Fresh water flush - separate tank

HopCar said:

Just so we're clear, HopCar does sell Raritan toilets, also Jabsco and Groco.
My boat is equipped with a Groco K.


This thread has really gone off the tracks.

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I think is has gone in the toilet

HOLLYWOOD

HeadMistress said:

One more time: It is safe to connect any toilet to the potable water system that is designed by the mfr to use pressurized fresh water.

Therefore, if your Raritan toilets are designed to use pressurized fresh water, your system is safe whether the water pump is on and the system is pressurized or not.

Y'all need to spend a lot MORE time on the water and a LOT less at your computers!

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Thanks - that answered my question as well - being concerned about when the pressure was off. I have a Raritan PHEII that the PO disconnected the motor to. We use it in the "empty" mode only - using a small bucket of water from the sink. One of these days it will be traded out for a Raritan Marine Elegance. I want to tap into the pressure water under the sink. But several of the local experts insist I need to run a separate line, preferably from a separate FW tank. (I have 3). I would prefer the easy, KISS method if it is safe.

The Marine Elegance comes in three flush types, raw water flush, pressurized fresh water flush, and one that allows you to select raw or fresh. The fresh water only is the least expensive as it doesn't need an intake pump. No dedicated tank needed either.

Having finally got through all the posts, it rather looks like Peggy needs no defence from us moderators, as that appears to have been taken care of by happy recipients of her advice. So, thanks for that guys, and I guess the moral to this story is read carefully, and only carry a very light stick - until you are absolutely sure of your position, at least…

Thank you Peggy.

Peter B said:

Having finally got through all the posts, it rather looks like Peggy needs no defence from us moderators, as that appears to have been taken care of by happy recipients of her advice. So, thanks for that guys, and I guess the moral to this story is read carefully, and only carry a very light stick - until you are absolutely sure of your position, at least…

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I'm absolutely sure of my position...which is that she plugs new equipment to the exclusion of adapting older hardware...new Raritan products in particular. She just said so herself. It's easy to parrot what the OEMs say...not so easy to show a little inventiveness and actual engineering savvy. As for technical advice, there are old threads where she's been flat wrong about design and regulations. She's been caught out by Rick B and others. Read the files. By the way, Hopcar, I believe there are guidelines regarding Commercial posters advertising their product line on the site.

skidgear said:

she plugs new equipment to the exclusion of adapting older hardware...Raritan in particular.

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I don't understand why you seem to think that's a bad thing.

-Chris

SCOTTEDAVIS said:

No thanks, Peggy has a clue, I'll trust her expertise thank you very much. No cobbling water systems to the crap systems for me.

May I recommend, perhaps bottled water for you.

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Care to explain why use of the exact same components used by an OEM to connect an older head to a fresh water system is "cobbled"? "Peggy says so" isn't a technical response.

ranger42c said:

I don't understand why you seem to think that's a bad thing.

-Chris

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I didn't say it's a bad thing. I'm saying it's not the only thing. There are safe and relatively inexpensive alternatives to using OEM hardware for the hookup. Peggy says alternatives are a bad thing. Why? Raritan used to have a "how to" procedure on their web site to do exactly what I and others are talking about. They removed it when they started marketing fresh water heads and their own kits to swap old heads to fresh water flush. What an amazing coincidence.

Phyrcooler said:

Thanks - that answered my question as well - being concerned about when the pressure was off. I have a Raritan PHEII that the PO disconnected the motor to. We use it in the "empty" mode only - using a small bucket of water from the sink. One of these days it will be traded out for a Raritan Marine Elegance. I want to tap into the pressure water under the sink. But several of the local experts insist I need to run a separate line, preferably from a separate FW tank. (I have 3). I would prefer the easy, KISS method if it is safe.

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Why does that answer your question? There's not one bit of technical rationale in her response.

skidgear said:

I didn't say it's a bad thing. I'm saying it's not the only thing. There are safe and relatively inexpensive alternatives to using OEM hardware for the hookup. Peggy says alternatives are a bad thing.

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I must have missed that. I must still be missing that. Seemed to me like her posts allowed several alternatives, at several price (and labor) points. The first para (below) sounds pretty much like an alternative to not using complete OEM hardware kits. Subsequently including easier (and still safe) alternatives (and from different manufacturers) seems to me like a reasonable extension of thought.

HeadMistress said:

There's a bit more to toilets designed to use pressurized fresh water than just a check valve...you'd need a back flow preventer (check valve) siphon check valve...if the toilet is electric, a solenoid valve...

There's a much easier way that's SAFE: replace the toilet with one designed to use pressurized fresh water...and there's one for just about every budget:

If you want to stay with a manual toilet, you can...Last year Raritan introduced the first MANUAL toilet designed to use pressurized fresh water--the "Fresh Head" Fresh Head It's available as either a complete toilet or a "conversion"--everything south of the bowl, which allows you to re-use your existing bowl, seat and lid...any bowl that has a + mounting bolt pattern will fit it.

Or swap out your existing raw water electric toilet for one designed to use pressurized fresh water...Jabsco offers their 37xxxx series toilet in both sea water and fresh water versions, as both complete toilets or "conversions" (everything south of the bowl...any bowl that has a + mounting bolt pattern will fit it). Or for about the same price, you can upgrade to a Raritan SeaEra QC SeaEra QC (complete toilet or "conversion" SeaEra Conversion Kit

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HeadMistress said:

The "Fresh Head Retrofit Kit" is the "conversion" (everything south of the bowl) that I included in my first post to this thread. FRESH_HEAD Promo Sheet Neither Jabsco nor any other mfr have something similar because a) any bowl---Groco, Jabsco, W-C, Thetford or any other--that has a + mounting bolt pattern will fit it...and b) I'm fairly certain Raritan has patented it. That shouldn't stop anyone who wants to reinvent the first manual toilet designed to use pressurized flush water from trying though.

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-Chris

Skidgear, I'm aware of the rules concerning advertising on this forum. If I break the rules the Mods will let me know.

skidgear said:

Care to explain why use of the exact same components used by an OEM to connect an older head to a fresh water system is "cobbled"? "Peggy says so" isn't a technical response.

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Sure skid, I'll play the game,

I used the term cobbled together *("to make something or put something together hastily or carelessly") because the components in the discussion were not the exact same ones used by the OEM and you know that.

At one point an RV parts list was shown clearly showing a direct drop toilet mounted on top of the holding tank with no pump at all, this after the individual railed about houses and spaceships and wanting to only talk about boats.

Now if the proper parts were used, say from a manufactured kit that was engineered and designed to work with that same head then that would be fine. But hey, then it wouldn't be cobbling it together either, would it?

The post is responding to someone who spoke of self engineered and adapting parts to work in a layperson theory and while it may work just fine. There was no mention of credentials, design experience or proof of performance just a statement of fact that it all will be fine. I say no thanks, I really don't think it wise to experiment with other folks health.

I offered no alternatives to using an approved head or retrofit kit for one simple reason, it is my opinion that there is none that I consider safe, your mileage may vary.

I bet you would have a problem with the mechanics that worked on the next airliner that you and your family fly on, doing some cobbling on a repair and not using approved and inspected parts, correct?

Many of PS's posts I find educational, that he has vast knowledge and experience there is no doubt, but like all of us he can sometimes be wrong not only with his opinions but his stated facts.

This forum allows a place to share options, ideas, questions and opinions and often a good laugh. I think unsafe suggestions should be challenged, that is of course my opinion.

Now skid, I know you are a smart guy and if you read all the posts in the thread you certainty could /would have deduced this so I ask, what was the motivation for your question ?

Regards,



*cobble together - Idioms by The Free Dictionary

None of my projects are hastily or carelessly put together.

Most involves hours of research, consultation with other "experts", and basically copying what is sold to consumers at a lower cost as I am the assembly labor and shipping in many cases.

If I do take a calculated risk on something, I either add additional safeguards or it falls under others I have I place.

Like ABYC standards...other professional organizations don't always agree with them...some even insist on higher standards or lower when the world has been getting by with less just fine.

Cobbled together? Sure in an emergency...but none of my slip holder engineered (like backyard but for liveaboards ) projects are not well thought out.

It easy to assume a lot about posts on the internet.....

As I posted, PM me if you get as tired as I do here sometimes....sure I can be wrong....but I work very hard at trying not to be.

I like the phrase "cobbled together".
I use it often.
Not the same meaning as "jerry rigged".
That said I like my cobbled together converted Jabsco head. I didn't use Raritan components, I bought commercial versions of the same components. It has been working great for 7 years now.

HopCar said:

Skidgear, I'm aware of the rules concerning advertising on this forum. If I break the rules the Mods will let me know.

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You're fine!

jleonard said:

I like the phrase "cobbled together".
I use it often.
Not the same meaning as "jerry rigged".
That said I like my cobbled together converted Jabsco head. I didn't use Raritan components, I bought commercial versions of the same components. It has been working great for 7 years now.

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Probably better, longer lasting, and less expensive except for brain power used in the "assembly".