 10K plus in/out and shipping. Two years ago a new Lugger was between $34.5K and $39K with little engine bed modifications.

ktdtx said:

Other than badgering a dealer and forcing him to make a WAG is there a good way to come up with a ball park planning number for a repower?

Click to expand...

A dealer isn't going to tell you much...spend $25 and join Boat diesel.com and put your question to Tony Athens. He's done a ton of repowers.


http://boatdiesel.com/Forums/index.cfm?Search=2

Larry M,
Who needs a Lugger? Many many great engines not related to Luggers.

For FAR less money one can find engines but the marine conversions aren't all great. I don't know of any bad engines and very few conversions are suspect.

But when you can buy a new engine for 25 to 35% more than a rebuild of a very old engine w known cooling system problems ... I can't see the logic in it.

I'm on boat diesel and have "invested" some money with Tony Athens for past potential purchases.
Just looking to collect whatever relevant information I can.

At least, now I know that whatever boat I get isn't a trawler unless it comes with nets.

manyboats said:

..But when you can buy a new engine for 25 to 35% more than a rebuild of a very old engine w known cooling system problems ... I can't see the logic in it.

Click to expand...

Rebuilding the existing has the advantage that it fits,the gearbox fits, it needs no new wiring, gauge changes, etc etc. That`s a balancing consideration in a decision to rebuild or replace.

THD said:

The actual cost of an engine/tranny should be pretty straightforward. The cost of the removal and install not so much. But any reputable shop that does such work should be able look at the job and give you a pretty accurate estimate for the complete job. Without knowing more about your boat, power needs, location, etc. not much more to offer.

Click to expand...

I agree. Boat size and type, and engine size will be important factors. eg getting big DD's out of an old Hatteras would not be easy. But if it helps my new JD 6068's were about $28k each. Twin Disc 506 overhaul/rebuild $3.5k each.

Access will determine total cost, but you might allow about half of the above costs for remove/replace, engine mount modification etc. You might need some work on your exhaust system, and if your repower gives different HP at different rpm to the old engines then gearbox ratio and/or props could need changing also. But as THD said, a decent yard should be able to give a reasonably good cost estimate before you haul out.

IF you are going to have the work done , a rebuild is the cheapest.

Have the yard R&R , but get the rebuild done by a rebuildrer for that particular brand .NOT THE BOAT YARD!!!!

IF you will do the work copying what the commercial lobster folks do would reduce the cost be 80-95% .

A Used running take out from the wreckers, industrial , built , not car or pick up truck.

A rebuilt commercial grade tranny (Twin Disc)

Work out a dry stack setup for the exhaust , just exhaust pipe inside a fireplace double walled flue.

Use a keel cooler for the engine,

Modify the engine space and cabin if required so a crane can swing the old engine out and the new one in.

A weekend is usually more than enough time to R&R , after the first change over.

JD if that's your choice for some reason will sell factory rebuilt TRACTOR engines a few times a year with NO core charge .

The International DT 360 or 466 are my first choices in the 100 -200 hp range.

$3000-4,000 for a fresh out of a crashed skool bus engine, and the fun begins,

The costs for repowering can vary wildly. Often you won't be replacing same for same. Either minor or major modifications will be required.

It may or may not require substantial changes to engine bed, larger exhaust system, re-piping fuel lines, moving batteries, wiring changes, helm station gauge panel modifications, larger thru-hull for water intake, shorter/longer prop shaft.

Also, during a repower job, it is likely other problems will be discovered. Leaky fuel tanks, water saturated stringers, wiring problems, etc.

There are also numerous jobs that are worth considering doing while the engine is out and access is much easier, such as cleaning/painting the bilge, and cleaning fuel tanks.

To replace my old Volvo with a 42 hp Vetus the costs consisted of the new engine and gearbox AUS$11,000 (about US$8200) plus about $1000 for 2 lifts out of the water to pull the Volvo and drop in the Vetus. My son and I handled the labour ourselves, so I can't give you an cost estimate on that.

The job turned out bigger than expected due to discovering leaky fuel tanks, a decision to do a major rewiring upgrade, relocating the batteries, etc. In all, another $3000 in materials and over 200 hours were invested and I still have a few little things to finish off.

To summarize - far too many variables to give an accurate estimate, but for a small engine like mine, expect a bill of about US$13,000 minimum. Double it for worst case scenario.

I found getting prices for new engines to be a bit like pulling teeth. For some reason engine dealers are quite reluctant to give out prices.

My repower was from a chrysler crown flathead 6 gasser to a Volvo-Penta d2-40 diesel. The two engines were vastly different in size and weight. Because of those differences I completely rebuilt the engine compartment (new stringers, new engine beds, fiberglass pan under the engine, new forward side and aft bulkheads with sound insulation, new raw water seacock and strainer, completely new fuel system (tanks, plumbing, dual racor filters, fuel fills, etc.), new cockpit sole panel with sound insulation to replace the old engine box, new coupling on the shaft, repitch and recondition prop, all new wiring, new automatic fire extinguisher with automatic shutdown for the engine, all new engine gauges and shifter/throttle control, new control cables, etc. I had the old engine removed and had the new engine set into the cockpit by a boom truck. I built an a-frame on wheels to move the engine into the house and lower it into the engine compartment. It was a pretty big job. Costs were:

Remove old engine (includes moving boat to and from boat yard on hydraulic trailer - $800

Modifications to engine compartment - $400

New fuel system - $1,000

Wiring, fire suppression, etc. - $600

Engine (including transmission) - $8,900

New exhaust - $400

Engine controls/cables and required cabinet work - $500

Miscellaneous (A-frame, chain fall, specialized tools, etc.) - $400

The total was about $13,000

I did all the labor myself.

Thanks for the input.
Was just trying to see if I could sharpen the number.

Seems would be difficult to get more than a wide range as a planning number (which is OK) for a particular model boat as many of the variables would be boat specific--
Even within one particular model the access, engines being removed, engines going in, etc will vary quite a bit.

"Vary quite a bit"

Yes but even you can tell if a new or different engine will be labor intensive to install. Look at the location of the things in question like height of prop shaft and location of exhause plumbing. Many engines are just about a shoe-in installation. Mine was close to that. I retained my BW gear and bought an engine that bolted right to BW. I moved the aft engine mounts not because of the repower but to balance the weight much better on the mounts. The engine Klassen wanted me to get had a low mounted starter and I considered that unacceptable. It was a 2500rpm engine and had a stellar record in the field.

Other engine changes can be a royal PITA but w a little contemplation those can be identified and avoided.

The way many people use their trawlers now most are over powered and repowering is a golden opportunity to fix that. Frequently large amounts of extra weight can be eliminated in a repower. And buying an engine that's not high end will save many thousands. Just for my little boat I saved $4000. Lugger had a suitable engine (so did Yanmar) hardly any better (if at all) than my Klassen/Mitsubishi but much more expensive .. and for what? Mostly bragging power.