Lake Champlain to Atlantic city maybe Cape May

c350amg · Jun 16, 2015

Need some advice for a portion of our upcoming trip.

We are new to boating (last year) and have been practicing on Lake champlain long rides every time we are available, we also navigated the st-lawrence river from Montreal to Plattsburgh NY. Also got in nasty winds on a following sea and I know my personal limit.

2 seconds on the boat, she is a Bayliner 3270 with twin Hino's all equiped (generator, ac, new electronics, new vhf with IC DCS AIS...).
She caries 200 gallons of diesel. New batteries, new wiring, new a large bunch of things, new RIB aluminum dinghy, new outboard engine. Pretty confident on hear abilities.

Since we are canadians I also have my crusing permit, insurance modified, maps, on the go internet hub via ATT, only missing a new radar.

Now the 1st portion of the trip not to worried about, that's the part from Lake Champlain to NYC.

It's the second portion either the ICW of NJ or run in the ocean.

I hear horror stories by reading old posts here about the ICW.

Running the ocean makes me a tad more uncomfortable being new to this. Because of my boat design and engines I can run at hull speed at around 7.5 knot or push her up to 14.5 at 70 % or tops at 17 if really needed.

There is a first time for everything and I am not afraid to simply back out once in NYC back the Hudson.

What are the best inlets to enter if need to go back in.

What are the winds to avoid (N,E,W,S), speed, size of waves, seconds between waves etc..

Thanks in advance

Marlinmike · Jun 16, 2015

Good questions. Would not overly worry about NJ, with that said I would not go inside unless absolutely necessary and then it would be on high tide periods. Look in the Sandy Hook NJ area for a good staging spot, find the right weather window and leave real early. Atlantic City has a good inlet and then Cape May is also very good.
You did not say when you are leaving, but during summer months the predominate wind is SW, low in early AM and picks up speed as the land mass heats up. Go in forecasts of 5-10 knots or 10-15, anything over that would start becoming uncomfortable.

c350amg · Jun 16, 2015

Marlinmike said:
Good questions. Would not overly worry about NJ, with that said I would not go inside unless absolutely necessary and then it would be on high tide periods. Look in the Sandy Hook NJ area for a good staging spot, find the right weather window and leave real early. Atlantic City has a good inlet and then Cape May is also very good.
You did not say when you are leaving, but during summer months the predominate wind is SW, low in early AM and picks up speed as the land mass heats up. Go in forecasts of 5-10 knots or 10-15, anything over that would start becoming uncomfortable.

Thanks for the reply, Departure date is July 10th in 4 weeks.

Recommendation in Sandy Hook for a marina to wait for good weather ?

According to my math, Sandy Hook to Atlantic city is around 81 knots which would be 12 hours at 7knot or 6.75 hours at 12knots which is a nice speed for my boat

c350amg · Jun 16, 2015

By the way when you run outside, how far is outside from the actual coast ?

RT Firefly · Jun 16, 2015

Greetings,
Mr. 350. Welcome aboard. Can't advise about your route but would recommend tow insurance of you don't already have it. We have the Boat US Gold plan. Hope I'll never need it but we got it.
You mention no NEW radar. Does that mean you have old radar? You might need it.

Marlinmike · Jun 16, 2015

Atlantic Highlands has a lot of moorings and some dockage, if you want to go further in we like Fairhaven Yacht works, then you could take the dink over to Red Bank, nice town.

I travel about a mile off the coast.

Also if in an emergency you need to get in, we have been in Shark River Inlet and didn't find it too bad, just need to wait for the bridge to open, which is pretty close to the inlet opening.

c350amg · Jun 16, 2015

RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. 350. Welcome aboard. Can't advise about your route but would recommend tow insurance of you don't already have it. We have the Boat US Gold plan. Hope I'll never need it but we got it.
You mention no NEW radar. Does that mean you have old radar? You might need it.

Already US tow gold, first thing I did at purchase time ;-)

Currently no radar, Will install a brand new one from Garmin because I am running new Garmin 741 and Ipad with bluecharts

psneeld · Jun 16, 2015

actually the NJ ICW from Manasquan to Atlantic City isn't the worst part in my experience. Some spots in the Beach Haven area, the a couple in Great Bay and behind Brigantine can be tricky...but on the last 3 hrs of a rising tide and the first 3 of the falling and you shouldn't experience too much low water.

The NJ ICW south of AC is trickier in my book..

Manasquan and AC (Absecon) inlets are very good in my opinion, Barnegat isn't too bad. Shark River can be tricky, especially if you need the bridge open if it is still a bascule bridge.

boatdriver47 · Jun 16, 2015

No need to go inside on the Jersey ICW if you don't want to if you can run 100+ miles at 12. Wait at Atlantic Highlands or anchor behind the hook for light and variable or westerly and leave early (day brake)---14 hours of daylight this time of year. I agree on the preferred inlets. I just did it in the other direction at 8.5 no problem.

c350amg · Jun 16, 2015

boatdriver47 said:
No need to go inside on the Jersey ICW if you don't want to if you can run 100+ miles at 12. Wait at Atlantic Highlands or anchor behind the hook for light and variable or westerly and leave early (day brake)---14 hours of daylight this time of year. I agree on the preferred inlets. I just did it in the other direction at 8.5 no problem.

That should not be a problem, the community of the Bayliner 32XX says at 12 knots it's 7.4 gallons an hour. I will plan for the worse which let's say 12 knots at 12 gallons an hour. This will take 8.3 hours * 12 gallons = 100 gallons. I have 200 gallons in the tanks.

Last time we did such a run was on the st-lawrence we did 122 nautical miles and it took 85 gallons at a speed of 14 knots which is 9.75 gallons an hour.

Thanks for the help. appreciated

Bacchus · Jun 16, 2015

c350...

I've done portions of your trip twice as crew on boat delivery cruises.

1st about 10 yrs ago - 40 ft sailboat w/ full electronics - GPS, radar, autopilot - from Chesie Bay to LI Sound - crew of 3... We also had inverter that could power microwave & do food prep on the go.
Due to slow hull speed we ran Delaware Bay at night to take advantage of tides - harder than we thought as there is a lot of commercial traffic
We ran outside NJ due to mast ht so have no ICW experience.
Had no real issues except a storm we ducked into Atlantic City - to get some rest, eat, do some repairs & wait out the bad Wx.
Transient docking was pretty expensive but we found a museum across from Trump Casino that had a dock and took a donation to cover dockage o' nite - a good deal.
Altantic city to NY Harbor took us roughly 12 hrs motoring - we ran a few miles off shore (~3) to avoid any wave affects of shallow shore and have a straight route.
We ran overnight w/ rotating shifts... motoring only at night and motor-sailing during day as conditions were favorable & had the extra hands available Single handed for portion of the shift - overlap at each end to info transfer - no one left the cockpit after dark - if it would have been req'd we had jack line pre-rigged and had inflatable life vest w/ harness available. Would also require full crew available for extra hands if req'd.
Planned NY Harbor arrival at daybreak which would have put us at slack tide or better at Hells Gate going to the LI sound.
Conditions were beneficial and we arrived early which was a little intimidating in the dark but worked OK.
Make contact w/ commercial traffic and monitor their designated channel (13?) so you both know what the other is doing... they were good about informing each other of moves and appreciated knowing we were also informed.
I've taken the USPower Squadron Piloting & Adv Piloting courses which included charting plus tides & currents - I'd say you want to have some knowledge of tides & have access to tide tables if you go beyond NYC.

2nd trip - 39 ft twin diesel Tiara sport cruiser - also well equipped - gps, radar, autopilot, IPS drives (joystick) & crew of 3
We left from Staten Is then N to Troy then W on NY Canals - delivery was Seneca Lk (Finger Lakes) NY
Our travel was all daylight.
We had a major problem after hitting a LOG - roughly 1 ft dia x 20 ft long which jammed in the forward facing stbd dual props of the Volvo IPS drive... dead in the water.
Had to get towed to Haverstraw marina by SeaTow - my understanding is that TowBoat US doesn't operate on the Hudson so you will want to check if they reciprocate w/ SeaTow or you need separate coverage. Our tow bill was LARGE and would have been $0 if we were a member.
Haverstraw marina (about a half day N of NYC) is a large full service marina w/ restaurant, pool, service etc. We overnighted there awaiting haul & prop replacement. ( I have a few pics if you'd like the gory details, also have a local prop shop that can work miracles - Ive used him for my personal work after I saw what he did reworking duo-props that were turned inside-out)
Debris can be hazardous on the Hudson especially after rains / hi water and logs are barely visible in some conditions / locations (wind & waves obscure them pretty well)
NYC harbor was very busy during daylight - especially early AM rush hour w/ ferries / shutttles running in the Hudson

Hope that helps - let me know if any of that raised additional questions

We are headed for Lk Champlain in July - 2 boats both w/ gennies & fairly self sufficient - actually one is the 39 Ft Tiara other is my 34 Mainship HT - do you have any recommendations for best anchorages, marinas, restaurants or other attractions? I have another thread re: Lake Champlain Recommendations - might be better to reply there if you have anything - that way it keeps both threads focused and avoids unnecessary drift.

Thanks

c350amg · Jun 16, 2015

Bacchus said:
c350...

I've done portions of your trip twice as crew on boat delivery cruises.

1st about 10 yrs ago - 40 ft sailboat w/ full electronics - GPS, radar, autopilot - from Chesie Bay to LI Sound - crew of 3... We also had inverter that could power microwave & do food prep on the go.
Due to slow hull speed we ran Delaware Bay at night to take advantage of tides - harder than we thought as there is a lot of commercial traffic
We ran outside NJ due to mast ht so have no ICW experience.
Had no real issues except a storm we ducked into Atlantic City - to get some rest, eat, do some repairs & wait out the bad Wx.
Transient docking was pretty expensive but we found a museum across from Trump Casino that had a dock and took a donation to cover dockage o' nite - a good deal.
Altantic city to NY Harbor took us roughly 12 hrs motoring - we ran a few miles off shore (~3) to avoid any wave affects of shallow shore and have a straight route.
We ran overnight w/ rotating shifts... motoring only at night and motor-sailing during day as conditions were favorable & had the extra hands available Single handed for portion of the shift - overlap at each end to info transfer - no one left the cockpit after dark - if it would have been req'd we had jack line pre-rigged and had inflatable life vest w/ harness available. Would also require full crew available for extra hands if req'd.
Planned NY Harbor arrival at daybreak which would have put us at slack tide or better at Hells Gate going to the LI sound.
Conditions were beneficial and we arrived early which was a little intimidating in the dark but worked OK.
Make contact w/ commercial traffic and monitor their designated channel (13?) so you both know what the other is doing... they were good about informing each other of moves and appreciated knowing we were also informed.
I've taken the USPower Squadron Piloting & Adv Piloting courses which included charting plus tides & currents - I'd say you want to have some knowledge of tides & have access to tide tables if you go beyond NYC.

2nd trip - 39 ft twin diesel Tiara sport cruiser - also well equipped - gps, radar, autopilot, IPS drives (joystick) & crew of 3
We left from Staten Is then N to Troy then W on NY Canals - delivery was Seneca Lk (Finger Lakes) NY
Our travel was all daylight.
We had a major problem after hitting a LOG - roughly 1 ft dia x 20 ft long which jammed in the forward facing stbd dual props of the Volvo IPS drive... dead in the water.
Had to get towed to Haverstraw marina by SeaTow - my understanding is that TowBoat US doesn't operate on the Hudson so you will want to check if they reciprocate w/ SeaTow or you need separate coverage. Our tow bill was LARGE and would have been $0 if we were a member.
Haverstraw marina (about a half day N of NYC) is a large full service marina w/ restaurant, pool, service etc. We overnighted there awaiting haul & prop replacement. ( I have a few pics if you'd like the gory details, also have a local prop shop that can work miracles - Ive used him for my personal work after I saw what he did reworking duo-props that were turned inside-out)
Debris can be hazardous on the Hudson especially after rains / hi water and logs are barely visible in some conditions / locations (wind & waves obscure them pretty well)
NYC harbor was very busy during daylight - especially early AM rush hour w/ ferries / shutttles running in the Hudson

Hope that helps - let me know if any of that raised additional questions

We are headed for Lk Champlain in July - 2 boats both w/ gennies & fairly self sufficient - actually one is the 39 Ft Tiara other is my 34 Mainship HT - do you have any recommendations for best anchorages, marinas, restaurants or other attractions? I have another thread re: Lake Champlain Recommendations - might be better to reply there if you have anything - that way it keeps both threads focused and avoids unnecessary drift.

Thanks

Thanks a lot, I am new to Lake Champlain but can make a few comments.

I am at the treadwell Marina just past Plattsburgh NY, It's simply the best yacht club with huge swimming pool and tennis courts, fully protected from winds and waves from any direction.

Lake Champlain is really big and you do have to watch out for winds because the waves get really big and very short.

Burlington VT is marvelous you will fall in love, they have moorings and docks, it's a super cool town with a beach.

You can also anchor at the Burlington municipal beach is winds from the North (North Beach Park). Else you go on the other bay Appletree is winds from south.

Then you have also the Shelburne bay with mooring also just off Burlington.

You can also go to Valcour Island and hide in one of the bays select a side based on wind.

There are so many other places that I am currently discovering ;-)

If you have too much time on your hands just continue North On the Richelieu river through all the marvelous locks and end up in The St-Lawrence in Old Montreal ;-)

cappy208 · Jul 16, 2015

c350amg How is the trip going? Sounds like a nice trip. The 'waiting for a fair tide/wind' is an old saying. But it is still true now as it was in the days of sailing ships.

Lake Champlain to Atlantic city maybe Cape May

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