Extractor tube broke off in oil pan!

Just my luck... only me... After a full day of boating, I decided to change the oil and filter. As I always do, I inserted the extractor hose in the dip stick tube and began pumping. Perhaps I should have a waited a little longer for the engine to cool a bit because the oil and plastic tube were quite hot (the tube became soft). Well, I removed the tube and noticed a section perhaps 8" or so was missing! Yikes! I am guessing the plastic tube, which became soft with heat, some how tore off when I adjusted the hose.

So, now I have a section of small plastic hose stuck in my oil pan. I have a couple of options:

1) Take the boat immedaitely to the yard (hope the pick-up screen doesn't get blocked), remove the engine, and pull the pan.

2) Do nothing and hope the pick-up screen does not become blocked with bits and pieces of degrading hose. I could drop the pan next time I remove/service the engine (not until at least next year).

My gut is telling me all will be okay unless the hose begins to start breaking apart and clogs the pickup screen. From now on though, NO MORE TUBES DOWN THE DIP STICK TUBE. I will be fitting a hose OVER the extraction tube at the oil pan.

Try this:


1. Many dipstick tubes are simply press fitted into the block. Grab it with pliers at the base and see if you can't rotate it a bit, then pull it off to get to the plastic tube.


2. Take a length of stiff wire, like monel anchor seizing wire. Bend a tiny hook in the end, JUST small enough to poke it down the dip stick tube and inside the plastic tube. Push it down to the bottom and wiggle it up and down so it catches on the end. Then slowly pull it out.


3. Another approach is to hook up your oil extraction pump but use a piece of tubing that will slip over the dipstick tube, not inside. Pump fast and see if that doesn't bring up the tube inside.


If none of those work or other clever ideas, I am afraid that you will have to pull the pan. I wouldn't leave a piece of plastic in the pan that could melt and gum up the intake screen.


David

Vashon that's really terrible!
At least I think it is as you do. Perhaps you should tell us and as many people as you can the brand on that extractor. I use them quite a bit and for over 10 years and haven't noticed any wreaking of the tubes.

I thought about that extracting my coolant after only about two minutes of cool down. However I hook the white tube to a fuel hose that's connected to a little ball valve on the lower part of the block .... the coolant drain port. My engine on the boat has a hose connected to the oil drain and that's connected to a hand pump higher up. But I'm slightly afraid of that. I could loose all my lube oil. And it's so tight down there I don't know if I could change the dang thing.

But in your case either;

A. The tube was flawed. Probably bent several times in the same place.
B. The tube was flawed in manufacture.
C. The tube was made of plastic not heat resistant enough.
D. There is something in the dip stick tube like a sharp edge.
E. Your oil could have become unusually hot.

From your description it sounds like poor plastic but it's hard to imagine anyone making such a product that wouldn't stand the heat. After all it's common knowledge how hot an engine gets and also it's oil. Oil can get 250 degrees and even hotter. You might try heating oil to 250 and putting the remaining hose in the oil to see if it deforms in any way. Document it perhaps and if the product is faulty you may have a very valid claim. Pulling the engine and dropping the pan is not an inexpensive operation.

The dipstick tube "probably" goes to the bottom of the pan, otherwise an external fitting couldnt remove much oil. If so your piece of tubing is in the DS tube. A tapered barb extractor should work. If you can insert the dipstick, pan removal is your only option, "probably again" the plastic is in the pan. I'd just run it.

Thanks for everyone's input and suggestions. The extraction pump is from West Marine. I've had issues with the hose getting stuck before but this time it must have been severed by something sharp. I like the idea of removing the dip stick tube and seeing if I can't access to the hose.

The tube was defintiely becoming soft with heat and must have caught something sharp in the pan and broke. I could definitelty see signs of tearing at the end. No problems with my engine or temperature, so the problem must be the hose. Fortunately, my engine is small and it is not a huge undertaking to have it pulled.

Even if it wil be okay for a year, the thought of a small section of tubing being stuck in my pan will drive me crazy. I'll be staring at the pressure gauge constantly!

I'm going to call the yard and get their input, which will probably be "bring her in".

why me????

Drain your oil out of the bottom of the pan, if you can, leave the plug out and try sucking the tube out of the tube with a shop vac. Reduce down the shop vac hose end if need be.

Its possible that your extractor tube was that much longer than your DS tube and slid out and under the DS tube, kinked, and was detatched upon removal. If so it wont be in the DS tube.

kulas44 said:

Its possible that your extractor tube was that much longer than your DS tube and slid out and under the DS tube, kinked, and was detatched upon removal. If so it wont be in the DS tube.

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Yes, that is probably what happened. It is definitely down in the pan some where.

A borescope camera might help you locate it in the pan and devise a feasible plan for retrieval. This one costs about $70 and works with your smartphone. There may be better units out there, though.

Vividia Wi-Fi Wireless Waterproof Flexible Inspection Camera Borescope Endoscope for iPhone/iPad/Android: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Personally, I wouldnt worry. It wont turn to mush or otherwise deteriate. Even if it gets spun up by the crank (not gonna happen) and ground up the filter will get it. On the old chevy small blocks the plastic peice on the distributor to oil pump connection routinely fell off on distributor removal. Same with Ford small blocks, except on Fords we sometimes lost the drive rod into the pan. NEVER EVER heard of a problem because of it.

If you can get to the drain plug, take it out and have it drilled and tapped for a barbed hose fitting. Or have a barbed hose fitting silver soldered to it. Worked like a charm on our old blow boat.

I'm now think'in kulas44 is probably right.
The engine may even have a sheet metal panel that would keep oil from sloshing into the crank. Not likely though. If it did that would probably or certianly keep the plastic tube end from getting at the crankshaft.
The only way it can cause trouble is to get pulled up by the crank but even then what can happen? I really doubt that could happen too. Do you have a pressure switch that would shut down the engine if oil pressure is lost?

Or if ya pull it you probably could save some money pulling hoses and wires off beforehand. Then it would be on you to remember how it all hooked up.

Do you have a 3 cylinder engine?

BobH said:

If you can get to the drain plug, take it out and have it drilled and tapped for a barbed hose fitting. Or have a barbed hose fitting silver soldered to it. Worked like a charm on our old blow boat.

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If you can get to the drain plug then you can flush it out .

Forgetaboutit, the screen in the sump will stop it from plugging the oil pickup.

Find it in a decade when you overhaul the engine.

Take a section of the tube and submerge it in 250F oil and let it sit. If it does not melt away, it will do no harm in the engine. If it melts, it could plug the screen on the pump pickup. Can't imagine it would melt at that low of a temp, but who knows unless you test it.

I'm with FF here, 250^ is just a bit above water boiling and plastic is molded a whole lot higher then that, so melting is unlikely. Screens are on the pick up for a reason, this is the reason.

Will the dipstick still fit in the tube? If yes then forget about it and move on.

I have never seen a dipstick tube that went all the way to the oil level. Most I've seen stop just inside the block.

FF said:

Forgetaboutit, the screen in the sump will stop it from plugging the oil pickup.

Find it in a decade when you overhaul the engine.

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+1

Capt.Bill11 said:

Drain your oil out of the bottom of the pan, if you can, leave the plug out and try sucking the tube out of the tube with a shop vac. Reduce down the shop vac hose end if need be.

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Sounds like a good idea. That or drop the pan. You can sometimes do this in place since you only need to drop it a couple of inches. Replace the gasket and bolt back up. This would also be a good time to add a drain hose at the bottom of the pan maybe.

Thanks everyone! I spoke with my seasoned mechanic and, like others suggested on this thread, I was basically told not to worry about it at all. In the words of FF, I will "Forgetaboutit". It will come out if my oil pan gasket needs replacing or the engine requires an overhaul several years down the road. As advised by several members, I heated the tube until it melted into goo, which took far, far, far more heat than my oil will ever produce. The oil pan plug at the bottom of the pan is simply not accessible--no room what-so-ever.

I feel better now but can't help be a little annoyed. I will still change my oil changing habits and will use the oil pick-up tube at the pan (fitting the pump hose around the tube to form a seal) rather than into the dip stick tube. No more sticking plastic hoses down the dipstick tube for me!

I really do appreciate everyone's input and thoughts. Thank you!

Vashon_Trawler said:

Thanks everyone! I spoke with my seasoned mechanic and, like others suggested on this thread, I was basically told not to worry about it at all. In the words of FF, I will "Forgetaboutit". It will come out if my oil pan gasket needs replacing or the engine requires an overhaul several years down the road. As advised by several members, I heated the tube until it melted into goo, which took far, far, far more heat than my oil will ever produce. The oil pan plug at the bottom of the pan is simply not accessible--no room what-so-ever.

I feel better now but can't help be a little annoyed. I will still change my oil changing habits and will use the oil pick-up tube at the pan (fitting the pump hose around the tube to form a seal) rather than into the dip stick tube. No more sticking plastic hoses down the dipstick tube for me!

I really do appreciate everyone's input and thoughts. Thank you!

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I doubt you will get much oil out that way as I doubt the tube goes to the bottom of the pan. Before I installed an oil change kit I used to pump it out through the dipstick tube, but I had a piece of copper tubing that the pump hose attached to. The copper tubing is what entered the dipstick tube. It worked great.

Most boat engine dipstick tubes go all the way to the bottom of the oil pan, or almost. How else would you be able to hook a hose to it and suck out the oil ?

kulas44 said:

Most boat engine dipstick tubes go all the way to the bottom of the oil pan, or almost. How else would you be able to hook a hose to it and suck out the oil ?

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You don't normally hook a hose to the dipstick tube. You normally insert a hose inside the dipstick tube and slide it down to the bottom of the pan. It would not make sense for the DS tube to go to the bottom of the pan. If it did you probably would not get an accurate reading on the dipstick.

It would be pretty easy to see how long the DS tube is. Just take a small piece of copper wire and put a small bend on the end of it. Slide it down the tube and move it around until you find the bottom of the tube. Hold your finger on the wire and pull it back out. Measure it and then measure the DS tube. That will tell you if the tube extends into the pan. My guess would be one in a thousand would get near the bottom of the pan. The other 999 will stop at the block.

For years we have sucked the oil out of GM 454s using the dipstick tube with a hose clamped over the top of it.


If you don't get all the oil out....BIG DEAL.....we even leave some in the oil cooler....


The company I work for gets as many hours out of a gas engine as some here get out of their diesels because mothering, babying and low use hurts some engines way more than regular but less than perfect oil changes.

Some need to get a grip here.....

I actually have a second tube on my Volvo MD2030, which is secured to the bottom of the pan where the drain bolt is located. It is hard to explain, but the tube goes from the bottom of the pan and to the side of the engine. It is meant for oil extraction. The tube is narrower than the dip stick tube, which is why I didn't originally stick the hose down that (couldn't fit). It has a flared end which is normally capped with a rubber stopper but can be used to attach a hose from an extractor.

I guess I've owned about 10 of the "1 in a 1000" engines with dipstick tubes designed for oil extraction. Imagine the odds . Come to think of it, I've NEVER seen a Detroit Diesel in a boat that was not like that. All of the Mercruiser inboards I've changed oil in were like that. Only recently has the "hose down the DS tube" became THE way to do it, mostly due to the proliferance of 4 stroke outboards, where that is the prefered way of doing it.

I have a pair of Perkins Prima diesels in my shop that have there own little hand pump on the side of the oil pan just for changing oil. Thats the only endearing feature of that particular engine. The engines are dissassembled and in boxes if anyone needs parts. I have thought about adapting the hand pumps on to a generator oil pan, that would be real handy.

:You don't normally hook a hose to the dipstick tube. You normally insert a hose inside the dipstick tube and slide it down to the bottom of the pan. It would not make sense for the DS tube to go to the bottom of the pan. If it did you probably would not get an accurate reading on the dipstick."

This is probably true for car or lawn implement transplants , but not for marine or industrial based engines..

Our 6-71 has a 1/2 inch tube that with a rotary pump can get the oil (6 gallons) in a couple of min.

Cars . pick up trucks and the rest are normally drained with pulling a plug.

Glad it all worked out ok for ya! Thanks for keeping us posted!

FF said:

:You don't normally hook a hose to the dipstick tube. You normally insert a hose inside the dipstick tube and slide it down to the bottom of the pan. It would not make sense for the DS tube to go to the bottom of the pan. If it did you probably would not get an accurate reading on the dipstick."

This is probably true for car or lawn implement transplants , but not for marine or industrial based engines..

Our 6-71 has a 1/2 inch tube that with a rotary pump can get the oil (6 gallons) in a couple of min.

Cars . pick up trucks and the rest are normally drained with pulling a plug.

Click to expand...

I can see where some engine manufacturers would be thoughtful enough to design this feature in but I would not assume it to be so. We have an FL120 and although I am not at the boat right now to check it, a quick check of the manual shows that the tube stops at the oil pan. If you hooked a suction hose to the outside of the tube all you would get is air. I used to stick a hose down the dipstick to change the oil. After I installed an oil change kit to the drainplug from AD I was able to get almost another full qurat of oil out.

Some don't think it is a problem leaving a quart of oil. Personally the reason I change the oil is because I want new oil in the engine. If I did not have a choice but to leave a quart that would be one thing, but for $23 for a kit I did have a choice and I choose to change all 12 quarts.

Vashon Trawler says he has a sperate tube that goes to the bottom of the pan and is designed for changing the oil so I doubt (I could be wrong) that his dipstick tube goes to the bottom of the pan, but as I said before easy to verify.