Sometimes big engines are an advantage

We've been out since Tuesday. Had a great time. Played in Prince William Sound which requires a approx 35 NM open ocean crossing between protected areas.

The weather was great in protected waters but has been has been dicy outside, and didn't look great for our planned return trip on Sunday.

Woke up this morning and saw Gale Warning for today and not so fun seas for the next several days.


So, checked the bouys, and saw what appeared to be a small closing window of opportunity to get to our home waters, or be stuck, or go in seas that are not much fun.

Got underway annd cruised at 15-16 knots. Seas started to build towards the end but we made it quite comfortable all in all.

Sometimes big engines are an advantage. Running before the weather is one of those times.

Blasphemy!

Yeah....It's those times that the 15 knots or so can really be an asset, and I'd bet there's little regret (if any) about the extra fuel..

A true trawler cruiser would have made the run at 6 knots just for the experience

A true trawler is built to take bad weather and rough seas,, gotta be, they cant outrun it

The word to catch here is "Sometimes" .....

All the rest of the time you're stuck w heavier engines, excessively large shafts and props create drag and frictional losses for the ability to go fast once and awhile.

Give me a more robust craft w a small engine .. like a Willard.

manyboats said:

The word to catch here is "Sometimes" .....

All the rest of the time you're stuck w heavier engines, excessively large shafts and props create drag and frictional losses for the ability to go fast once and awhile.

Give me a more robust craft w a small engine .. like a Willard.

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Eric, why would I give you an underpowered Willard? You already have one....

I wouldn't have any idea about that.

Hiding under the chair dosn't become you Don so come on out and defend your friend.

Moonstruck kickin her skirt up at 25kts....cause she can

Oh Eric...

I could care less about fuel economy. Fuel is not even a consideration in the overall cost of boat ownership.

Now fuel range is...

And with the longest place I can find between fuel sources being Turtle Bay Baja to Cabo at something like 430NM and the second longest place being Yakutat to Cordova Alaska at something like 270NM I think we're in good shape.

Yes, there are times when big engines are not an advantage. Today was not one of them.

I am totally with Kevin on this one. While it's nice to have a boat that's tough enough to take whatever the weather and water can throw at it, the reality is that you have to ride in the damn thing while it's getting the crap beat out of it.

Everybody talks about boats that are tough enough to take it, but I never hear anyone say what a jolly hoot it is to ride in the boat while it's "taking it." Ever wonder why the interior of a Nordhavn is so "cut up" with relatively small compartments? (At least the ones I've been on.) It's so when you're slogging your way across the Pacific and the seas get big and nasty and you get thrown across a room, you don't get thrown very far.

Our PNW boat is an 8-knot boat and while it can "take" a reasonable amount, it's not a roughwater boat by any stretch of the imagination. And since it can barely outrun itself, if it's going to be nasty out on the Strait of Georgia, for instance, we simply won't go out there.

That boat notwithstanding, I'm a huge believer in the phrase "there's no such thing as too much power." In boats and in planes.

Unlike our PNW boat, our other cruising boat is, in fact, built to "take it." However...... its top speed is over 40 knots. It's a testiment to the "there's no such thing as too much power" philosophy. While we've not had much experience with it yet, it's fabulous to be able to come back to port well ahead of what's coming weather-wise and so not have the sh!t beat out of us while the boat is "taking it."

Yes, taken by itself, the fuel consumption of this thing would appear to be staggering. But as Kevin correctly says, fast boat or slow, given the overall cost of owning a boat the cost of fuel, while not so low as to be completely ignored, is not a factor in determining whether to own and use a boat or not.

And so it goes .... on and on as before.

Oliver,
Willy is actually not underpowered. She can do all that her hull will allow.

And Kevin you're right .. the big engines delivered the winning card .. that day.

I'm with Kevin. The extra fuel I burn by having the weight of large engines, shafts, props, is so minor I don't even consider it. I can cruise at hull speed around 9.5kts, or get up and let the cats purr at 22 kts when I want. Even when I'm just doing it for fun, not to outrun a storm.

Kevin, thank god you were not in a "trawler"..
Everybody knows true "trawlers" cannot out run bad weather because of the nets hanging off the back.
A great example of why you have the boat you do.
Grest post
Hollywood

GFC said:

I'm with Kevin. The extra fuel I burn by having the weight of large engines, shafts, props, is so minor I don't even consider it. I can cruise at hull speed around 9.5kts, or get up and let the cats purr at 22 kts when I want. Even when I'm just doing it for fun, not to outrun a storm.

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We just like being able to cruise at 20 knots and it does come in quite handy for us at times in having the need for shorter weather windows. But even if not for that we'd still like having the speed available. It turns a lot of overnight trips into daylight trips and turns two day trips into one day and we prefer more day cruising and less night cruising.

Not one way better than another, just different strokes for different folks.

"A true trawler is built to take bad weather and rough seas,, gotta be, they cant outrun it."

The 15-50K boat therefore has to plan ALL its cruises with a weather eye and the safe hole locations well planned in advance.

Because the risk of NOT being quick enough to go hide could be the loss of the vessel?

I guess that's what all the fancy electronic toys are for and why so many stay dockside ?

In my years of boating I don't recall any boat sinking from not being able to "take it" . So where is the benefit of this idea something marketed as a trawler is better in some mysterious way than something called a cruiser?

Moonstruck said:

I wouldn't have any idea about that.

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Ditto! ?

bayview said:

In my years of boating I don't recall any boat sinking from not being able to "take it" . So where is the benefit of this idea something marketed as a trawler is better in some mysterious way than something called a cruiser?

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Real quick, I can think of five boats that sunk over the last few years because the boat could not take it. Seven, since I just remembered two more.

Later,
Dan

manyboats said:

Hiding under the chair dosn't become you Don so come on out and defend your friend.

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OK Eric, I'm out. You guys catch me if you can.

FF said:

"A true trawler is built to take bad weather and rough seas,, gotta be, they cant outrun it."

The 15-50K boat therefore has to plan ALL its cruises with a weather eye and the safe hole locations well planned in advance.

Because the risk of NOT being quick enough to go hide could be the loss of the vessel?

I guess that's what all the fancy electronic toys are for and why so many stay dockside ?

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A prudent captain always keeps track of the weather, and plans for safe locations...regardless of the style of boat.

I will admit that there are more capable heavy weather boats than my SD design. I will also admit (happpily) that there are more capable heavy weather captains than I.

But I will submit FF that when the weather gets rough, the heavy weather boats, along with their capable captains are sitting right next to me at the dock my friend....

Thats because heavy weather is NO FUN in ANY BOAT.

I would much prefer to be sitting at the dock relaxing then getting my ass kicked by mother nature.

This is the 47' Concorde I moved to Detroit last year, draft 5.5' beam 16' and powered by twin 350 hp 8v71 DD. Going down Lake Huron the forecast was 2' to 3' the reality was at least twice that, we were dipping the pulpit occasionally. No problem with the boat taking it, but after about 8 hours it was very uncomfortable always holding on to be able to keep your feet under you. After that trip I agree with Ksanders I would want the hp to outrun that type of condition if possible. When we came thru the mackinaw straights and headed south we didn't have that option with 20 - 25 kts wind out of the south, we were taking the waves on our port bow. I changed our destination for the day to a closer protected anchorage. And we lost 2 more days of travel on Lake Huron because of similar or worse conditions with gust up to 35 kts. I pretty sure a true FD trawler would not of been anymore comfortable and our boats can really take adverse conditions much worse than the majority of us and our crews, some may enjoy "The Perfect Storm" type of boating but not me and certainly not after the 1st couple of hours.


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manyboats said:

And so it goes .... on and on as before.

Oliver,
Willy is actually not underpowered. She can do all that her hull will allow.

And Kevin you're right .. the big engines delivered the winning card .. that day.

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Ok, Eric.

The BIG difference in this discussion is not the "dont go" factor, but the "when caught" factor. I've been caught a few times. My 31 foot Ameracat can handle a lot, I have to slow down to 25 knots in close 4 footers. It does 3 footers, if they're close together, at 40 knots. I dont generally go out in stuff like that unless I have paying customers that say "lets go, we can take it". Funny thing is, usually they can !! My 48 sporty does pretty good in 4 to 5s unless they're on the beam. If I have a good deckhand my customers can fish all day. I work all day driving the boat. Not so much fun. My 51 Krogen trawler (paravanes handles it all easily. I've been caught out in it a few times and while not fun to do, if you point the bow into it and hold position it takes 10 to 15s pretty good. Even with a short period blowing into the Mississippi sound behind a big storm. That time faster would not have helped. A dockmaster at Gulfport that could read a chart would have.

It is interesting that on a TRAWLER FORUM, so much time and bandwidth is spent extolling the virtues of boats other than trawlers.

kulas44 said:

It is interesting that on a TRAWLER FORUM, so much time and bandwidth is spent extolling the virtues of boats other than trawlers.

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Yup. Isn't it nice that so many "birds of different feathers" can come together and have friendly discussions about a wide variety of topics, and be kind to each other whilst doing it. Just think how boring TF would be if we only owned one type of boat.

Ain't life just grand!

GFC, you are correct, it is. It would be like that "other" forum

I'm a slow kind of guy most of the time but last week I was on a 46 Post from Stuart to St. Augustine. 10 hours at 20 plus knots burning 31 GPH. It would have taken Hobo almost 30 hours to cover that distance. I was glad I wasn't paying the fuel bill.

But the guy who was paying the fuel bill didn't mind. It's all relative to what's important to you. For us, we don't even figure fuel cost into the ownershp costs of our boats. It's something we have to pay and if we were worried about it then we shouldn't be boating. So however much fuel our boats burn is what they burn and it's irrelevant to what we want out of boating. Unless a boat runs out of fuel, at which point fuel becomes very relevant.