Sometimes big engines are an advantage

Marin said:

Unless a boat runs out of fuel, at which point fuel becomes very relevant.

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What this thread actually is, I'm afraid is mostly an extension of the "what is a trawler" thread. Many posts there but the real definition lies more in the posts on this thread. If your boat is not capable of gracefully doing more than 6.5 to 10 knots (depending on length) then you don't have a trawler. This question has been flopping about never really being answered. I've always tried to tie weight to the nose on the donkey but perhaps speed is actually a better yardstick. Of course limited speeds are just the result of weight's effect on speed but the results are that speed is a bit more tangible to most. Very few would argue that if a boat can sustain more than a knot or two above hull speed that it's not a trawler.

So Keith w his large, stiff, shallow, high powered boat capable of 15 knots dosn't have a trawler but obviously he does a lot of trawlering at sub-displacement speeds and clearly is "one of us". When Art came on the form asking if his boat was a trawler he clearly wanted to be a member of the club and nobody flopped the truth out so he could choke on it (like we should have) but kicked the can around the forum for a long time avoiding offending him and telling him the truth. He got it but there was nothing left of the can by that time and many more were on the forum as member of the clan and henceforth all have been welcome here. The only reminisce of the issue is that many w very fast boats w/o a hint of trawler in them have come out of the closet very slowly. GFC may be an example of that. His username was very common (to me) but I couldn't remember seeing his boat before. I've always liked him and now I like his boat too but there isn't a trawler bone in her that I can see.

It all makes little difference or none at all but as to defining a trawler having a clear look at one one end of the stick renders a great deal of clarity to the other end. So boats that can't go fast are most likely trawlers and those that can aren't. It's a choice. We all are free to buy whatever type. Going fast is fun and most would like to do it but seaworthyness, range, fuel economy, comfort and a number of other things must be sacrificed to some large (and small) degree to attain the speed desired. There's no right and wrong at all. Just a style that fits our needs and/or wants and of course that's directly connected to the ability to pay.

So w this thread I think there is a more clear notion of what a trawler is and it's essence is illuminated most clearly by it's speed ... or lack of speed. And I hope that those w/o trawlers stay or come forth from the sidelines and mingle w us that do. The record here will show that you will be welcome and your opinions embraced equally w all the rest. But I say this and express my opinion having no power to make it so.

Methinks there is a middle kingdom for coastal cruising, wherein you have a boat that you can force up to about 10-12 knots so that you don't have to wait for tide changes, or be endangered by currents with no options. For me a single engine over 220 HP does this for boats up to 40', especially if the boat is already on the cruising grounds.

The secret sauce for any finely fitted yacht, that instantly makes it the fastest of any, is a remote autopilot. You can fish, let your guest come down off the bridge after a few hours, and escape the tyranny of the wheel.

Read a magazine, and you're in Baltimore, if the water's flat. Mind you, autopilots on go-fast boats can end badly...

We usually run fast between destinations. Then slow down for a few days to savor the area.



Then slow down to near trawler speeds for sometimes a couple of weeks at a time. We love towing the dinghy, anchoring, and exploring.

Same with us. we cruise slower more often than fast. Cummins mechanic criticized me because my turbo wasn't discolored enough, said I babied the motor too much.

I don't have a trawler, but the subject matter is more often common to all boats rather than trawlers only. I guess I can go over to the Sea Ray forum and discuss underwater lights, or go over to the downeast forum and be evicted because my boat is not a real downeaster.

Don't go yonder Yonder!

Trawlers may not even be the majority's here. And most of the stuff we discuss is common to all except sailboaters and even them to a marked degree. I think it just means trawlering and trawlers is where we lean. We,ve all got seawater pumps. Batts, exhaust elbows, fuel usage ect ect. Oh I forgot anchors. What I'm hoping for is a flat line of respect for powerboats cruising slowly most or all the time.

OK jones .... now you're into naming non-trawlers that cruise. Coastal cruisers implies long distance cruising IMO. One could require a different kind of boat for day or local cruising. There's three different types of cruising boats. And after local cruising there's day boats where one seldom overnights .. or boats w no overnight accommodations. There's a pie slice for everybody. One could start w passagemakers and go through all the cruisers and end up at the day boats. Gasoline and OB boats would slide in there somewhere. Forget about water skiers. Many of these distinctions will be harder to call than coastal cruisers and trawlers. Wanna have a go at it?

BlueYonder said:

Same with us. we cruise slower more often than fast. Cummins mechanic criticized me because my turbo wasn't discolored enough, said I babied the motor too much.

I don't have a trawler, but the subject matter is more often common to all boats rather than trawlers only. I guess I can go over to the Sea Ray forum and discuss underwater lights, or go over to the downeast forum and be evicted because my boat is not a real downeaster.

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I think the Back Cove 37 is one of the best blends of boats. With the big single Cummins it has the choice of a good turn of speed. With thrusters and electronic controls handling around the dock is easy. That plus the fact that it is a dang fine looking boat. Much bang for the buck. It's Downeast enough for me.

ksanders said:

A prudent captain always keeps track of the weather, and plans for safe locations...regardless of the style of boat.

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That's the gold star statement in this whole thread

My wife and I sea kayaked from Kitimat on BC's north coast to Bella Bella on BC's central coast, starting in late October and finishing up in late December a number of years ago. There were many times we had to stay put for storms, and once had to wait out a hurricane force storm for 5 days as it built up then faded away.

Before long crossings or 10 mile stretches of rock walls, with only 8 hours of winter daylight, we had to choose wisely.

Me-thinks ones window of concern, weather-wise, expands greatly as the speed of ones vessel diminishes. Therefore, I have a hunch that faster boats may get "caught" more often than slower vessels.

Especially if 3rd parties are in the parties.

In a comfortable, fully self-contained Tollycraft tri cabin that is built tough and designed to be good at taking moderate to fairly rough seas… I simply hate being able to cruise 5.5 to 6 knots running only one of the twins at near 3 nmpg... or do 7 to 7.5 knots on twins at 2+/- nmpg… or plane at 16 to 17 knots on both engines for 1 nmpg... or top out at 21 to 22 knots at who-gives-a-shat nmpg - if need be, for any reason.

BTW – Hard chines for limited-roll and only 2’10” draft for gunk holing really bugs me too!

Powercats
Get a bit of weather behind them and they surf very well on low hp

I would argue that the only time large engines are at a disadvantage is on passagemaker style boats where you are crossing oceans and need all the fuel range you can get.

For coastal cruising which is along any coastline almost anywhere in the world larger engines give you choices.

Choices you do not have with smaller engines.

The only reminisce of the issue is that many w very fast boats w/o a hint of trawler in them have come out of the closet very slowly. GFC may be an example of that. His username was very common (to me) but I couldn't remember seeing his boat before. I've always liked him and now I like his boat too but there isn't a trawler bone in her that I can see.

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Thanks. Coming from you that's clearly a compliment and I appreciate it. You're right that there isn't a trawler bone in Beachcomber.

On our rivers (Columbia and Snake) the dams are spaced far enough apart (up to 75 miles between dams) and entry times spaced close enough that (3 hours apart in the summer months) trawlers have a tough time if running upstream. Spring time currents here run 3-6kts and I've seen 9kts on the Snake below Ice Harbor Lock.

We've made those long runs upstream between the dams and that's one area where you really do appreciate having the horsepower to be able to make time against the current.

You guys with trawlers who aren't faced with specific times to pass through locks are lucky. For us who do face it, it just means burning more fuel than normal.

But, hey, I've never seen a casket with a luggage rack on top so I know you can't take it with you.

Mike,
Thanks for the response and it was interesting about the river current. Always wondered about that. So I could run the river where the current was 3 knots or less. Food for thought but I'm not tak'in any long trips soon .. may get to QC Sound this year comming back in the fall.

How's the heat over there. No need to reply .. haha.

Kevin I see no argument on this. It's a choice. I have a FD boat for good reasons and you have planing boat assumabily for equally good reasons. I flew an ultralight and my friend flew a Beach Banonza.

If Kevin put trawl gear on his big Bayliner it doesn't matter what speed he goes, he's got a trawler.

Marin said:

If Kevin put trawl gear on his big Bayliner it doesn't matter what speed he goes, he's got a trawler.

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That IS correct!

Most important part to the word (meaning) of "Trawler" is in the gear and its use.... not the particular boat's hull or superstructure design.

Not too unlike the word (meaning) "Ferry". If a boat consistently transports people or items from one specific point to another it becomes a ferry. Otherwise the same boat could be fitted with and use trawl gear and it would then be a trawler.

Of course nearly any boat could also be fitted with items for human creature comforts conducive to rest and recreation.... then IMO it should be called a "Pleasure Cruiser". Such as 99.33% of every boat on TF.

Marin said:

Everybody talks about boats that are tough enough to take it, but I never hear anyone say what a jolly hoot it is to ride in the boat while it's "taking it."

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People do say it's a jolly hoot! The wetter, colder, the nastier the better for them. They are boating masochists. But if you want to find them, look on the sailboat forums.

tegdesign said:

The wetter, colder, the nastier the better for them...they are boating masochists.... if you want to find them, look on the sailboat forums.

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Or Facebook. A friend posted a selfie, taken while single handing his sailboat (had to be, he was taking a selfie ), in 40 knots+.

I have a Power Cruiser and are mainly on this forum for the great info and tips I get from it. And because most of you are a great bunch of guys compared to some other forums I have been on.

You can look at the weather and forecasts all you want but at times the inevitable can and will happened. I got caught in a 13' dingy when it was perfect weather and forecast and then suddenly changed as a squall went through. Only 20 minutes but I was in the middle of it and no one could of predicted it. It came from behind a hill so I didn't even see it coming until it hit.

Last month I was away in my cruiser but the forecast changed and got worse while away. No big deal in a 38' Cruiser but it was a slow uncomfortable ride back home at 6-8 knots, 35knt winds and 2.5m seas. I guess I could of come home 2 days earlier but hey, I was having too much fun

tegdesign said:

People do say it's a jolly hoot! The wetter, colder, the nastier the better for them. They are boating masochists. But if you want to find them, look on the sailboat forums.

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Very true.

And I'll admit, if it's just me or some friends that can "take it" as some mention, then I'm ok with it if we're caught out. It actually tends to bring back some rather fond memories.

And IMHO, it's those times, and the challenges they bring, that remind you that you're alive. As Jimmy Buffet once noted, they give us "the stories we can tell."

That said, as a former Coastie, my overall thought is.
BTDT, I'll pass if possible.

And finally.
Big, small, fast or slow.
CC to yacht.
Single, twin, sail or oars.
If it has a hull and it floats, I like it!

We have a great community here

Thanks.


OD

Boats sink in marinas, hit something or lack of proper maintainance. Where were all these disasters and what caused them?

Moonstruck said:

We usually run fast between destinations. Then slow down for a few days to savor the area.

Then slow down to near trawler speeds for sometimes a couple of weeks at a time. We love towing the dinghy, anchoring, and exploring.

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Looks like you're ready to pop someone with a left jab there mate!!


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At $5/gal my boat is a trawler.
At $2/gal it's a fast cruiser.
At $10/gal it's a dock queen.

Ski ..... Lot of truth in that.

biggusstickus,
Yup I've been try'in to sell that one for years but these guys still think they can outrun the weather. Kevin showed it can be done. But most of us know how often that happens. We spend 99% of our time in vehicles going 25 to 80mph so going 6 or 7 knots seems like there's something wrong or at best odd. Gotta be flexible.

Marin your copy sounds fishy to me.

Coastal cruising and working with the weather isn't rocket science.

At 6.3 knots, ths man knows his limitations.

At 15 knots a decent skipper has a quantum leap in options.

If someone doesn't think they can sidestep a bad line of thunderstorms...then they haven't had the weather reporting, boat or capability of doing it....it is sweet when you can.

Folks insinuate that outrunning bad weather is a uncommon thing, but in fact it is not. We outrun bad weather frequently. Not deadly bad weather, I'm a better captain than that, but uncomfortable weather, or better yet lets say unfavorable weather is easily avoided. For example we get a strong sea breeze in the late afternoon. This makes inbound docking much less fun. Going fast a bit to avoid that is an option.

Another advantage of large engines is the ability to smooth out the boats ride. In any kind of sea boats rock. It doesn't have to be a big sea at all to create significant rocking motion. Well, apply some power, and the boats stern pushes down in the water a bit. This greatly reduces the rocking motion.

Another use is getting across a wavy section of ocean quicker. At 8 knots my 35 mile crossing is 4 1/2 hours. At 15 knots the same crossing is 2 hrs 20 minutes.

Yet another use of power is actually getting somewhere by a certain time. I live four hours from the boat. After grocery shopping, etc, and prep time we are generally ready to leave the dock at around 4 pm. Our favorite cruising grounds are around 65 NM away, and dusk is at around 10 pm. Getting after it part of the way puts us setting anchor in time to take the dogs to shore for their last potty break during daylight hours.

So, while approx 75% of our engine hours are at displacement speeds, the 25% of the time we spend at a fast cruise sure comes in handy, for a variety of reasons.

Maybe trawler is more a personal choice than a style of boat. This is a true full displacement boat with a 9' draft, no one would mistake it for a trawler -


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I was running from offshore coming in to Charleston, SC. Had left from Daytona Beach Fla. About 20 miles from Charleston, I could see a squall line both visually and on radar. Lots of lightning. Line was closing on me. As it got close, I found a gap on the radar and also noted no lightning in that area. Aimed for the gap and powered up to 23kts. Lots of chop, but since storm was moving fast, seas didn't build that high. Wind howling!! Within a few minutes, I was on the other side and clear of most lightning.

I was glad for the speed then!!

I don't like being in lightning.

tegdesign said:

People do say it's a jolly hoot! The wetter, colder, the nastier the better for them. They are boating masochists. But if you want to find them, look on the sailboat forums.

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This is super hilarious. I have some friends that recently bought a trawler. I somewhat surprised me because they are "younger" and they were such hardcore sailboaters. I can still sense that guilt in them for being too comfortable on a powerboat. this is a text I sent to them!!!....: