Coolant - How often do you top up?

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I have started to use about a 1/2 qt of coolant on my STD Cat engine after running a few hours. No visible leaks or coolant in the oil, so I am going to pull the heat exchanger and have it tested.
 
"I'm curious about the special AF for diesels."

Diesel SCA is required for modern engines where the coolany is in contact with the external cylinder wall.

For a throwaway like a 3208 or an oldie where the cylinder sleves are put into the cast irin block, SCA is not required.


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    1. Supplemental Coolant Additives (SCAs) - Cummins Filtration

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  4. Jul 1, 2008 - 15 posts - ‎5 authors
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  5. Supplemental Coolant Additives (S


 
I would go with the premixed stuff. In fact, I think the Cummins authorities recommend that!
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. A. Will do but it won't be for a while. We're home and the boat is not and we don't anticipate visiting for some time.


It's always sad when they first leave home. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
 
FF I asked one of my mechanics today and he asked me what was in the engine now? I thought it was green and he said to just use the green. I sensed that if I had said LLC he would have said to use that. He clearly didn't think it mattered much.

Well I stopped at the boat and looked .. whatever it is it's red. It's not the green stuff so it must be LLC of some kind. I looked at some LLC AF that had special capabilities fot Cat engines. Do you think any of these SCAs would be undesireable in my little Mitsu? Or maybe I should flush it all out and just use green. ?? The simplistic approach would be to just find some red LLC and use it.
 
Stick with what you've got or flush and replace with new. Just don't mix the green with the red. My CAT guy told me he has seen the mixture form a gel. He also said if I need to add some, and don't have the right stuff on board simply add water only as the safest approach. Wouldn't do that for winter storage without checking the specific gravity.
 
My hino EH700 have dry liners but require distilled water because of the aluminium manicoolers.
 
"Do you think any of these SCAs would be undesireable in my little Mitsu?"

The SCA works by forming a barrier of goop on the surface of the cylinder wall.

When a cavitation bubble happens it explodes and wears the goop, not the cylinder wall.

If its not needed , NOT having it might help cooling , but at your power settings , it should never be a problem either way.

ON my series 50-DD I use the green stuff , distilled water and DD SCA .

But that's 400 hp @ 2100 cont. With bare cylinder walls exposed to the coolant.
 
A few years back a knowledgeable poster posted a link to antifreeze specs or similar...

Bottom line is color really doesn't mean one thing or another to tel, you anything about the antifreeze.

You have to know the chemistry of what you have, what you need and what you add and when.

Funny how particular people are about some thing and their engines such as oil and yet pretty carefree about coolant. Even if you are...what was the PO using? Mixing? At least a little she sir if there are extra jugs hanging out in the ER.

Granted in most cases it is probably less of an issue than oil...but not all.....
 
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manyboats said:
FF I asked one of my mechanics today and he asked me what was in the engine now? I thought it was green and he said to just use the green. I sensed that if I had said LLC he would have said to use that. He clearly didn't think it mattered much.

Well I stopped at the boat and looked .. whatever it is it's red. It's not the green stuff so it must be LLC of some kind. I looked at some LLC AF that had special capabilities fot Cat engines. Do you think any of these SCAs would be undesireable in my little Mitsu? Or maybe I should flush it all out and just use green. ?? The simplistic approach would be to just find some red LLC and use it.
Click to expand...

I am sure if the green stuff (which is cheaper) can work in the hot south west or the freezing cold of the arctic, then it will work in you boat......just say 'in:nonono:
 
Fudge! Firefox died and I lost my post..... :banghead:

Try again.

Every diesel engine I have owned required diesel rated coolant to prevent cavitation which can eat a hole in the cylinder wall. The diesel rated coolant has additives to prevent cavitation.

Color of coolant:
Coolant color is not a reliable indicator of coolant chemistry.

My Ford diesel came with a GOLD colored coolant that was rated for five years before needing a change. After the first change, the coolant is to be changed every three years. The previous Ford diesel rated coolant was GREEN but had to be changed more often. My JD tractor has a Yanmar engine that came with a GREEN coolant but the coolant was the same chemistry as the Ford GOLD coolant. I have used the JD GREEN coolant for years in both the JD/Yanmar and Ford engines.

I could mix the Ford GOLD and JD GREEN coolant because they are the same chemistry. You should NOT mix the JD GREEN and FORD GREEN coolant because they were different chemistry.

Coolant color is not a reliable indicator of coolant chemistry.

We have a well for water which is very hard with iron and manganese. This stuff is a pain to clean up on the water fixtures and I suspect it would eventually close off coolant passages in an engine. Not Good. :nonono: When we lived in the city, the water was likely not hard but I don't know for sure, but the idea of putting water loaded with chlorine in the engine did not seem like a good idea. I have done it in the past with gas engines but my diesels I was planning to keep for decades which I have done. The minimal cost of premixed coolant was a who cares.

I use premixed coolant as a result. It also is easier adding makeup coolant when required since the coolant is correctly mixed.

Later,
Dan
 
dannc said:
I use premixed coolant as a result. It also is easier adding makeup coolant when required since the coolant is correctly mixed.

Later,
Dan
Click to expand...

Best advice of the thread right there!!!
 
Good posts worth reading all.

I mix my AF coolant for two reasons.

1. It's much cheaper.
2. 50-50 mix is too much AF for this area. I mix 40-60. From what I read and hear that's optimum for heat transfer, corrosion and all other things considered. BMW recommends that ratio in their MC manuals. Taking care of my MC is what led me to the 50-50 isn't ideal theory or philosophy.
But I know my mixing isn't perfect and I shoot for a little more AF so I'm probably very close to 50-50 so I suppose using prediluted isn't a bad idea. Is the water in prediluted unquestionably distilled?

FF I may have a small engine but I run it at at least 50% load. That more than most on the forum .. probably yourself as well.
Thanks very much for the links. I'll take a look tonight .. headed for the boat via Starbucks. I have several gallons of the ELL AF so I'll probably use that. I think I better change the trans cooler and I'm in the middle of several other jobs as well.

I do realize AF colors aren't to be depended upon but as far as I know green is always the old fashioned basic AF. Maybe that's not true either now. I think the jelling problem mixing LL w the old green is a thing of the past but seemingly knowledgeable people talk like it's still a problem .. is it?
 
Lehman 120 coolant draining

BruceK said:
Before start up for the day.
Lehman 120 owners with original tank fillers (and probably original caps), if you constantly lose overflow coolant, new tank caps may fix it. Springs and seals deteriorate.
Click to expand...

Bruce (and other Ford Lehman 120 owners),

We drained the coolant from the heat exchanger yesterday (because we had to get at the belt, but that is another story; good opportunity to make sure we are on top of the coolant situation; we are still learning). The manual said there is a petcock on the engine block, with instructions like, "at the lower port center of the engine block." There is some kind of protrusion there on our engine but not a petcock.

Is there such a petcock? Clearly we have not gotten all the coolant and want to as what we drained is looking a little funky. I'm reading here about flushing the coolant so I will look on the forum further, about that process.

Thanks,
Michelle Hale
Pavane
Juneau, Alaska
 
I may have answered my question. I found this on another thread:

"Quote:
Originally Posted by LaBomba View Post
Mine is the same Marin except it goes to the hot water tank as well before going to the exhaust.
Our starboard engine (FL120) as a hose connection on the port side of the block for the engine coolant (NOT raw water) to go to the hot water heater located in the aft head. The return from this loop re-enters the engine in another location but to be honest I haven't checked exactly where it is.

But our boat does not use the raw (salt) water cooling system to heat the hot water heater. Most of the boats I am familiar with use the same basic setup as ours, using engine coolant to heat the hot water heater.

PS-- I should probably add that the port engine has the same connection on the port side of the block. However this is fitted with a petcock only for draining the engine's coolant. The starboard engine also has the petcock fitting but it's on the end of the hot water heater hose "T" fitting that's screwed into the block."

I think we need to follow that hose going to the hot water heater ... it must connect to the engine block and that must be where we need to go to drain it. Sound right?

Thanks,
Michelle
Pavane
Juneau, Alaska.
 
Pavane wrote;
"There is some kind of protrusion there on our engine but not a petcock."

Is the "some kind of protrusion" look like a pipe plug? That's probably the drain. I've got that except on the stbd side and aft. I need to remove the plug and install a valve w a hose barb outboard. Then I can connect to an extractor (oil changer) and extract the coolant w/o dumping it into the bilge. I consider that a plus.
 
manyboats said:
I need to remove the plug and install a valve w a hose barb outboard. Then I can connect to an extractor (oil changer) and extract the coolant w/o dumping it into the bilge. I consider that a plus.
Click to expand...

Now THAT is a great idea. It is on my to-do list for the next coolant change. Thanks :thumb:
 
Larry I was kinda miffed the marineizer didn't provide that. Maybe if I had bought a Vetus or Westerbeke haha. But then I'd have an aluminum manifold. Klassen has been great in all other respects!

I actually found a SS ball valve in my garage this morning w the right size threads. Don't know if the SS is OK corrosion wise. Brass is probably the usual but my plug and the oil sender fittings are all steel (std pipe fittings). The two ports (AF drain and oil pressure) are too close but I think I can squeeze them in. I could always add a couple of fittings and side step the oil stuff. A 90, a nipple and another 90 but it may be easy to break it off then. Make'um really short.
 
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manyboats said:
...
But I know my mixing isn't perfect and I shoot for a little more AF so I'm probably very close to 50-50 so I suppose using prediluted isn't a bad idea. Is the water in prediluted unquestionably distilled?
Click to expand...

The JD coolant I use is "demineralized" but I have no idea what other brands do. I would be a shocked if a big brand like Ford, Prestone, etc use water with minerals in their premix.

Later,
Dan
 
Larry I just did it. Sucked out 2.5 gallons real quick and easy.

I closed the cap on the top of the manifold and when I took out the plug and only about 1/2 a cupfull came out into the bilge. A very small amount but it came out quickly. I had to remove the lever of the valve as it didn't clear the bell housing while screwing it in. Reinstalling it was a bit tricky but successful. I'm going to flush at least twice. What is this talk about "two part flush"? Do I need that? Probably not so I'm going to start w reg flush.

Dannc,
OK but are you shocked when you find out the bottled "Mountian Spring" drinking water you buy is from "tap" water. I'd be at least supprised if a big brand did that too .. but not shocked. I've heard locally here in Concrete Wash state that people have pumped water straight out of the Skagit River for marketing bottled drinking water.
 
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manyboats said:
Larry I just did it. Sucked out 2.5 gallons real quick and easy.
...
Dannc,
OK but are you shocked when you find out the bottled "Mountian Spring" drinking water you buy is from "tap" water. I'd be at least supprised if a big brand did that too .. but not shocked. I've heard locally here in Concrete Wash state that people have pumped water straight out of the Skagit River for marketing bottled drinking water.
Click to expand...

Not shocked at all about bottled water. What shocks me about bottle water is that people buy it. :eek::D For bottled water, you have to read the fine print and not the water name or brand to see where the water is from. I think "spring" water can be from a well not from a flow of water at the surface like many think of a spring. Since I am on a well, I can send you gallons of "spring" water. :lol: We do have a real spring on the place but I don't think I would drink out of it unless I absolutely had too! :eek::rofl:

What gives water its taste is minerals. Coke's bottled water is tap water that is treated to provide a common taste across bottling plants. Course, part of the treatment is adding minerals for that tastes.

Some places you need to buy bottle water to have safe and/or decent tasting water but I don't understand the US mass consumption of bottled water. I was shocked when bottled water came out and people started buying it.

Later,
Dan
 
No kidding! People pay more per gallon for bottled water than they pay for gasoline or diesel fuel. Amazing!

We have a reverse osmosis system at home for cooking and drinking water just b/c it tastes better. It's also what we use on the boat for drinking water for pennies per gallon.

All my batteries get distilled water. My coolants are premixed, but occasionally I have mixed 50% with tap water with no harmful effects.

In 7 years, I have never had to top off my coolant between servicings. I don't have recovery bottles, but am considering adding them. I recently serviced the coolant and must have overfilled it b/c I'm getting some out of the port engine into the drip pan. A recovery bottle would prevent that.

Engine: Perkins 4.236
 
The purpose of the recovery bottle in cars is to allow the cooling system to get rid of any air in the coolant.

This allows the mfg to use about a 25% smaller radiator , saving big bucks on a million cars a year.

On a boat the coolant tank does this air removal job , nothing extra needed.
 
Petcock on engine block

manyboats said:
Pavane wrote;
"There is some kind of protrusion there on our engine but not a petcock."

Is the "some kind of protrusion" look like a pipe plug? That's probably the drain. I've got that except on the stbd side and aft. I need to remove the plug and install a valve w a hose barb outboard. Then I can connect to an extractor (oil changer) and extract the coolant w/o dumping it into the bilge. I consider that a plus.
Click to expand...

We've taken a couple of pictures. The first is taken from within the engine room, of what must be the referred to petcock on the port side of the engine block. We were looking for it lower on the engine. The second is taken from above after we open the petcock slightly, clearly showing the antifreeze. If we drain through the petcock, do we drain through the top of it where you can see the AF?

The hose to the water heater is attached to this petcock valve. I suppose an alternative to draining through the petcock would be to find the low spot on the hose to the water heater and drain through that. :confused: So much to learn! But we are having a blast and expanding our knowledge daily. Thanks for all of the advice and help.

Michelle
 
pics

Clearly need to expand my knowledge beyond the engine room and figure out how to add photos.

OK, this photo is taken from above the engine.
 

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And this photo from within the engine room

This is the "first photo" referred to in the first posting I did today.
 

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Michelle,
Somebody w a Lehman engine will know better than me. The lower fittings and hose probably are the feed for the hot water tank and/or bus heater. I have a similar arrangement w ball valves that I can turn off. It looks like the upper fittings and hose is to the expansion tank that has air in it's top. This is probably your accessory coolant return.

I'd look and see if you can find something else that is your AF drain. It seems very odd to me to use the drain port for an accessory supply. I'm trying to study your picture and see if the lower port has a valve. If so you can close it and remove the hose ... then the valve there will serve as a drain valve.

But of course any plumbing that has a low spot will retain some coolant.

You should probably disregard this as this plumbing is probably typical of Lehman engine installations.
 
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That is where my engine feeds the hot water heater and seems to be a low point....however, coolant doesn't completely drain from there in my experience.

I also would support that short piece of pipe. If that is your typical cheapo copper nippke, there may not be mush metal there to fatigue with that hose leverage and any vibration.

May be OK, but looks scary to me.
 
Thanks, Eric and pssneeld,

We brought the engine book home and I found the enclosed diagram showing where the hot water heater hookup is, and it is the same spot that we located on the engine. pssneeld: We will look at the support of these hoses and make sure we feel comfortable with them. Thanks for the tip.

Once we drain the antifreeze and add a couple of rounds of flush water, I'm trying to figure out whether we need to save all of that water to bring to our household hazardous waste event. Our engine holds 5 gallons of coolant, so we are talking about a lot of mostly water to haul in as hazardous waste. At some point do you feel comfortable discharging the water overboard, or as a matter of routine do you just bring it all in as hazardous waste?

Thanks again for the advice for such a novice at all of this.

Michelle
 

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Not overboard...but in several places I have lived, green type antifreeze in household quantities were OK to flush down the toilet into a city system (not septic).

Seems like that is old news because of "possible other contaminants"....so I would take the drained antifreeze to someplace that accepts it...the flush wster...well.... I probably would.:D
 
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