Heading for the Keys

Pack Mule said:

Just curious . Would a sail rig have made the ride smoother ?

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I'm no expert, but yes I'm sure it would have helped. The wind was blowing about 15-20mph when we had our rough days, and it was on the beam.

I got a quote to install a 40' mast with a full roller sail package (and chain plates and all other rigging) from the Island Packet yard but they wanted $60k. I kind of gulped at that price but maybe that's the going rate.

I would think you could get it done for 1/2 that .

What's wrong w a zig zag course.
The extra running time didn't match other plans?
The only time I have a problem w beam seas is when I'm pressed for time and to put myself in that position is kinda dumb.
Most of the time even a course change of less than 30 degrees solves the problem.

Pack Mule said:

I would think you could get it done for 1/2 that .

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Where would one get this done?

Boat is in Palmetto Florida right now.

manyboats said:

What's wrong w a zig zag course.
The extra running time didn't match other plans?
The only time I have a problem w beam seas is when I'm pressed for time and to put myself in that position is kinda dumb.
Most of the time even a course change of less than 30 degrees solves the problem.

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I did zig to get the waves off the beam the first day, but the second and third days I think I had long runs and would have run out of daylight.

Again, a rookie planning mistake
.
With more experience I think it will get easier to handle.

Instead of Passages South, I'd suggest Bruce Van Sant's "Tricks of the Trades" -- which speaks to running your power boat as if she were a sail. Those on power boats tend to go from point A to B, whereas tacking is often a far more comfortable ride.

His Tricks book (the information within the pages) is the same as that found in Gent's Guide. As a matter of fact, I've got an old copy of Gents (4th Edition; #10 just came out last year) -- I prefer Tricks of the Trades as it doesn't have the specifics on island hopping. It's easier to read.

If you'd like Gent's #4, I'll be happy to send it to you. I have 10th and it (#4) is a spare sitting on my shelf. Side Note: Were I to do it again, I'd buy the 9th edition as it's spiral bound and lays flat.

And work on your lady in short hops, marina to resort marina. There's not much a gal would dislike about a marina with a swimming pool, bar and lounge plus a restaurant. And I know few men who object to a lounge, entertainment, with delicious food served at the tables by waiters and waitresses.

And the kids will find a video room too or things to occupy them out by the pool.

You're ot the first who has had optimistic plans go awry. You can fix it I hope. The IP's (sailboats at least) are wonderful. Friends owned Kairos and theirs was truly a treat. I'm sure yours is likewise as nice inside, and out.

Good luck with your lady.

I have the gents guide but need to get Tricks of the Trade book it sounds like.

And I always need luck with the ladies. They are complicated.

cardude01 said:

Where would one get this done?

Boat is in Palmetto Florida right now.

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Hmm you got me there . I don't know but that price sounded high .

If you have Gents' the information in Tricks is in it. It's just scattered throughout. I prefer it in one volume with chapters for each topic. That's why I have it. Don't buy the First Edition/First Printing as it has a page that is backwards. They fixed that in the second printing I imagine.

manyboats said:

What's wrong w a zigzag course. ...Most of the time even a course change of less than 30 degrees solves the problem.

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Called tacking downwind in sailing, but a trawler has no gibe issues.

Dude you did ok, just sell the rest of the family on the fact that it was a learning experience for everyone. Everyone got home safe, and knows what they like and they don't like. Add up all the things you all like and do more of that. Add up all the things you all don't like and do less of those. None of us came into this experienced and expert, and any one on here who says or thinks they know it all is untruthful. I admire your ability to be honest with yourself and learn as much as you can from this initial experience.

quote:
2. Had to replace the alternator belt on that long crossing. Charge light came on about half way. Hated to turn engine off but did and found newly installed (by a "pro") alt belt was too long I guess and flopping around. Was tightened all it would go. Had a spare that was correct length and got it on pretty quickly-- luckily it was very calm.

I keep some leather link belt onboard . It comes in a roll and you can make a belt the length you want . It's handy especially if one of the belts behind other belts breaks . You can install it without having to take off the other belts .

There are several boatyards on Salt Creek in St Pete that could rig your boat. Sailors Wharf probably the best suited. If you're looking for a steadying sail rig and not to turn your boat into a motor sailor a much smaller rig than 40 ft will do the job. You'll have to mess around with some drawings to determine if it will "look" right.

Steadying sail like on traditional trawlers, will keep you slightly heeled with much less rocking

cardude01 said:

Where would one get this done?

Boat is in Palmetto Florida right now.

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Pretty much a steadying sail is what I would be looking for, but the thought of a "get home" sail has always intrigued me.

The less complex the better IMO, and a steppable mast would seem to be a good idea.

I often wonder if a boomless sail like Mark has on his Coot along with a jib would function as both a steadying sail and a get home rig.

Thanks for the rec on Sailor's Wharf. I will give them a call. Maybe they will go to Palmetto and give me some ideas. I'm back in Texas now.

Here are some drawings that were done with a 30' and a 40' mast.

IMO you should not change your boat. Change you cruising pattern. As often said a schedule is the worst thing one can have on a boat. Spend extra time wherever you wind up waiting for favorable weather. New cruisers often plan to go too far too fast. You bought a trawler with the intention of going slow.


Every new boater I have ever met had overly ambitios trips planned. For some reason the far away place is viewed as more attractive than the closer place. The secret of boat cruising is that because you donmt have a car you are forced to spend your time in walkable distance exploring and getting to know things you would miss in a car. In a car you just zip past.


Distant locations can indeed be the goal but they are best achieved by small hops in good weather. As an example we spent five weeks exploring from St. Pete through the keys to Lauderdale and back. we stayed as long as we enjoyed where we were and never left in unsettled weather.

jwnall said:

Don't beat yourself up too much. A lot of very experienced boaters make that same mistake.

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Agree. Very useful to have done an after-action analysis in the first place. Next most useful is to learn from that.

Probably also useful to share that -- or do a joint after-action -- with family and crew -- to see if you have general agreement, to see if you've missed anything, and to see if your thoughts on future mitigation are generally acceptable.

Bayview said don't modify the boat; I agree. Save that for later, should it really become necessary. In the meantime, modify your behavior. That's cheap.

-Chris

"Bayview said don't modify the boat; I agree. Save that for later, should it really become necessary. In the meantime, modify your behavior. That's cheap. "


+1

janice142 said:

If you have Gents' the information in Tricks is in it. It's just scattered throughout. I prefer it in one volume with chapters for each topic. That's why I have it. Don't buy the First Edition/First Printing as it has a page that is backwards. They fixed that in the second printing I imagine.

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Thanks, Janice. I didn't know about the Tricks book. My Gents book is from my sailing days, and, as you say, is really more about island hopping. But scattered throughout are nuggets of pure gold, so if they have been pulled together that is nice to know.

Those drawings show the boom way too high in my opinion, no reason for more than a foot clearance from the house roof. And yes, the cut of the Main can be made so it can be flown boomless. Also looks like a boomed self tending jib, no at all necessary considering that for steading you don't need a jib, and would only use it as emergency get home.
If you maintain your engine and give it clean airless fuel that jib will never come out of the bag.

Personally I think you're making this far to complicated to fast.
Slow way down and live with the boat at least a year before you make a decision like this. My bet is a year from now you won't need or want it.
As to the "get home" you're a coastal guy. That's what a towing service is for.

Dude, from Fort Myers north you have some of the best cruising grounds. Marina Jacks at Sarasota should please the kids. Venice and Boca Grande will have something for all. Southseas and TweenWaters on Capiiva have it all---resort, beach, restaurants, and golf. Cabbage Key is a funky stop. Ft. Myers Beach is great with a mooring field too. The area is all pretty, protected water, and the distances are short. I forgot to mention Cayo Costa anchorage with its unbroken 7 miles of pristine beach. One of very favorite cruising areas. One of the reasons for this is that it is so easy. You have run the length of it. Now, slow down and savor it.

Keep bridges in mind when you are thinking about adding a mast. There's a whole bunch of them out there!

Steve said:

Keep bridges in mind when you are thinking about adding a mast. There's a whole bunch of them out there!

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This is so true. Plus it screws up my covered slip idea.

I'm just kicking around ideas. Idle mind syndrome...

mbevins said:

Personally I think you're making this far to complicated to fast.
Slow way down and live with the boat at least a year before you make a decision like this. My bet is a year from now you won't need or want it.
As to the "get home" you're a coastal guy. That's what a towing service is for.

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Much wisdom here from mbevins. Maybe ask those with steadying sails how well they work and how often they use them. I see plenty of masts and very rarely a sail.

Mainships came with masts, they couldn't carry a sail but held up the steaming light nicely. I took it off, didn't like staring at it while running the boat and it fouled the foredeck and windshield eyebrow for lounging.

cardude01 said:

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I got a quote to install a 40' mast with a full roller sail package (and chain plates and all other rigging) from the Island Packet yard but they wanted $60k. I kind of gulped at that price but maybe that's the going rate.

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IMHO you would not get that much from it. Not to speak of the problem with bridges that others have mentioned. A sailboat has both a sail and a deep keel, and they work in tandem to steady the boat in seas which are a bit nasty. I do not think that a sail by itself would do what you want. I could be wrong, of course, and if so others will correct me.

The best advice is from those who have said just chalk it up to experience and next time wait for weather.

When Cardude was on his way back solo, I was nearly as depressed as he was about the wife and kids driving back from KW. I think this could happen to almost anyone on their maiden family voyage. It convinces me all the more how important "planning" is and how unimportant "schedule" should be. This is such a good boat the way it is right now that I have to join Bayview's camp on modifying the plan and not the boat.

Boating,cruising should have NO shelule as miles and seas change and that well planned trip goes to hell.

cardude01 said:

Here are some drawings that were done with a 30' and a 40' mast.

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View attachment 41489

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Make a modification like that and plan on sitting waiting on bridges on the ICW to open often. I agree with the previous statement, change your cruising habits, not your boat style.

Just my $.02