Teak Top Rails - To Cetol or Not Cetol

Greetings,
Holy crapola. 60 posts!. Mr. Cheech. Scrape to smooth wood, sand and put on more coats of Cetol than last time. You'll be fine.

manyboats said:

OK so someomne else says it dosn't mildew. Do you actually think Tung oil dosn't mildew?

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Mine hasn't in 6 months.....

Why are only some experts OK on TF and not others?

expert=previous drop of water under high pressure being forced through a small orifice.

"This is the ideal product to use on collector grade stocks and other wood products. Tung oil builds quickly, consolidates the wood surface and builds a transparent matte finish. Pure Tung Oil finish will not mildew or bleed like linseed oil when dry, which makes it an excellent candidate for outdoor finishes. "

Pure Tung Oil


Pure Tung Oil ( all natural 100% pure tung oil ):
Tung Oil is an all-natural, non-toxic, food safe wood finish, containing NO VOC's. Pure Tung Oil is a natural polymerizing wood finish with a nutty odor and contains no thinners, driers or any additives. Pure and Simple! This Tung Oil is Grade 1 yellow, clear in color, water and alcohol resistant, will not darken, and will never peel or crack. Tung Oil provides a durable protective barrier against water, stain resistant, food acid resistant, mar resistant and a flexible wood finish that will not mold.


http://www.thefurnitureconnoisseur.com/Pure-Tung-Oil-Finish.html


Pure Tung Oil Features

• High environmental standards
• 100% VOC free
• 100% chemical free
• FDA approved for food contact
• Organic and all natural
• Hand rubbed
• Naturally polymerizing finish
• Cures by oxidation not evaporation
• Does not form a glossy finish no matter the number of coats
• Form a flexible water proof finish
• Resists abrasion and acids
• Does not blister and peel (properly applied)
• Does not mold like linseed oil
• Does not darken with time like linseed oil

http://www.jmxbamboo.com/tung-oil.aspx




Need more??????

In my frustrated search for the product requiring the least maintenance, I tried several commercially packaged teak oils on the market. At least here in Florida, I think it may be too hot for successful oil applications. The heat tends to make the oil weep and the sure footedness that one enjoys with teak is all but compromised. Twice I've had major spills of used motor oil that soaked into my natural teak veranda sole for weeks while away from the boat. In both cases, the oil stains weeped out over about 8 to 10 months and it was again clean. Now, after having scraped and sanded everything, I'm getting ready to do the Cetol treatment on my rail cap, steps and trim. For the veranda sole, I'm going to try sealer only. It doesn't require the labor that varnish or Cetol requires, but will probably require a light power-wash and reseal twice per year.

PSNeeld: I think the issue with using pure ting oil on a teak caprail might be the amount of time required between coats. The Canadian woodworking article you referenced stated:

"Getting good results requires using the right techniques and not being in a hurry. I would allow at least a week between coats, although I have heard of people doing it faster with good results. There are many other finishes better suited to a tight schedule; varnishes, lacquers, and even BLO."


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

psneeld I quote one of your links ...
"Tung Oil provides a durable protective barrier against water, stain resistant, food acid resistant, mar resistant and a flexible wood finish that will not mold. Pure Tung Oil is a durable all natural wood finish, and perfect for interior wood surfaces such as wood floors, cabinets, paneling, wood furniture and children's toys."
But they only recommend it for interior applications probably because it will turn black w mold if used outside. Children's toys is not the subject matter here.

Thanks for the interesting links though.

healhustler said:

In my frustrated search for the product requiring the least maintenance, I tried several commercially packaged teak oils on the market. At least here in Florida, I think it may be too hot for successful oil applications. The heat tends to make the oil weep and the sure footedness that one enjoys with teak is all but compromised. Twice I've had major spills of used motor oil that soaked into my natural teak veranda sole for weeks while away from the boat. In both cases, the oil stains weeped out over about 8 to 10 months and it was again clean. Now, after having scraped and sanded everything, I'm getting ready to do the Cetol treatment on my rail cap, steps and trim. For the veranda sole, I'm going to try sealer only. It doesn't require the labor that varnish or Cetol requires, but will probably require a light power-wash and reseal twice per year.

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I can highly recommend Epithanes Wood Finish for your sole. That's what we put on the teak and oak (yep turned out it was oak) aft deck of our Hatteras, as well as the stairway to the flying bridge and it stood up to tremendous abuse from footsteps, furniture, fresh and salt water, sunshine, spills, you name it. Very easy to apply as you don't have to sand between coats. We used the gloss o the aft deck, others prefer the satin, which we did use on various interior stairs from salon to galley. I read some of the posts on this thread and just shake my head at what people go through in application and maintenance.

manyboats said:

psneeld I quote one of your links ...
"Tung Oil provides a durable protective barrier against water, stain resistant, food acid resistant, mar resistant and a flexible wood finish that will not mold. Pure Tung Oil is a durable all natural wood finish, and perfect for interior wood surfaces such as wood floors, cabinets, paneling, wood furniture and children's toys."
But they only recommend it for interior applications probably because it will turn black w mold if used outside. Children's toys is not the subject matter here.

Thanks for the interesting links though.

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Where does it say not recommended for exterior? Not in any links I provided. Most say how good it is.

Psneeld I have a pint of "100% Pure Tung Oil" in a metal rectangular can and it says "for INTERIOR USE" .... Like that. Your link dosn't say "not for exterior use" either but they are not talking about boats and it seems obvious to me why not. Much was said about floors, tables and children's furniture but no exterior use was mentioned. Tung oil is a tree oil like linseed oil so I don't see why it should behave any differently in this regard but I really don't know. I've never used Tung oil other than as an ingredient of varnish. I've used Linseed oil both ways and of course it turns black if given enough time.

I never did put the raw LO on straight though as it's rather thick. Turpentine aids brush ability and reduces the tendency of LO turning black or dark because it's a natural fungicide. And I used LO and turp for several years applying more every 4 to 6 weeks. I suspect that it stayed bright because the turp kept the fungus in check. But I've never used Tung oil this way. Perhaps someone else has?

Read carefully..the links all refer to exterior use..Including the history of tung oil all the way back to ancient Chinese junks.

You can keep denying it but I am sitting and looking at my unmildewed rails reading numerous links that agree.

Just want others to know...who they believe is up to them.

From my first link....

Myth #3
BLO is just like tung oil, but better and cheaper.
Sorry, but that’s wrong too. Comparing BLO (boiled linseed oil) to (pure) tung oil is like comparing apples to oranges. So let’s look at both:

Notice where the writer disagrees with you..just like me.

I have actually used pure tung oil on the exterior where you say you have not.

Guess what?

I don't need to read carefully. I have no intention of using teak oil on my boat other than as part of a varnish. If I ever have a reason to really know I'll dig back into it. I do recall though that there was a thread dealing w just Tung oil as a boat finish. If you want to argue about this go find someone that's more motivated. In the meantime I'm going to assume Tung oil turns black over time much the way LO does.

For the record...my rails don't look bristol and I don't care.

My boat is one or two steps up from work boat finish as I go through a 5 year major refit while cruising 4 to 5 months a year covering 2500 miles each year.

I take care of her by myself with no help or cash to pay someone.

Someday either all the wood will disappear or what little is left might look better.

But for now, time versus looks is critical. Not saying it can't look better, I just don't have the time right now for perfect aesthetics.

While not showboat..it looks better than it has for the last 10 years, 5 with the PO and 5 with me. The tung was a decision where once stripped, the most work is a quick wash and more coats.

Minutes versus hours and weeks. For 75 to 90 percent bristol looks...I will take it.

psneeld I had no idea you were using the stuff.

Here's how my rails looked w the LO and turp in Alaska. The Tung oil probably looks about the same. Do you brush it on or use a rag? With a brush more oil went on and ran down vertical surfaces and I didn't clean the runs very good. Second pic is ready for another coating. Rarely did I let it get that bad. The runs can be clearly seen. Wasn't very fussy in Alaska. Went about unshaven more often too.

First pic entering Red Bay prepared to drop the XYZ anchor.

Post #62

Greetings,
Mr. ps. Ohhhh...we're supposed to read the posts. I thought it was simply note who the poster was and disagree...I'll try that sometime.

RTF.....You QBBL ..you...

Post #62
Opps ....
Sorry I missed that. Actually I remember reading it and for a brief moment thinking "his what"? I know it dosn't make any sense but I missed the essence.

Anyway I'm glad there's an experiment in progress. Don't know any others using Tung oil. So perhaps you don't see it as an experiment since you believe it proven. None the less (whatever that means) I hope you keep us posted. Lots of guys are keen on a solution to the high labor end to varnish. And those w high tech coatings probably could use something more user friendly and cheaper that produces an acceptable finish.

Back to the future for a second. I, like psneeld, am a bit lazy when it comes to trying to fight unwinnable battles, and also used to accepting imperfection, so for mine, exterior teak gets Cetol marine clear, recoated with minimal sanding yearly - works for me.

PS has a point, time is too valuable to me to do the varnish thing 2-3 times a year so I will forgo a "Bristol Finish" (what ever that means) and do clear Cetol once a year maintenance coat after a quick Scotch-Pad buff and move on with life.

My rails get 4-6 hours a year of my time, the rest of the wood about the same so one weekend a year and that's enough.

If I win the Lotto then things might be different but until then Cetol is my choice for my location.

SCOTTEDAVIS,
A point yes but what is the best Ballance of work and play. And more important than that is the value of each. With the right attitude work will be more rewarding and satisfying than play. My wife knows more about that than I do.

In m
Home built aircraft there's a lot of builders that rarely fly them .. 98% of the experience is building and there are many that do fly and spend a lot more than the average trawler owner on maintance .. and enjoy it.

Way too many people in this culture don't think their time is valuable unless the're playing. A world of playboys it seems. It's supposed to be part of growing up but many don't make it. I think Marin knows the joy of meaningful and satisfying work. Too many here are just focused on play. By the way I'm on my way to WORK on the boat. Haha but at the moment I'm at Starbucks playing ... hmmm.

As to the cap rail if you want to maximize play time the door's open to paint, aluminum, FG or ???

that pretty well sums it up...slackers....

Some people wax and polish their 4x4 pickups regularly, and even nurse them over the bump at the end of the driveway...ours goes down overgrown and decommissioned logging roads, because it's a 4x4!

Our boat has a workboat heritage, and it shows. Like Eric said earlier, it's so infrequently hot and sunny here on BC's north coast that we'd rather get out and enjoy it than do chores.

Having said that, I do scuff away at the loose Cetol flakes once in a while with the intention of coming to a decision next year, or the year after, or the year after that...

MurrayM said:

Some people wax and polish their 4x4 pickups regularly, and even nurse them over the bump at the end of the driveway...ours goes down overgrown and decommissioned logging roads, because it's a 4x4!

Our boat has a workboat heritage, and it shows. Like Eric said earlier, it's so infrequently hot and sunny here on BC's north coast that we'd rather get out and enjoy it than do chores.

Having said that, I do scuff away at the loose Cetol flakes once in a while with the intention of coming to a decision next year, or the year after, or the year after that...

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Don't give up hope Murray. After a few years enough will flake off so there is less to sand and scrape. Took mine a while too. Then I sanded and properly varnished. Now I slop on a few coats of Epifanes in the spring and fall and all is good. It can even be touched up well with Epifanes fastcoat.

My Land Cruiser also has natures pin striping, but I do wash it a few times a year...

Good point manyboats, however I am putoff by your post and wonder if others will be as well, you see I work 2 jobs one as an RN working nights 2-3 nights a week working 12+ hour night shifts plus as a working boat captain while also maintaining 4 boats to a ready go now status.

I will completely enjoy the 8-10 hours a week that I get to relax. I will be dammed if you or any other retired person with all week to do "meaningful work" make me feel bad for finding a way to do what works for me.

I'm not a rich man so to me and my peers "meaningful work" means I get paid for it. I am 53 so not retired, I am still in the rat race, no pension, no trust fund.

This is not a rant for those of you are retired, hey you earned it as I hope to do someday. I am over the top happy happy for those of you living the dream however I worry if it will still be possible for others (us) in the future.

Manyboats remember we are not all from the same "age and stage" here please keep that in mind.

Regards,

Capt, Scott Davis. RN, Paramedic, ALS certified, USAF Firefighter 1980-1985, Fl. Certified Building Contractor, Private Pilot, Building Inspector, and worn out tired SOB hoping to someday retire or die trying (well that's a given).

What good point? If making the best birdhouse in the world, revered by all was done on the job for which you got paid or for your backyard because you are retired....what the heck is the difference?


If you are the best in the world at something...my guess that is pretty rewarding.


If I wish to tung oil my hand rails because they are less important than my leisure or professional birdhouse building....then so be it...


Good point? Hardly....it was just an opinion and a pretty judgmental one at that...or at least terribly one sided.


Hard work is just as admirable as hard play....no one gets to make the call either way.

Greetings,
Mr. S. Well said (post #86). I guess your work load was the reason we didn't see anybody around Firefly when we stopped in at Loggerheads/Vero this past spring. Boat looked good. I REALLY like the name...
I'm retired and I really wish somebody could give me those "playboy" lessons. Mr. mb maybe?

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. S. Well said (post #86). I guess your work load was the reason we didn't see anybody around Firefly when we stopped in at Loggerheads/Vero this past spring. Boat looked good. I REALLY like the name...
I'm retired and I really wish somebody could give me those "playboy" lessons. Mr. mb maybe?

Click to expand...

Thank you sir, yes indeed being a part of living here the snowbird season is indeed work time for us.

Would have loved to to have a heads up next time. We really take to showing off our town and I would have loved to buy you a cold one.

Next time, promise?!!

S

OK I'll buy that ..... it was a little judgmental.

My point was supposed to be the work to do the varnish is like money to spend. If you enjoy it or have the potential to with the right attitude a chore could become a joy or even play. But if one really does hate work the varnish should be farmed out or changed to paint.

But there must be some "slackers" (as PS says) because there's a lot of complaining here about the work of varnish. In Alaska they don't whine .... they just buy aluminum boats .. old skiffs if your low on bucks. As to those putting in too many hours working .. you've made your choice. If you haven't got time to maintain the boat perhaps it was the wrong choice. Or you may be happy cruising w a boat that looks like a work boat.

As for my boat it's leaning toward the work boat look. Definitely not "Bristol".