cappy208
Guru
And your wallet.
Some people assume because they can afford the largest boat in the anchorage that equates they are capable of efficiently and safely operating it.
Don't confuse wallet size with ability. They aren't connected!
Single Hander Boat Size
- Thread starter Kes
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
And your wallet.
Some people assume because they can afford the largest boat in the anchorage that equates they are capable of efficiently and safely operating it.
Don't confuse wallet size with ability. They aren't connected!
Nice, but you don't have to have pods to have that same joystick control.
An interesting development with Sea Ray recently. They/Brunswick pushes Zeus pods. Now, Sea Ray has introduced a new line, their L Class, the L590 and L650, 59' and 65' as one might guess. The 59 comes with triple zeus. The 65 comes with twin straight drives but also has joysticks available with both bow and stern thrusters incorporated. Plus optional docking stations. The 59, with pods, has a bow thruster as an option. Essentially every docking convenience of the 590 is also incorporated into the 650. So when we think joystick, it's not just pods. We have joysticks on a non-pod boat.
Note that because they use Zeus and obviously don't use any IPS they don't have as much horsepower available so it would take 4 pods for the 650.
Some of the long time captains see joysticks and think of them as an unneeded toy. But after using them a while they do quickly see the benefit.
That said, pods are an excellent choice for a boat under 50'. The negative is purchase price. Service on them was a drawback as they were just penetrating the market but there are enough out there now that in the US service shouldn't be an issue. I'd say the same in Europe. South America it could be.
Sorry for posting and then running off, the weekend was quite busy!
Such great information and many thanks to you all. The wisdom of this board always amazes me.
I've become really interested in the Krogens. I look at the 39 and see that it would make what I think would be a great loop boat for a single hander. Given the issues with all the locks and potential for causing damage to someone else's boat (let alone MY boat), a solid 39 with thrusters seemed manageable for the Loop. After researching Loop boats, it seems and most of them fall into that 32-38 category and it made me think twice about a KK44 which I think would be an excellent boat for this islands. I'm pretty sure I only have one shot at the boat of my dreams and I really want to make sure to get it right.
If I had my druthers, I think I would choose the KK44 for the creature comforts and space, so the question now becomes: Is the KK44 to big for the Loop?
*EDIT*
I thought I should add that, among other things, I'm drawn to the full displacement hull of the Krogens and the GPH that it brings to the table. Fuel economy will always be an issue and I just don't need to go fast.
Such great information and many thanks to you all. The wisdom of this board always amazes me.
I've become really interested in the Krogens. I look at the 39 and see that it would make what I think would be a great loop boat for a single hander. Given the issues with all the locks and potential for causing damage to someone else's boat (let alone MY boat), a solid 39 with thrusters seemed manageable for the Loop. After researching Loop boats, it seems and most of them fall into that 32-38 category and it made me think twice about a KK44 which I think would be an excellent boat for this islands. I'm pretty sure I only have one shot at the boat of my dreams and I really want to make sure to get it right.
If I had my druthers, I think I would choose the KK44 for the creature comforts and space, so the question now becomes: Is the KK44 to big for the Loop?
*EDIT*
I thought I should add that, among other things, I'm drawn to the full displacement hull of the Krogens and the GPH that it brings to the table. Fuel economy will always be an issue and I just don't need to go fast.
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CPseudonym
Moderator Emeritus
5 foot itus. At least you contracted it before you contracted the boat, it's cheaper that way.
caltexflanc
Guru
I know of some folks who did the loop in a 70' Hatteras MY. Plenty of 50+ footers as well. And of course huge 300 foot by 50+ foot barge tows. Bridge clearance is the main spec.
It's a very personal choice, to be sure, but 39 ft seems like plenty of room for one. Have you been on any of the boats you are considering yet? I see you using the term "seems" a lot. Why not charter a few and get direct experience?
I don't understand the obsession with size as a factor for cruising the islands. I see large size as a limiting factor, not necessarily a positive factor.
It's a very personal choice, to be sure, but 39 ft seems like plenty of room for one. Have you been on any of the boats you are considering yet? I see you using the term "seems" a lot. Why not charter a few and get direct experience?
I don't understand the obsession with size as a factor for cruising the islands. I see large size as a limiting factor, not necessarily a positive factor.
Bay Pelican
Moderator Emeritus
Both the Krogen 39 and the 44 work well in the Islands. Actually along with the 42 these are the most often see trawlers in the eastern Caribbean. A close second are the Nordhavn 46s. As for the Great Loop they will work but as you suggested thrusters would be an excellent idea. If you are SH on the loop suggest you have a back up camera as the view to the rear may be less than desirable if operating from the pilot house.This is important when docking and also when cruising the narrow rivers and canals both inland and ICW.
FF
Guru
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To run the loop or jump out to the Bahamas a 50-60 ft would be fine , if you want to have 4-10 guests.
For one person a 25 ft anything , like a Bayliner I-O would be just fine.
Under $10K to purchase , a snap to single hand and maintain and perhaps a zero $ round trip, the purchase price vs the sales price.
A small 20K+ boat does fine at trawler crawl speeds , as the gas engine doesn't suffer at idle as a diesel will.
With 95% less to scrub , it should be a vacation , instead of a chore.
For one person a 25 ft anything , like a Bayliner I-O would be just fine.
Under $10K to purchase , a snap to single hand and maintain and perhaps a zero $ round trip, the purchase price vs the sales price.
A small 20K+ boat does fine at trawler crawl speeds , as the gas engine doesn't suffer at idle as a diesel will.
With 95% less to scrub , it should be a vacation , instead of a chore.
No, not at all. I'm very early into the learning process and have a few things working against me. First, I'm in Southern Illinois and have very little access to getting to see many different boats. Second, I know precious little about cruising and cruising boats. My experience with boats is limited to small ski boats, a 285 Crownline and 22' pontoons on local lakes. I tried to get over to Graffton by St. Louis when the loopers were coming through but just wasn't able to make it happen.
Right now I guess you could just say I am in the "Asking Questions" stage. I have soooo much to learn. As I progress and learn more, I'll spend some time chartering and viewing different boats. The whole thing is fascinating and overwhelming at the same time.
Brooksie
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I always singlehand my 36' Willard, docks, locks, anchoring, launching dinghy. No thrusters. I have had no problems but would not want (or need) it any larger.
What has been said b/4 about being set-up for singlehanding is important. Fendering either side quickly in a lock, cutting away your anchor and motoring off from a bad anchorage, using pre-rigged spring lines, quickly come to mind
What has been said b/4 about being set-up for singlehanding is important. Fendering either side quickly in a lock, cutting away your anchor and motoring off from a bad anchorage, using pre-rigged spring lines, quickly come to mind
Donsan
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Do you mean I am not the only one who doesn't understand FF speak?
CPseudonym
Moderator Emeritus
Bay Pelican
Moderator Emeritus
Love it.
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Well played, Craig!! You dug deep into the archives to find that one! Was that HH's work?
CPseudonym
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I miss Anode! Must be out there really enjoying his boat!! What a beaut!
Retriever
Senior Member
I've single handed the Inside Passage a couple of times (and am about to do it again, except this time with a side trip to Haida Gwaii). My Nordic Tug 37 is a single engine with bow thruster and is super easy to run by myself. Here are a few things that make it easy...
-Pilothouse doors on both sides
-Bow thruster
-Modest freeboard, so I can easily step onto the dock from the boat right from the pilothouse door.
-Engine room hatches in pilothouse floor. I can shoot temperatures and visually check the engine room and still glance ahead every 15 seconds.
-Practice. I run the boat ~700 hours a year
-Small enough that I only need 3 fenders on each side
One tip: I've learned to NOT attach a bow line when docking. Too many people grab it and tie it off at exactly the wrong time. Doing this with a midships line or stern line isn't too big a deal...a bow line, though, makes it impossible for me to control the stern. I actually prefer no help on the dock, unless the wind is blowing me off the dock at a pretty significant velocity.
Safety is a huge concern. I worry about falling overboard and watching the boat drive away. Therefore, I don't leave the interior of the boat unless it is in neutral or the engine is turned off. When I do venture outside (if I'm not at anchor) I wear a life jacket with a VHF, PLB, and flares. When I'm in the dinghy I always wear the kill switch and my life jacket (and they recently saved me).
The situation that is particularly difficult to handle alone is getting away from the dock when the wind is pinning the boat onto the dock. Spring lines make it easy, but it's difficult to get the springs aboard fast enough and then get to the helm before the boat gets pinned to the dock again. I'm talking 25+ knots of wind, so not that common a situation. Twins would help here...
-Pilothouse doors on both sides
-Bow thruster
-Modest freeboard, so I can easily step onto the dock from the boat right from the pilothouse door.
-Engine room hatches in pilothouse floor. I can shoot temperatures and visually check the engine room and still glance ahead every 15 seconds.
-Practice. I run the boat ~700 hours a year
-Small enough that I only need 3 fenders on each side
One tip: I've learned to NOT attach a bow line when docking. Too many people grab it and tie it off at exactly the wrong time. Doing this with a midships line or stern line isn't too big a deal...a bow line, though, makes it impossible for me to control the stern. I actually prefer no help on the dock, unless the wind is blowing me off the dock at a pretty significant velocity.
Safety is a huge concern. I worry about falling overboard and watching the boat drive away. Therefore, I don't leave the interior of the boat unless it is in neutral or the engine is turned off. When I do venture outside (if I'm not at anchor) I wear a life jacket with a VHF, PLB, and flares. When I'm in the dinghy I always wear the kill switch and my life jacket (and they recently saved me).
The situation that is particularly difficult to handle alone is getting away from the dock when the wind is pinning the boat onto the dock. Spring lines make it easy, but it's difficult to get the springs aboard fast enough and then get to the helm before the boat gets pinned to the dock again. I'm talking 25+ knots of wind, so not that common a situation. Twins would help here...
BerettaRacer
Senior Member
I'm thinking along the same lines as the OP, a lot of single handing, trips up and down the east coast, with possibilities of the entire loop someday.
Right now my balance of boat, which is the largest I think I can singlehand, the smallest I want to liveaboard, and within my budget (OK I'm putting my flame suit on for all the heat I'm going to get for this) is one of the 1990-1999 SeaRay 500 Sundancers.
Going for the larger format single level boat, I think will be easier to manage over a smaller multi level trawler style. Longer and wider yes, but less windage and no stairs. Bowthruster mandatory, along with remotes for the windlass. Will have to see about stern thruster. Biggest issue now is downsizing the ancient, unreliable, fuel guzzeling Detroit 6V92's that are in most of them, and repowering with possibly either Cummins 6BTA's or Cat 3208's or similar.
Yes, I know, the hull is inefficient above about 10 knots, but thats the whole point, It's for cruising the speed regulated intracoastal. It's got a 15' beam and 4'draft, so put the little engines in, kick back, relax and enjoy retirement, LOL.
Right now my balance of boat, which is the largest I think I can singlehand, the smallest I want to liveaboard, and within my budget (OK I'm putting my flame suit on for all the heat I'm going to get for this) is one of the 1990-1999 SeaRay 500 Sundancers.
Going for the larger format single level boat, I think will be easier to manage over a smaller multi level trawler style. Longer and wider yes, but less windage and no stairs. Bowthruster mandatory, along with remotes for the windlass. Will have to see about stern thruster. Biggest issue now is downsizing the ancient, unreliable, fuel guzzeling Detroit 6V92's that are in most of them, and repowering with possibly either Cummins 6BTA's or Cat 3208's or similar.
Yes, I know, the hull is inefficient above about 10 knots, but thats the whole point, It's for cruising the speed regulated intracoastal. It's got a 15' beam and 4'draft, so put the little engines in, kick back, relax and enjoy retirement, LOL.
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BerettaRacer
Senior Member
Some good points here.
I like the "no bow line" approach.
As for walking around underway, I've been thinking about some "proximity switch" arrangement. Set at what ever works for you, say 25-30' from the helm. This would allow walk around without a dingy style kill switch tether, but still kill the engines in event of a fall ovbd, possibly set up with a panic kill button also.
In my arsenal of toys I have an older, high end ACR strobe that I clip on if might be usefull. Last year I also picked up ACR's top of the line, floating, personal worldwide EPIRB, and thats either on my person or velcro'd nearby. It was actually bought because I was doing some solo skiing in the Alps, with boating as backup use to justify (and tax right-off, work related safety gear) the expense.
caltexflanc
Guru
You obviously need to do a whole lot more real research and less attention to internet urban legends.
BerettaRacer
Senior Member
Clue me in???
caltexflanc
Guru
Your comments on the 6v92s were a dead giveaway.
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Ok so you do a bunch of boat designing and operating, why a Sea Ray??? If I were doing a total re-engineering job on a boat, I would maybe go with something different....Maybe a sailboat hull if you obviously aren't interested in speed. I think you are overthinking it....is all George might have been trying to say. That or tell us what you are thinking and why the choice of a Sea Ray of that vintage.....cost?
ranger58sb
Guru
What's access to sidedeck and foredeck like on those?
I'd have thought repowering like that wouldn't pay for itself unless you keep it for years and put a bazillion gallons of fuel through it?
A dock neighbor repowered a gas Bertram with 6BTs and it cost him about $100K (although that also included a diesel genset). Another dock neighbor repowered a gas Mainship with Volvo 480s, and he said that cost about $92K... and that included his business discounts.
-Chris
I can't get my mind around the concept of buying a boat to make it into an entirely different boat that it just wasn't designed to be. The strength of a Sundancer is a good planing hull, solid boat, able to cruise at decent speeds. Seems your desire is displacement hull, less engine and speed. And the makeover will certainly take away all market value as a Sea Ray buyer would never consider it and a buyer for it won't consider because it's a Sea Ray.
Wxx3
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I think there is a significant difference between the 44 & 39 in terms of comfort and utility, with the 44 winning hands down.
I don't think there would be a significant difference between them in single handing.
I've ended up single handing a lot in the last two years and locks are the biggest challenge.
Preparation beforehand is key. I'll have my midship lines already prepared with the loop in the line hanging on the hand rail outside the open pilot house door.
Both pilot house doors are always latched open for any docking no matter how many hands are available.
I almost froze to death the other night.
I will be going thru the Netherlands canals for the next three weeks. I'll have another person with me. If I was alone, I would not do it, but I'd go on the outside, North Sea.
I've never docked from the fly bridge, but then I don't drive from up there either.
Montenido
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Hi folks,
This is such great information. I was just about to post asking the same question about single handing. I single hand my 44' sailboat regularly, and I can get in and out of most places. A bow thruster would be a welcome addition for sure. I am considering a trawler of 40-46' in the near future, so the comments that have been written so far are a great help to me. I will check sightlines fore and aft, and deck access from the steering stations.
Thanks again, there is always so much to learn from you all.
Cheers, Bill
This is such great information. I was just about to post asking the same question about single handing. I single hand my 44' sailboat regularly, and I can get in and out of most places. A bow thruster would be a welcome addition for sure. I am considering a trawler of 40-46' in the near future, so the comments that have been written so far are a great help to me. I will check sightlines fore and aft, and deck access from the steering stations.
Thanks again, there is always so much to learn from you all.
Cheers, Bill
