Interesting. I did too, and I haven't seen the ad, only read the description in this thread. I'm surprised an ad agency would be that insensitive in this day and age and that a client would be dumb enough to go along with the idea. That kind of "little lady" approach was popular in the 50s (see RTF's earlier photo) but it's insulting today.
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Interesting. I did too, and I haven't seen the ad, only read the description in this thread. I'm surprised an ad agency would be that insensitive in this day and age and that a client would be dumb enough to go along with the idea. That kind of "little lady" approach was popular in the 50s (see RTF's earlier photo) but it's insulting today.
markpierce
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Don't know about you, but my woman is pushing for more overnight(s) cruises.
Wifey B: Well, I'm sure you would guess how I feel about that as a term. Now, apparently some women like it. I don't like labels in general though. I fought that in education as I got so furious when I was going to make a presentation and saw they'd printed up an agenda and put Dr. in front of my name. I get squeamish thinking about it. Everyone who works for us calls us by our first names too and my hubby insisted on that when he worked for a major company. Fortunately that culture was there when he arrived.
Still we both know our way isn't normal or typical. And you can call your wife anything you and she agree to. Just don't call me "Admiral." First time, I'll ask you not to politely.
eyschulman
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Has anybody else noticed that automobile sales pitch and design has also become aware of the female input into car buying decisions either with couples or as independent buyers. Maybe some one just realized a very large portion of wealth in the US is controlled by woman and modern women are very proactive when it comes to family decision making.
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
I just went to the KK site.
They have a small series of testimonials called sheworthy news. They are written by the female half of cruising couples.
Personally I did not find it offensive at all, quite the opposite actually. Every cruising couple is 50% female. They seem to be taking the females point of view seriously, and engaging them as the real part of the decision making process they have always been.
I think its not only a good marketing strategy, its good business as well.
They have a small series of testimonials called sheworthy news. They are written by the female half of cruising couples.
Personally I did not find it offensive at all, quite the opposite actually. Every cruising couple is 50% female. They seem to be taking the females point of view seriously, and engaging them as the real part of the decision making process they have always been.
I think its not only a good marketing strategy, its good business as well.
Well, not all salesmen are as enlightened. My wife always dreamed of a Porsche so we went to the Fort Lauderdale dealer to buy one. Every question she'd ask, the salesman would answer to me, never speaking directly to her. He was also dancing around questions. I did politely tell him to speak to her, not me, as she was the customer. He didn't change. Finally he asked me, "what do we have to do to get you in one today?" I turned and said, "That's impossible as I have zero interest in owning one and since you refuse to talk to the actual customer, we'll be leaving now." Off we walked. We drove to Tampa and drove her new car home from there. Now I should point out that the dealer representing Porsche locally at that time no longer was six months later.
A couple of times auto manufacturers have gone so overboard catering to females however that it's backfired and made young men hesitant to buy that model based on fears of it being considered a girl's car and them being teased. 66% of Miata owners have been female.
I didn't find the fact that the ad was aimed at women to be offensive, I found the wording to be demeaning. I'm n the marketing environment I work in if a writer proposed that style and wording to a customer they would be-- and have been-- fired.
O C Diver
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Must say I really don't get this. My wife is a full professor and for the last 4 years a university dean. The titles reflect decades of hard work, more that a hundred publications, sitting on accreditation boards, and being subject to a fair amount of peer review. For her students to refer to her as teacher / professor, being on the same par as a graduate student teachering assistant, dismisses all of her accomplishments.
I can certainly understand where most women might bristle and being referred to as the admiral as it's not used in a serious way. Wonder how many of us have actually addressed our wife as admiral as opposed to referring to her as the admiral?
Ted
NA or NC no problem. NB very tight. I'm 6'5" with shoes. 36" inseam.
Actually wife has more of a fit issue than me, with seat belts and steering wheel. Must have adjustable wheel.
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. OC. "...addressed our wife as admiral as opposed to referring to her as the admiral?" Addressed only. She knows I refer to her as the Admiral and doesn't seem to mind although, she IS a saint, being that she's put up with me for 40+ years. On a professional level she does prefer to be addressed as Dr. in "business" dealings and would never accept being referred to as "the little woman" OR "the wife". Don't ask me how I know...
Mr. OC. "...addressed our wife as admiral as opposed to referring to her as the admiral?" Addressed only. She knows I refer to her as the Admiral and doesn't seem to mind although, she IS a saint, being that she's put up with me for 40+ years. On a professional level she does prefer to be addressed as Dr. in "business" dealings and would never accept being referred to as "the little woman" OR "the wife". Don't ask me how I know...
ranger58sb
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Heh... several in our owners club have those, or the very similar 35, 37, or 43 versions. And these folks use their boats a lot; they're not dock queens. They actually have some "technical" attractions -- very easy bow access, for example -- but I suspect most who have those appreciate the amount of space, both inside and out. An exaggerated statement just to illustrate might be that one of those 39MYs possibly has 2½ times more "usable" inside and outside space than a typical 40' trawler.
("Usable" being a flexible word, but generally I mean places where you could party, sit and read a book, sleep, cook, etc.) IOW, they're huge inside, and then there's the sundeck (party deck) and flying bridge.
The hulls often seem to be the same hulls used on the counterpart Convertible and Sport Bridge line-ups, seem to be as fit for purpose as other makes/models.
I don't care much for the looks either -- a high-top basketball shoe comes to mind -- but then I think they looks about the same as many modern Italian or British boats, and besides, I don't really get a vote in what other people like or don't like.
-Chris
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ranger58sb
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I notice quite often these days, car ads are more focused on the sound system, internet connectivity, etc. Sometimes I wonder if these same cars actually have engines, tires, brakes, etc.
-Chris
brian eiland
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good LISTENing
Many of the 'sales people' I came in contact with where NOT good listeners.
In fact that same thing might be said of many of today's politicians.
And as I once told the new owners of the Stiletto sailing catamaran company years ago, as you are trying to sell your product, LISTEN to any objections that are brought up (male or female), such that you might make some changes to your product to more fully cover the market.
Many of the 'sales people' I came in contact with where NOT good listeners.
In fact that same thing might be said of many of today's politicians.
Wifey B: To that point I did communicate to KK my feelings regarding the terminology, "Sheworthy."
As to their Sheworthy news my hubby wanted to know if there was anything in there he shouldn't be allowed to read. They are simply boating stories and the "Sheworthy" title makes zero sense. Sheworthy I thought maybe like Cosmopolitan or something, maybe an article on "Five ways for more orgasms on a boat." But they were just short blogs.
ranger58sb
Guru
Umm... without intending to go much further astray... I'd think that'd make good "Heworthy" reading, too.
-Chris
Umm... without intending to go much further astray... I'd think that'd make good "Heworthy" reading, too.
-Chris
Wifey B: I would share with him. Men can learn a lot from Cosmopolitan. But that is they type thing one expects from Cosmo as a femalecentric magazine. The things I see in the Sheworthy News isn't femalecentric, other than being written by females. But the same blogs could have easily been written by males, just change a word here and there. Sort of like when you sing a song that was originally recorded by the opposite sex.
Here's an example. If you're writing an article on cooking on a boat, do you call that Sheworthy? I hope not. I know many men, (not Marin, of course) who do cook quite a bit on boats. I know men who watch shows on Food Network.
Just rather than Sheworthy seems to me the theme could better be called Cruising Comfortably on a KK. Or KK, A true vacation home.
We're not female boaters. We're boaters who are female.
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ranger58sb
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Not to worry, I'm on board with all that. Just your earlier thought gave me a laugh.
-Chris
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Good point many of you have brought up about women being scared off by boating, not repelled by the boat. I knew a lot of ladies who would not sail with their husbands because sailing on the SF bay can be fairly terrifying. My husband described it as the scariest thing you will ever do at less than ten miles per hour. Now that we are power boaters, and on calmer waters, we see a lot more couples boating together.
Fear factor aside, I do prefer the powerboat to prior sailboats. I do not miss having to crawl in the bunk from one end or be the one stuck on the side of the bunk with no headroom because I'm under the cockpit. Oh and the refrigerator that can only be accessed through a hatch at the top... among other things. I'd give up my ice maker, dishwasher AND separate shower before I would go back to a sailboat.
Fear factor aside, I do prefer the powerboat to prior sailboats. I do not miss having to crawl in the bunk from one end or be the one stuck on the side of the bunk with no headroom because I'm under the cockpit. Oh and the refrigerator that can only be accessed through a hatch at the top... among other things. I'd give up my ice maker, dishwasher AND separate shower before I would go back to a sailboat.
Not to worry, I'm on board with all that. Just your earlier thought gave me a laugh.
-Chris
Wifey B: I try to give laughs
We need them. 
Codger2
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My wife's thoughts exactly! We both use to sail and loved every minute of it but as we grow older, the creature comforts and a little more speed are much appreciated. Also our guests are much more comfortable.I knew a lot of ladies who would not sail with their husbands because sailing on the SF bay can be fairly terrifying. My husband described it as the scariest thing you will ever do at less than ten miles per hour.........
Fear factor aside, I do prefer the powerboat to prior sailboats......
I'd give up my ice maker, dishwasher AND separate shower before I would go back to a sailboat.
Guest stateroom:
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RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. C "Also our gusts are much more comfortable." I would imagine some gusts on a sailboat would be uncomfortable particularly if they were unexpected...
Mr. C "Also our gusts are much more comfortable." I would imagine some gusts on a sailboat would be uncomfortable particularly if they were unexpected...
There are so many choices of ways to go. You go through many considerations in every boat purchase and the dynamics of every couple is different. We love to day sail but with someone else doing the work. We don't like all the work sailing entails. So we charter when we're in various places. And, yes, we did charter and sail in San Francisco. There are just places it seems so right.
I think as we look at boats too, we find out more things about ourselves. I looked at the cabin on one catamaran and I could feel anxiety building just from the thought. My wife shared my feelings. We even tried to analyze later why it felt like that to us and we're not sure, but think it's something we went through together before we were married, but already knew we were a forever couple. We know as kids we wouldn't been bothered.
We've been talking dishwashers. Certainly any of us could live without one, but some of us sure wouldn't want to. I grew up in a house with one. My wife didn't. But either way that's long ago.
Ultimately, we want to feel as comfortable on our boat as we are at home, if not more so. That doesn't mean the same. Doesn't mean as big or all the amenities, but means a good many of them. We do have the essentials to help us feel that way and then one that honestly surprises us. Remember your first time ever sleeping on a boat? I do mine. I was thinking maybe we should be up in the salon where we're above deck. But I knew I had to get through the discomfort of feeling so much in the water and all the "what if" thoughts. I'm not sure I could have done it without her. There was and always is just something that if we're laying there together, we're safe. Now for the change. I've grown use to sleeping on a floating thing...called a boat. We get home to a huge bed in a huge bedroom and that first night you just feel like it should be moving a little.
Our first longer cruise together on the water was a great experiment as we had no idea how long we'd enjoy cruising without a trip home. I don't see how you know before you do it. With me, I believe in the theory of pain, often used it in business. It's when you hit a level that is painful or uncomfortable. Well, for us it turned out to be six weeks and occasionally for certain trips, two months. After doing a very long trip this year, we're actually doing some one month segments now. Then we go home and face the question of how long before we'll be anxious to get back to the boat. Well, it seems to be three weeks to a month, but during that time we're often out on the water. Even when we were in NC on a lake, we haven't been more than two weeks without getting in a boat since we married in 2001.
One thing I really learned from my wife was being comfortable in your own skin. That applies in this, just whatever you want in your boat is fine. It doesn't matter if everyone else in the world think you're crazy. We know we're so far from conforming with the world and we don't try, don't care, just live life our way. People ask "what's the best boat?" There is no such thing. Just find the one that makes you happy. Find the way of using it that makes you happy. And you is plural for those who have a partner. And you may change over time. I've gone from being a shy, loner who is very uncomfortable in a private setting around strangers (business setting I'm fine, it's like acting). Inhibited. Yes, I was once long ago before my wife. But now, we always have people around our home and on our boat and I love it. This trip we have three 19 and 20 year old girls along among others. I love seeing how they enjoy new places. I'll even give in a night every once in a while and go for dinner in this great pizza joint they found or go to a game room they found. I'm not how I was 20 years ago and so much happier for it. I remember the first time my wife said sweetly to me, "just go with the flow." Well, it works.
Don't let anyone else though tell you what boat is right or what you should have on your boat. Oh, and I may even know why I don't do dishes by hand. I do remember occasionally as a child doing so, but even loading a dishwasher was unpleasant. If my mother was around I wasn't going to be doing it right. Effort didn't count. Perfection only. So, I'd avoid doing any hand washing. Same reason I'd never make my bed. Why do it if you're only going to be told what you did wrong. We are influenced through life in ways we often don't know. Just go with the flow.
I'm sure I've gotten way off topic but I do think it's relevant. My boat is a home to us even if not our primary one. But if what we might consider roughing it, sounds great to you, then that's the way to go. I've still never camped out. Not a single night in a tent out on the ground. It's on the list for one day. Guess knowing that though, it's not surprising I like the comforts.
I think as we look at boats too, we find out more things about ourselves. I looked at the cabin on one catamaran and I could feel anxiety building just from the thought. My wife shared my feelings. We even tried to analyze later why it felt like that to us and we're not sure, but think it's something we went through together before we were married, but already knew we were a forever couple. We know as kids we wouldn't been bothered.
We've been talking dishwashers. Certainly any of us could live without one, but some of us sure wouldn't want to. I grew up in a house with one. My wife didn't. But either way that's long ago.
Ultimately, we want to feel as comfortable on our boat as we are at home, if not more so. That doesn't mean the same. Doesn't mean as big or all the amenities, but means a good many of them. We do have the essentials to help us feel that way and then one that honestly surprises us. Remember your first time ever sleeping on a boat? I do mine. I was thinking maybe we should be up in the salon where we're above deck. But I knew I had to get through the discomfort of feeling so much in the water and all the "what if" thoughts. I'm not sure I could have done it without her. There was and always is just something that if we're laying there together, we're safe. Now for the change. I've grown use to sleeping on a floating thing...called a boat. We get home to a huge bed in a huge bedroom and that first night you just feel like it should be moving a little.
Our first longer cruise together on the water was a great experiment as we had no idea how long we'd enjoy cruising without a trip home. I don't see how you know before you do it. With me, I believe in the theory of pain, often used it in business. It's when you hit a level that is painful or uncomfortable. Well, for us it turned out to be six weeks and occasionally for certain trips, two months. After doing a very long trip this year, we're actually doing some one month segments now. Then we go home and face the question of how long before we'll be anxious to get back to the boat. Well, it seems to be three weeks to a month, but during that time we're often out on the water. Even when we were in NC on a lake, we haven't been more than two weeks without getting in a boat since we married in 2001.
One thing I really learned from my wife was being comfortable in your own skin. That applies in this, just whatever you want in your boat is fine. It doesn't matter if everyone else in the world think you're crazy. We know we're so far from conforming with the world and we don't try, don't care, just live life our way. People ask "what's the best boat?" There is no such thing. Just find the one that makes you happy. Find the way of using it that makes you happy. And you is plural for those who have a partner. And you may change over time. I've gone from being a shy, loner who is very uncomfortable in a private setting around strangers (business setting I'm fine, it's like acting). Inhibited. Yes, I was once long ago before my wife. But now, we always have people around our home and on our boat and I love it. This trip we have three 19 and 20 year old girls along among others. I love seeing how they enjoy new places. I'll even give in a night every once in a while and go for dinner in this great pizza joint they found or go to a game room they found. I'm not how I was 20 years ago and so much happier for it. I remember the first time my wife said sweetly to me, "just go with the flow." Well, it works.
Don't let anyone else though tell you what boat is right or what you should have on your boat. Oh, and I may even know why I don't do dishes by hand. I do remember occasionally as a child doing so, but even loading a dishwasher was unpleasant. If my mother was around I wasn't going to be doing it right. Effort didn't count. Perfection only. So, I'd avoid doing any hand washing. Same reason I'd never make my bed. Why do it if you're only going to be told what you did wrong. We are influenced through life in ways we often don't know. Just go with the flow.
I'm sure I've gotten way off topic but I do think it's relevant. My boat is a home to us even if not our primary one. But if what we might consider roughing it, sounds great to you, then that's the way to go. I've still never camped out. Not a single night in a tent out on the ground. It's on the list for one day. Guess knowing that though, it's not surprising I like the comforts.
In our family the fear would be the other way. Me. Not on that but in Catalina they talked me into a zip line. I don't go near the rails on tall balconies. Flying through the air on a line? Are you serious. Ok, I did it. What an experience in so many ways.
ranger58sb
Guru
Good points, but I'm reminded improved features like that are not simply a matter of sail vs. power. Size can matter, too, so a 24' powerboat (for example) might not be any more comfortable than a 32' sailboat.
-Chris
ranger58sb
Guru
Sounds like the boot camp approach. Sarge will pretty much mess with your head, unless you finally begin to twig on that ,yes, it was perfect, but he must be trying to teach you something else, too.
In one case, it was simply about teamwork. Individual perfect didn't count unless the whole barrack got it right.
But then again, there are people you just can't please. If you know in your own mind that it's perfect -- or even "perfect enough" to suit the criteria at hand -- be content.
Then go with the flow.
-Chris
