Gasoline Engines in a 43

Definitely agree it is an owner/maintenance issue. The event I witnessed was of a 28ft Carver express cruiser. They had "run out of gas". They received a fuel drop from Boat US and then started the boat.....KABOOM!!! The skipper knew he had enough gas when he left the dock but didn't think about the possibility of all of his gas being in the bilge instead of the tanks. Anyway, we were about a half mile away when we saw the mushroom cloud of flames go up and then felt and heard the concussion of the explosion. We "sped" over at 8kts(all my P29 could do)...and literally, the only thing left of the boat was burning pieces raining out of the sky...hollywood could not have been prouder.

The only thing that saved the lives of the 3 people on board was the fact that they were all topside and were blown clear of the schrapnel and the fact that BoatUS and the USCG and Lifeflight acted so quickly. *They were severely burned and limbs were lost.


-- Edited by Baker on Monday 20th of December 2010 10:31:11 AM

I agree that a gas boat has a MUCH higher explosion hazard of a diesel boat... but how many diesel boaters think they are safe... and have propane aboard ( and no bilge blower as they are not required)... I have been in that category. My new boat is gas... not my first choice but it's OK for it's and my use of the current boat. But I do a manual test of the engine space prior to lighting off the monsters... and I am installing a gas fume detector next... better safe than sorry.
HOLLYWOOD

I fished for years in Hawaii on a twin engine gas boat (Uniflite). I didn't think anything of it at the time, and we were very careful to run the engine room blower as well as open the hatches and do a sniff test before starting the engines.

But I would not want gas engines in a boat like ours. There are too many things in the engine room--- water pumps, relays, battery connections, etc. that can cause sparks. I suppose all these things are available in sparkless versions. But based on my experience with vehicle engines (and our boat engines) there are too many opportunities for fuel leaks or seeps to make me want to have gas lines, carburetors or injection systems in a trawler-style boat.

I have no doubt gas engines can be operated safely and trouble-free. A lot of people have been doing it for a lot of years. And it's not like gas-powered boats are exploding left and right. More boat fires are caused in this area by electric cabin heaters than exploding gasoline fumes on engine starts. But I would prefer to not even have the potential for a problem of this kind in my boating life. Diesels eliminate the problem so that, in my opinion, is the way to go for boats like ours with enclosed engine spaces and lots of electrical accessories.

I don't equate having propane on a boat as being the same risk as having gasoline engines. A propane system is invariably above deck and is easily accessible. For example we make it a practice to shut off the propane tank valve whenever we aren't on the boat. It's very easy to do. But stuff in an engine room can more easily be overlooked or go unnoticed. A little fuel weep on the outboard side of an engine in a twin engine boat can be totally overlooked for a long time.

hollywood8118 wrote:

I agree that a gas boat has a MUCH higher explosion hazard of a diesel boat... but how many diesel boaters think they are safe... and have propane aboard ( and no bilge blower as they are not required)... I have been in that category. My new boat is gas... not my first choice but it's OK for it's and my use of the current boat. But I do a manual test of the engine space prior to lighting off the monsters... and I am installing a gas fume detector next... better safe than sorry.
HOLLYWOOD

Click to expand...

Hollywood, that is the way I feel abou propane.* When we had a trawler it came with a propane stove.* I intalled a remote shutoff and a gas detector.* I was still slightly uncomfortable with it.* I felt like I was almost back to orperating a gasoline powered boat.* I love to cook with gas, and have it at home.* The present boat is electric.* We have to run the gen set to charge the batteries so it is not that much trouble to cook with electric.

I have often wondered why CNG is not more available.* It is lighter than air, and is probably considered safer on boats then propane.* It is used on some boats in Europe.

*

The position of the ER is of primary importance if gas is the fuel. The ER must be outside the cabin space. Look at all the popular fast gas powered boats and mostly you will find the ER accessed by lifting a hatch in the cockpit area, open to the outside. Once your ER migrates inside, as in most of our trawlers, gas is way too dangerous. As marin points out, way too any spark extras in our ERs. Even with a bilge blower, the volume of the ER is way too much if under the cabin sole, for any Bilge blower to guarantee to remove the danger. If the volume of the ER is mostly filled by the engines the BB will have a better chance of doing something useful.
Fire is a real possibility, even on a diesel powered boat, so don't increase your risk by putting gas in an ER under the main cabin.

Moonstruck wrote:

*I intalled a remote shutoff and a gas detector.* I was still slightly uncomfortable with it.

Click to expand...

I don't blame you.* We wouldn't trust one of those remote propane shutoff valves any farther than we can spit.* Fortunately our boat was built before such things were invented.* So the propane line in our propane locker on the flying bridge is fitted with a large, very positive*manual shutoff valve that is operated by a handle in the galley overhead.* We keep this valve closed unless we are actually using the stove or oven.* It has become automatic to us to turn off the stove or oven and then reach up and turn off the manual valve in the propane locker.

In addition to this we always turn off the propane tank itself whenever we leave the boat.

So we have no qualms at all*about having a propane range.* With the propane*system mechanically*turned off except when we're actually cooking something we don't feel there is any risk from the system at all.* But if we had one of those electric relay shutoff valves we would always be wondering if it had really shut off.* We've heard one too many tales from boat owners about these relay shutoffs failing to shut of the propane properly or completely to warrant having any faith in them at all.

This is a personal preference, obviously, but an electric galley is completely unacceptable to us regardless of the type, size or age*of the boat.* If a boat was otherwise perfect for us but had an electric galley we would not buy it.* We don't want to be tied to having to run a generator every time we want to cook something.* Plus my wife absolutely detests cooking with electricity so would want no part of an electric galley even if the power was noiselessly available.

Fortunately it's easy to find a boat with the type of galley one prefers, be it propane or electric.

-- Edited by Marin on Monday 20th of December 2010 09:25:18 PM

Hollywood, I also could not agree more about propane! As you know, I just yanked our old propane stove out of our Monk and replaced it with a 2 burner electric cooktop! I just didn't want to have to worry about it at all and like Moonstruck said, we are running our generator in a.m. and p.m. to charge the batteries so no big deal. After having to always be aware of fumes with our previous gas boats, I really just did not want to have to keep worrying about stuff like that again on our Monk. Of course....I'll probably still have to worry about it if I ever raft up with gas powered boats!
Keith, if you look @ most larger has powered boats, either aft cabin motoryachts or sedans, you are going to find 95% of the engines are under the cabin and not out in the cockpit as putting them too far aft makes for a stern heavy ride.

Marin, your manual shut off is a good system.* It would definitely make me rest easier.* The remote shut off I had was a solonoid that had to be energized to be in the open position.* When the switch turned off the spring would slam the valve shut.* We could hear the click as it shut.* There probably could be something caught in the valve to keep it from closing all the way, but not likely.* What I most worried about was the line cracking from vibration.* It had a 1/4 or 5/16" line of solid copper similar to what Woodsong's son cut out.* Being in construction, I am familiar with the problems that copper can have with corrosion and cracking.* Today we use some much better flexible gas piping lines.* It is very expensive, but much superior.* Don't know if it is rated for propane.* If it is any propane on my boat would be replumbed with it.

Didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest. And I didn't think of the ethanol issue. Just that gas IS an option and from a performance standpoint (as long as one dosn't pay for the fuel) gas is smoother, lighter and/or more powerful and produces far less noise. For market value it sucks. For safety it sucks. For fuel economy it sucks. And the ethanol sucks. Beyond that it's clearly superior. Not to worry I'm not converting to gas nor do I think anyone else on the forum should convert. Thirty to 50' pleasure boats were almost all gas in the 50s. Diesel engines were too expensive, heavy or didn't produce enough power and that's still true to some extent today. Diesel will never quite match gasoline and I don't think the gap will become noticeably smaller either. But if I was given the choice of gas or diesel (let's say Yanmars or Crusaders) on the previously mentioned Tolly for a trip up here and back and both boats had nice quiet lift mufflers I'd say both boats would be very close to equal performers except for the safety factor * *...so I would go for the diesel boat almost entirely*on account of the safty issue. This is, by the way, only a discussion item * *..not an action item.


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Monday 20th of December 2010 10:09:57 PM

Tony:
Bad choice.
I do CCGA inspections at my YC. Yes, there are a few gassers with the engines under the cabin. Doesn't make it right.
Most are out back.

nomadwilly wrote:

...from a performance standpoint (as long as one dosn't pay for the fuel) gas is smoother, lighter and/or more powerful and produces far less noise.

Click to expand...

Interestingly enough, the folks in Europe, who seem to be light years ahead of the US in terms of automotive diesel engines, have created diesel engines for vehicles that from the driver's point of view are every bit as responsive and quiet as gas engines in the same car.* For example when in France we always hire a Citroen C5, which is or was their top-of-the line passenger car.* While we don't specify the type of engine we have gotten both gas and diesel variants.* From a driver's perspective, I can't tell them apart.* The diesel is just as quiet, just as responsive, and just as powerful as the gas engined version we've hired.

Same thing with the Land Rovers we have hired in the UK.* We always end up with a diesel and it has no problems dealing with the 70-90 mph motorway speeds and, while it does have a bit of that diesel clatter, it is for all practical purposes as quiet as a gas engine.

As opposed to the ridiculous racket made by Dodge and Ford* diesel pickups, all of which sound even at idle like a 50-gallon oil drum filled with rocks being shaken on a giant paint mixer amplified through a Marshal stack.* If I had a vehicle that*made that hideous and loud*of a noise it would really piss me off.

A couple of years ago we did a bunch of filming at Air France's main cargo hub at Charles de Gaulle airport outside Paris.* Hundreds of highway trucks bring freight to the hub or haul it away every day.* European semi-tractors are every bit as powerful as US semis-- the main differences are their relatively short wheelbases and lack of big sleeper cabs, dictated in part by the narrow roads and cramped loading facilities they often encounter.* They are also very quiet compared to the typical Kenworth or Peterbuilt.

So either the Europeans are far superior diesel designers or the US diesel manufacturers*are just lazy.* I don't know*which it is--- maybe both, or maybe it's something else entirely.* But diesels can be made to be quiet and responsive if you know how.

Marin wrote:But diesels can be made to be quiet and responsive if you know how.

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Quite right.* The Europeans invented the diesel and perfected it.* Many American manufacturers have used their sytems under license.* The horrendous price of fuel over there has brought the diesel car to the head of the pack.* About 1/2 their cars are diesel.* Also Europeans as a whole are more concious of the care of their auto and many own them for a very long time.* Americans are more of a throw away society.

When it comes to the larger, more powerful diesels no one beats us.* I don't see alot of Manns or MTUs in boats anymore.* There were problems with them.* Our big over the road trucks are very powerful compared to most European models.* You can believe that it takes an exceptional amount of power to pull* those freight train looking rigs you see in your part of the country.* I don't see those in Europe.

Caterpillar has a great reputation for their large diesels worlwide.* However as far as cars go, the Europeans have it.* I have a Mercedes Diesel.* My last car was a Mercedes diesel.* The newer models have great torque, quietness, and fuel economy.* The E300D compares favorably with the E350 gas while getting about 35mpg.* By the way, it is not usually very hard to sell a Mercedes diesel.

*

Well I've never seen a diesel that had any guts. When I want guts I'll break out my*455 Buick. Ain't no diesel gonna compare w that!

Gee, guys, I never associated "performance" (in the sense of speed) with a trawler.* We don't need gasoline engines because we're not going faster than fat*sailboats.* Now then, don't all the advantages come to the diesel engine.

nomadwilly wrote:

Well I've never seen a diesel that had any guts.

Click to expand...

Go to Europe.* You'll probably be amazed........

*

Marin, you need to take a look at Ford's new 2011 F-Series pickups with their (not Navistar's) 6.7 liter diesel. I've been buying Ford Powerstroke's for my company since 1995. They've changed.... They are nearly as quite as a gasoline engine. They put out 400 hp with 800 lb/ft torque. I've timed 0-60 mph in about 7.5 seconds. Sets me back in my seat through the entire power curve. It continues to accelerate to 95 mph when a set point kicks in and saves me from my foolishness! No smoke. Very impressive.

Ray

nomadwilly wrote:

Well I've never seen a diesel that had any guts. When I want guts I'll break out my*
455 Buick. Ain't no diesel gonna compare w that!

Click to expand...

Eric, it looks as big (look at that hood/deck!)*as an aircraft carrier.* So, how many F4Fs, *SBDs and TBD/TBFs can it accommodate?* Doubt it gets much better mileage than Willy.

*

"the folks in Europe, who seem to be light years ahead of the US in terms of automotive diesel engines, have created diesel engines for vehicles that from the driver's point of view are every bit as responsive and quiet as gas engines in the same car."

And there in lies the RUB.

The newest diesels have 20,000 to 30,000 PSI in the fuel manifold , with a tiny leak the vaperized diesel is every bit as explosive as gasoline.
So all the newest Diesel boats will have to be fitted our as if they were gas boats.

Explosion proof starter , alternator , vent fans and every other bit of ER goodies will need protection.

"Gee, guys, I never associated "performance" (in the sense of speed) with a trawler. We don't need gasoline engines because we're not going faster than fat sailboats. Now then, don't all the advantages come to the diesel engine."

IF the "trawler" is used 100 or 200 hours a year as most rec motor boats do, gas would be the fuel of choice. Same cheap maint , and 1/4 to 1/6 replacement cost if killed due to lack of maint . Since a trawler may be 10 to 20 tons any car engine of 50 to 100hp (max 5hp/ton) at the breakers yard would be fine.

The good news is the Vampires , dead men attempting to force their rule , AKA Lame Ducks , may have overstepped their ability.

Instead of 15% Ethanol mandate for the farmers and state tax men , there is a movement to end the mandate ,0% and our cars , outboards and gas toys will be much easier to maintain.

Corn will drop 40% in price , but subsidies, as always will , as always keep our factory farms in the ca$h .

Better to give the farmers their welfare than continue to destroy our engines.

"A gasser should be REAL CHEAP, as in---real cheap.'

WEll then get on the stick and locate a trailer cruiser (similar to a Rossboro 25) max inside minimum outside.

Would be delighted to find a gasser with a blown engine so I can plop in my favorite V8.


My trailer hitch is ready!

Moonstruck wrote:I don't see alot of Manns or MTUs in boats anymore.*

Click to expand...

You need to get out and look at more boats. MANs and MTUs are the engines of choice on large fast yachts. They provide the best power to weight ratio and highest performance, particularly the MTUs.

They aren't just used on the thorobred boats either, they are common on cruising and charter boats that want high power and reliability in a smaller package than a heavy duty workboat engine.

If you really want performance there are a couple of Italian diesels that make you think of a RR Merlin.

To me, the term "fast trawler" simply does not compute.* We don't need it when "express cruiser" or "sportsfisherman" already properly define the type of boat required by the zoom-zoom crowd.

Yup, MTUs are alive and well in the off highway business too. Nordhavn is now supplying MTUs in many of their vessels.

In the US, Diesel in cars makes little sense IMHO because of the much higher diesel fuel cost as compared to gas, which erodes any MPG advantage. Europe does not have this price distortion. I have come close in the past few years to buying a Blutech MB, but chickened out -* I have owned several Mercedes. I gave up on them because of the high and frequent*maintenance cost. Five years ago their brake by wire systems turned an otherwise good vehicle into a cash*hole once the warranty disappeared.

For the past few years it has been Acura, Lexus and Infinti cars for me.* Every year I go look at MBs and BMWs and love the vehicles but hate the upkeep issues and costs. Now if I leased and threw them away every 2 - 3 years, an MB or BMW gasser would likely be in my garage.

But more important to me this morning* - Will My Snowblower Start? The Utah mountains are getting dumped on with Alta approaching 5 feet in the past two days. Skiing for Christmas!!

-- Edited by sunchaser on Tuesday 21st of December 2010 08:24:05 AM

sunchaser wrote:

Yup, MTUs are alive and well in the off highway business too. Nordhavn is now supplying MTUs in many of their vessels.

-* I have owned several Mercedes. I gave up on them because of the high and frequent*maintenance cost.

Click to expand...

OK, Sunchaser you and Rick B. got me on that one.* I will bow to your superior knowledge on Manns and MTUs.* I was going by the big sports fisherman models that had trouble especially with the v-10 Manns.

As for Mercedes, I have driven them for 40 years.* 2 gas, 2 diesel.* The diesels have been very low maintenance costs.* 325,000 mi. on the last, 220,000 on the present.* Our construction trucks are noisy, but when it comes to pulling trailers their torque and durability out do the gasoline trucks.* We routinely run them 4-500,000 miles and more*before any serious repairs.

I do not like the new engines with electronic controls and the extremely high fuel pressures like referred to by FF.* Yes, a fine mist of diesel can be explosive especially when it hits a hot turbo.* Dust can explode or flash*when suspended in air at the right ratio.* To me, electronic controls have no place on work engines.

*

FF wrote: The newest diesels have 20,000 to 30,000 PSI in the fuel manifold , with a tiny leak the vaperized diesel is every bit as explosive as gasoline.
So all the newest Diesel boats will have to be fitted our as if they were gas boats.

Explosion proof starter , alternator , vent fans and every other bit of ER goodies will need protection.

Click to expand...

Sorry FF, wrong as usual.

Smaller CR engines either completely enclose the fuel lines to contain a leak, isolate ignition sources from potential fuel spray, or use "flow fuses" ala Cummins that shut off a line that leaks.

Larger engines that meet IMO requirements use double wall fuel lines that contain any leak and trigger an alarm if one occurs.

The reality is that common rail systems maintain a high but constant pressure as opposed to "normal" systems that create high pressure pulses*which fatigue steel fuel lines and lead to the cracks you are worried about. The scenario you described is much more likely to happen on an older mechanical engine than a new CR electronic controlled one.*Several years of operating history has already proven this point.

When CR engines were introduced to the*recreational boat industry a*few years ago, the boating gurus were gving themselves joint problems waving red flags and claiming that boats were going to turn into IEDs. It simply hasn't happened*and your own scenario is simply uninformed and pointless fear mongering.*

-- Edited by RickB on Tuesday 21st of December 2010 09:18:45 AM

I still don't care for or want electronic controls, but that is the new world we live in.* We just got a truck out of the shop.* The repair was not much, but the time to find a bad wire in a harness was expensive.* Intermitent electrical problems are very hard to pin down.* Nothing is 100%.* If EIFS on homes could keep out moisture 100% of the time, it would be a great system.* It didn't and it wasn't.*

Yeah, fuel lines on mechanical engines take a good pounding, we just replaced one.* Fairly simple and cheap.* There seems to be no cheap repairs on the newer diesels.* I had a friend that nearly lost a boat to a busted fuel line on a mechanically controled*Perkins.* Fuel ignited when it hit the turbo.* Halon went off and saved the boat.* Nothing is 100%.

One of the main reasons for the success of MTUs in pleasure boats is that they provide the most powerful engine available to the pleasure boat fleet. I know a guy that had a 68ft Viking with 2400hp MTUs and he upgraded to the 74....if they made a bigger engine, he would have got it but there wasn't one available at the time(2 years ago). That may have changed. The biggest Cat at the time was 1800hp. BTW, I think MTU stand for "Mercedes Turbo Unit"....

My Yanmar makes 240hp with only 213CID.....more power per cubic inch than most gasoline engines!!!!

No Mark. The hood's not long. Driven a conventional Peterbuilt lately? Everything's relative. You say the buick's hood's long because you prolly drive a little car. Our roads are big enough for stretch limo's and the're much longer than Brown Bear (the Buick's name is Brown Bear). BB is big when I go to find a parking space though. I HATE those little parking stalls. Don't even like'em w my Toyota! We have 5 vehicles and by far the easist and most comfortable to drive is Brown Bear. By the way she gets 14 mpg** ...
twice what Willy gets. Hmmmm* a diesel truck engine w 400hp? Wonder if it would fit in BB? That would ruin the buick though. Ever seen a luxury car w a diesel in it? There's a reason for that.
CC*** ..looks like you have a fast trawler yourself. Or is it a cruiser? I don't think the word "trawler" is justifiable at all. Just because NT and then others styled their cruiser after tug boats is no reason to call them tugs either. All of these boats are heavy cruisers and all other names are just silly stuff like young girls saying ther'e going on "vacay". Some say "real boaters have sails" or "real boaters have engines" or "real men drive trawlers"**** ....cruisers are for dad's and Sissy's. Perhaps "trawler" came to pass as a defense against slow. The word may have brought heavy cruiser men from slow like an old man in a big black car to cool dudes. The word trawler brought the guys w the slow (like an old man) heavy cruiser out of the old man that's not "with it" to the gentlemanly cool dude category. Fast trawler is a "cake and eat it too" category. Since real north sea trawlers are big and tough that makes drivers of "trawlers" big and tough too. Young men go fast and old men go slow. Young men are cool** ...old men are not (except me). So lets give heavy cruisers a new cool and brawny name like (trawler) and make us old men cool. But I agree w you ConolyCove it's a bit silly and "fast trawler" is, perhaps" a bit over the edge into the stupid category.

Eric---

I believe--- but I could be mistaken-- that Bentley offers a diesel in at least one of their models. I seem to recall Jeremy Clarkson reviewing one on Top Gear, but I could be thinking of another make.

I agree with you about the "names" that have been drummed up for trawler-type boats. Virtually all of them were hatched up by the marketing folks, I think. A trawler drags a net around. That--- to me--- is the only correct use of the term. As I've mentioned before, even American Marine didn't use the term "trawler" to describe their Grand Banks line of boats. In their ads and literature they were always referred to as "Dependable Diesel Cruisers." The attached photo is the cover for the 19734 Grand Banks brochure (the boat pictured is identical to our '73 boat other than the radar mount).

I don't believe Tollycraft (speaking of gas-powered cruisers) ever used the term "trawler" to refer to any of their boats, although I hear plenty of Tolly owners today refer to their boats as "trawlers."

I think your term "heavy cruiser" is pretty accurate as long as people don't think you're talking about the USS Baltimore.* The term "trawler" conjures up rugged commercial fishing boats that routinely tackle the North Sea, Alaskan waters, and so on.* Seaworthy, strongly built, etc.* While I recall you don't really agree with this, the first "cabin cruisers" of what became known as "trawlers" had superstructures VERY loosely based on one of the many commercial fishboat configurations--- foward pilothouse or helm with an elongated main cabin aft of it, a small forward cabin with a V-berth, and an aft cabin where the fish holds and fishing gear were located on a commercial boat.

Saying you have a "trawer" sounded rugged and nautical, so the marketing folks jumped all over it.* Simply tacking the name "trawler" onto anything supposedly got potential buyers thinking about "tough" boatst that could take it.* So just about every boat configuration you could think of became "trawlers."* I've even heard the owners of some of the semi-planing Bayliner models like the 3288 and 3788 refer to their boats as "trawlers."

Now we have the tug-type boats, the Camano Trolls, etc. all being called "fast trawlers."* This is really a stretch since by definition--- the correct definition--- a trawler is by its very nature a pretty slow boat.* At least it is while it's fishing.

They're all "cabin cruisers" to me.





-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 21st of December 2010 12:21:56 PM

Baker wrote:

One of the main reasons for the success of MTUs in pleasure boats is that they provide the most powerful engine available to the pleasure boat fleet.*

BTW, I think MTU stand for "Mercedes Turbo Unit"....

Click to expand...

MTU makes some awesome engines. I was on sea trials of the King of Spain's old*jetboat, the Corona del Mar that is fitted with a pair of MTU 16V538s that produce around 4500 horsepower each*with sequential turbocharging and cylinder cutout for efficient operation over a wide power range. They were a real treat to listen to.

I don't know if you were joking about the "Mercedes Turbo Unit" or not but the history of MTU is fascinating and has its roots in the aviation business and links to very high end automobiles ... the Maybach.

In 1909 Karl Maybach built a powerful and lightweight engine for Count Zeppelin and set up a factory to produce them in Friedrichshafen. They were specially designed to be "overcompressed" with large cylinder capacity to compensate for power loss at high altitudes. This was before the advent of supercharging.

After WW1 Maybach started building cars that became known as the "German Rolls Royce" because of their size and quality. When German rearmament began, Maybach built the engines used in the Panther and Tiger tanks as well as other panzers.

After the 2nd world war Maybach built its first diesels using the techniques that made their gas engines so powerful, mulitple valves, oil cooled pistons, and high performance turbocharging. These were used in patrol boats and locomotives. In the early 1960s Daimler Benz began to work with Maybach and later founded a joint company called Mercedes Benz Motorenbau.

Around 1970, Daimler-Benz, and MAN (Maschinenfabrik Augsburg Aktiengesellschaft) - the folks Rudolph Diesel went to with his idea of a new type of engine - got together and formed Motoren und Turbinen Union or MTU as it's now known.

Sorry if I bored anyone but the historical links in the development of the diesel engine are often fascinating and they explain how some of the techniques we use today (and sometimes believe are newly discovered) came to be.

MTU engines are used on many large yachts, especially the high performance designs and just to close the loop, during the boat show Monaco harbor is filled with MTU engines and the streets are lined with Maybach cars.

*

RickB wrote:

*
Baker wrote:

One of the main reasons for the success of MTUs in pleasure boats is that they provide the most powerful engine available to the pleasure boat fleet.*

BTW, I think MTU stand for "Mercedes Turbo Unit"....

Click to expand...

MTU makes some awesome engines. I was on sea trials of the King of Spain's old*jetboat, the Corona del Mar that is fitted with a pair of MTU 16V538s that produce around 4500 horsepower each*with sequential turbocharging and cylinder cutout for efficient operation over a wide power range. They were a real treat to listen to.

I don't know if you were joking about the "Mercedes Turbo Unit" or not but the history of MTU is fascinating and has its roots in the aviation business and links to very high end automobiles ... the Maybach.

In 1909 Karl Maybach built a powerful and lightweight engine for Count Zeppelin and set up a factory to produce them in Friedrichshafen. They were specially designed to be "overcompressed" with large cylinder capacity to compensate for power loss at high altitudes. This was before the advent of supercharging.

After WW1 Maybach started building cars that became known as the "German Rolls Royce" because of their size and quality. When German rearmament began, Maybach built the engines used in the Panther and Tiger tanks as well as other panzers.

After the 2nd world war Maybach built its first diesels using the techniques that made their gas engines so powerful, mulitple valves, oil cooled pistons, and high performance turbocharging. These were used in patrol boats and locomotives. In the early 1960s Daimler Benz began to work with Maybach and later founded a joint company called Mercedes Benz Motorenbau.

Around 1970, Daimler-Benz, and MAN (Maschinenfabrik Augsburg Aktiengesellschaft) - the folks Rudolph Diesel went to with his idea of a new type of engine - got together and formed Motoren und Turbinen Union or MTU as it's now known.

Sorry if I bored anyone but the historical links in the development of the diesel engine are often fascinating and they explain how some of the techniques we use today (and sometimes believe are newly discovered) came to be.

MTU engines are used on many large yachts, especially the high performance designs and just to close the loop, during the boat show Monaco harbor is filled with MTU engines and the streets are lined with Maybach cars.*MTU = Motoren- und Turbinen-Union

*