Sometimes big engines are an advantage

I blame Romsdal.

Just remember...there is arguing to make a point and arguing for entertainment.


Guess I may be ignorant...but nobody that knows me has every called me stupid.

psneeld said:

Just remember...there is arguing to make a point and arguing for entertainment.


Guess I may be ignorant...but nobody that knows me has every called me stupid.

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nor entertaining???

Now I don't know if I own a trawler, a dependable diesel cruiser, if I have the right anchor, if my twin engines were a mistake and should have been a single, and if I'm duped by advertising. The only thing I'm sure of now is that I'm missing my damn shoes.

Howard

At least once a week some newbie comes here seeking advice on buying his first big boat, a trawler. He has been sold a bill of goods that the name trawler means something desirable about the boat. Few are considering ocean passages but most have bought the idea that because it is called a trawler it is more economical, more robust and better at sea keeping. Considering the wide range of boat designs called trawlers how could those features be universally true?

Marin nobodies fool'in anybody but you're trying.

To call a cruiser a trawler simply implies there are elements of the heavy cruiser that resemble the heavy elements of a fishing trawler. It was obviously felt that the expression heavy cruiser wasn't strong enough. Some person probably in conversation wanted to emphize the robustness of a certian boat and let slip w the word trawler. One or more in the conversation used the word again to the same end and the rest is history. So a yacht that was a heavy cruiser became a trawler and for many decades the word lived in two different worlds naming different vessels. The trawler fishing fleet didn't mix w the yachies and the yachies didn't mix w the fishing fleet and a trawler was a trawler. Depending on which world one happened to be in at the time.

All was well in boat land untill you came along and said a trawler wasn't a trawler. Should'a picked on the minority instead of the majority. Many thousands fewer apples would have fallen off the cart.


bayview,
They are .. almost.

hmason,
Before and after you find your shoes you do indeed have a trawler. But only one kind of trawler.

Many boats:
Not true. based on hull shape alone there are few similarities in the boats called trawlers.

O C Diver said:

Do you feel ignorant, duped and scammed by American Marine for marketing a "Diesel Cabin Cruiser" that implies traveling great distances in a reasonable time frame like a warship?

Ted

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His outrage is so selective and over the top. Why doesn't he feel ignorant, duped and scammed that they were named "American Marine?"

If the use of the word "trawler" upsets Marin so, I'd hate to see how outraged something truly important would make him.

He's trying to make it appear he's intellectually superior to the rest of the world because he knows what a "trawler" is. He's failing miserably in that quest.

I believe this same comparison was used by one of the major players in this discussion in a "prior" ...."what is a trawler" discussion.

Blind men describing an elephant....

bayview said:

At least once a week some newbie comes here seeking advice on buying his first big boat, a trawler. He has been sold a bill of goods that the name trawler means something desirable about the boat. Few are considering ocean passages but most have bought the idea that because it is called a trawler it is more economical, more robust and better at sea keeping. Considering the wide range of boat designs called trawlers how could those features be universally true?

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Bayview, you have obviously stumbled upon the obvious . . . . it is not universally true.

Marin, for all of his biting, confrontational commentary on this subject, has a very valid point. The term 'trawler' does suggest certain qualities that are simply not there in many so-named boats. After a couple of years on this forum, I like to believe that most of the participants are experienced enough to know what they require in a boat for their style of boating, and pay no attention to what it is called. Brand loyalty and perceived build quality is another thing entirely, but whether or not it is called a 'trawler' is not a factor for most in my opinion.

That said, I'm sure there are some first-time boaters that are seduced by, and misled by the term 'trawler' and make some very poor and perhaps even dangerous choices. Hopefully these are few and far between.

Marin said:

The depth of ignorance on the part of the buying public can truly be amazing at times. We thank you for the complment!

The scam, for those of you who still don't get it, was to make an inexpensive pleasure boat aka cabin cruiser appear to be more rugged and "tough" than it really was by sticking the name of a commercial fishing vessel on it in the hopes that the toy boat crowd would be fooled into thinking they were getting a much more capable, strong, better built boat than they actually were. Kinda like calling an average SUV a "Landcruiser" or a float plane a "Beaver."

It just means the user is ignorant, at least of the language. Again, the Forum thanks you for your "idiotic" slings and arrows.

There are two things that really annoy me: revisionist history and ignorance of one's language. Really? Only two?

I don't give a crap what a person wants to call their boat. WOW! You certainly fooled me!


The folks at American Marine, however, were clearly paying attention in school during the lessons on nouns and they called their new Grand Banks boats exactly what they are: "Dependable Diesel Cruisers." Now, there is a "catchy" marketing phrase!

Meaning, for those of you who have a tough time with all definitions.... Apparently we aren't the ones who have a tough time with definitions...

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Why do you persist with constantly demonstrating your own perceived intellect? It's become laughable!

:lol:

BandB said:

Why doesn't he feel ignorant, duped and scammed that they were named "American Marine?"

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The company was named that because it was started by and belonged to Americans living in Hong Kong. And if one knows the story behind the founders there was also a patriotic element to the name. Christ, even my dog knows this stuff...

He's trying to make it appear he's intellectually superior to the rest of the world because he knows what a "trawler" is. He's failing miserably in that quest.

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No, I'm not. You all are making it very easy for me (and the few people here who actually understand what a trawler is and isn't) to demonstrate how incredibly successful the marketing ploy has been. I can certainly understand your staunch defense of your misguided beliefs-- nobody likes to admit they've fallen for a ruse. But the recreational boating market clearly has.

And since this has become something of a remedial third grade English class, let me help you with another word you lot clearly don't understand, and that is "cruise.". This is from the Merriam-Webster dictionary, which is a big book that lists the correct definition of words, something some of you might consider purchasing. American Marine obviously had one.

Cruise: to travel on a boat or ship to a number of places as a vacation
of a car, airplane, etc. : to move along at a steady speed
: to drive or be driven slowly.

And let's define "cruiser" another word that seems to totally baffle a lot of you. Pay particular attention to the second half of the definition. From the same dictionary....

: a large and fast military ship
: a boat that has room to live on and that is used for pleasure

Now I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you know what the words "dependable" and "diesel" mean. if not let me know and I'll provide definitions of those words, too, free of charge.

And finally, from the same dictionary...

Trawler: a boat that is used for catching fish with a large net (called a trawl)
Full Definition
1 : a boat used in trawling
2 : a person who fishes by trawling
First use: 1629

So perhaps you are beginning to get a glimmer of why American Marine chose the slogan "Dependable Diesel Cruisers" for their boats and didn't call them "trawlers."

Back to engine sizes:

When I was building my boat, I knew it was going to be dual purpose- ok at hull speed, and ok planed out. I figured for 20kt planing I would need around 250hp at the shaft.

I went engine shopping after I flipped the hull. Looked at Cat, Deere, Volvo, Cummins, MAN and a few others. Since being in the engine business, but a dealer of none, I knew what I was looking at but still was going to pay retail.

Focused on Cummins. Either 6BTA 370 or 6CTA 450. A 370 would be happy running at 250.

But my fellow gearhead buds had other plans. The conspired to convince me to go with the 450. Speed freaks they are.

I bent to the marketing without even realizing it. Found a used 450 and bought it.

Now after 7 years of running the boat, I am glad I did. Boat ends up needing about 220hp for 20kts, and it does this around 2000 rpm. It cruises nice at 18kts and 1850-1900rpm.

A mid sized straight six makes a nice sound running at 1900. The B-motor would have to run at like 24-2500 to do the same. They don't sound happy there, but are ok.

Later as I got into doing more in depth analysis of various engines, I found the 6C had better specific consumption when making 220hp than the b-motor, or anything else in that hp class.

It also is dang good BSFC at hull speed at 950rpm. Not great for obvious reasons, but still pretty good.

So I'm happy with my choice.

Big beast has been rock solid, too.

Kinda like calling an average SUV a "Landcruiser" or a float plane a "Beaver."

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No it's not, Walt, and I thought you were way smarter than this.

The "thing" is a floatplane. That fact and its definition never change. The model number and name of this particular floatplane is DHC-2 Beaver. A trawler is a thing and the word has a set definition. There are a whole lot of companies that make trawlers (hint--Ocean Alexander isn't one of them) and I suspect they give their vessels model numbers or names. But if they are fishing vessels that use trawl gear, regardless of the make and model names, they are all trawlers.

Very, very basic stuff Walt. You should know this given the impressive things you've accomplished in your life.

BTW, If one knows anything about marketing, "Dependable Diesel Cruisers" was indeed a very catchy slogan for the 1960s and 70s and it helped American Marine sell a hell of a lot of boats. Which, I'm pretty sure, is what they were trying to do. I could explain why those three particular words work so well together but that's another topic altogether and nothing to do with boating.

Marin said:

No it's not, Walt, and I thought you were way smarter than this.

The "thing" is a floatplane. That fact and its definition never change. The model number and name of this particular floatplane is DHC-2 Beaver. A trawler is a thing and the word has a set definition. There are a whole lot of companies that make trawlers (hint--Ocean Alexander isn't one of them) and I suspect they give their vessels model numbers or names. But if they are fishing vessels that use trawl gear, regardless of the make and model names, they are all trawlers.

Very, very basic stuff Walt. You should know this given the impressive things you've accomplished in your life.

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Wifey B: Have you always enjoyed being demeaning and condescending to others or is that a recent thing with you?

Or is this your idea of humor and you're just pranking the board?

BandB said:

Wifey B: Have you always enjoyed being demeaning and condescending to others or is that a recent thing with you?

Or is this your idea of humor and you're just pranking the board?

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Post 182....it's been going on for awhile....

HAHAHA ....
I can see Marin "pranking" as in jumping up and down like a cat on all fours.
Yup he's been doing it for at least 7 and probably 8 years. I have been witness to most and no need to be offended. Call it "bantering". Just banter back. Or find something more meaningful to do.

BandB said:

Wifey B: Have you always enjoyed being demeaning and condescending to others or is that a recent thing with you?

Or is this your idea of humor and you're just pranking the board?

Click to expand...

People who actually know me, and I'm happy to say that does not include anyone on this forum, know that I say exactly what I mean. However you want to interpret that is of no concern to me.

As I said earlier I don't like revisionist history and I don't like the ignorant use of a language.

As it turned out...we went boating kind of on a whim. It was a Tuesday or something. I had taken the linens home and there was only ONE towel on the boat. I told the young ladies not to worry about laying on the pads...oil up...do whatever you want. But they were still trying to be considerate so they tried to fit all of themselves onto one towel.....

What were we talking about again????

Maybe we should rename the forum:

www.whatthehellkindaboatdoihave.com

My Android phone still calls it the Tawler Forum in the upper left corner.

Baker said:

As it turned out...we went boating kind of on a whim. It was a Tuesday or something. I had taken the linens home and there was only ONE towel on the boat. I told the young ladies not to worry about laying on the pads...oil up...do whatever you want. But they were still trying to be considerate so they tried to fit all of themselves onto one towel.....

What were we talking about again????

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Wifey B: Hope you made a point to keep them covered with suntan lotion. As Captain, is definitely your responsibility.

Well, depending on who they are....

Northern Spy said:

My Android phone still calls it the Tawler Forum in the upper left corner.

View attachment 41912

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That's why I joined, but very few other members have a mast.

I'm not so sure it is socially appropriate to use the word "flogged" anymore, as it may offend someone. I also understand that the use of the term "I like my coffee black" is derogatory, the proper descriptive now is "regular coffee or coffee with cream." The use of the word "master bedroom" in real estate sales to describe the...well...... the master bedroom is now very offensive. True story up here in the PNW. Also, to keep this post on track with the blog theme, "Fisherman" is now "Fishers" in the Washington State lexicon. Yes, Dynamic indeed..... I miss the cold war.

Probably time for a poll to decide if the term "Trawler" is acceptable and accurate or we now need to refer to it as the "T" word on the forum for fear of offending someone.

Ted

Ski in NC said:

A mid sized straight six makes a nice sound running at 1900. The B-motor would have to run at like 24-2500 to do the same. They don't sound happy there, but are ok. So I'm happy with my choice.
Big beast has been rock solid, too.

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Nice point - it's important to understand what cruising speed(s) you want, and choose accordingly.

I have had to cross the Salish Sea to get to my cruising grounds, so being on the plane (16kn+) and not just plowing, was needed. At the same time, a big engine should be economical under 9kn toodling along, yet be running far enough up into the power curve to get to proper heat and torque. A misfit either way results in a dirty engine or an undersized turbo scream. Give me a naturally aspirated big diesel any day. Lasts much longer too.

Another issue is trawlers in the 70's still meant trawlers, and having looked at fishboat conversions, I understood that real fishboats have very large holds for holding ice and fish, compared to "yachts" (remember them?) so I always had this mental issue that maybe I better pass on making fishboats into planers.

Mind you Barrie Farrell figured this seam out properly so I bought one of his fast 34' gillnetters, and did 18kn with one 210hp DD Green Leaker, no turbo shrieking and slobbering. Fish holds and all.

Sometimes even a blond squirrel finds a nut.

Ted,
No poll necessary or appropriate as we are just members and decisions like that are none of our business. If "they" wanted to change the name a simple + after the word trawler should take care of all or most of the non-trawlers.

hmason said:

Now I don't know if I own a trawler, a dependable diesel cruiser, if I have the right anchor, if my twin engines were a mistake and should have been a single, and if I'm duped by advertising. The only thing I'm sure of now is that I'm missing my damn shoes.

Howard

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Howard, they've got you where they want you.

Well kevin you did it again

Provided entertainment again, Well I've owned both and agree with you. And thank God when Hatteras described my boat they called a long range cruiser, and last time I checked Hatteras is in the US. I might have been duped into buying a one of those work boat wannabes built in the far east.