Late model trawler, cruising and operating expenses

Dubnuh said:

Hello all,
It was recommended in my boat search thread that I truly consider the cost of operating and maintaining a larger trawler. Here are my numbers, and peramaters given the intended boat being on the horizon:
52' single engine, FD hull.

Maintenance: $8,000-$16,000
1-2% of new boat cost (seems that many avg. 1.1% of new, $8,800)

...am I even on the ballpark?

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Maintenance is the area I'd suggest a bit more work. Now many things need to talked about first. Single engine you say. What about generator? Watermaker?

Then on maintenance, it's not just the routine expenses, it's the major ones. Many budget based on routine and find themselves in trouble when they need to rebuild or replace an engine. Location will somewhat determine the frequency of bottom cleaning and of bottom painting.

Now so much depends on what you do yourself and where you are, but here are some numbers is our area for a boat that size. Hauling $520. Pressure cleaning $210, Blocking $210. There are some marinas that won't allow divers to clean so you'd incur that cost each time.

Again, in our area you need to clean a bottom monthly.

Now to bottom painting, $2,100 - $3,000 for a boat that size. Obviously if you do it yourself much less but don't forget to add in yard time.

I would probably budget $3000-4000 per year toward engine rebuilds. If you have a generator maybe $1500 a year toward rebuilds.

On a boat that size you may well be talking stabilizers and thrusters and they cost to maintain. $1000 a year to maintain a watermaker.

And then painting your deck, replacing teak if any, redoing your interior.

Considering all factors and doing no work myself, I calculated about $33,000 per year for a similarly sized boat. Regardless, just make sure each year you're saving for the "Big One."

Here is a calculator you might try just for fun. Now, it's really designed for boats 80' and up so it's accuracy on smaller boats is not great, but a fun exercise.

https://luxyachts.com/management/operatingcostcalculator

Well I must be a real cheap S.O.B.... I own two boats, an MT 34 DC and a Bayliner 2750 and I spend less than 10k a year, and yes, we go out almost every weekend. Yes we get winter here - and we store indoors (not heated).

How do we do it?

We bought the boats cheap and fixed them up. Found the cheapest marina, outside of town. Do most of the work ourselves. Horse trade, swap services, and use independent guys for anything we can't do.

Would I like a 40' luxury vessel? Sure! But I like my savings account more

SeaMoose said:

Well I must be a real cheap S.O.B.... I own two boats, an MT 34 DC and a Bayliner 2750 and I spend less than 10k a year, and yes, we go out almost every weekend. Yes we get winter here - and we store indoors (not heated).

How do we do it?

We bought the boats cheap and fixed them up. Found the cheapest marina, outside of town. Do most of the work ourselves. Horse trade, swap services, and use independent guys for anything we can't do.

Would I like a 40' luxury vessel? Sure! But I like my savings account more

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How much do you spend on bottom painting and how frequently? I assume you do that yourself too.

Then the big question. What will an engine rebuild cost you?

Year to year one will spend less, but it's those years of major work that change things significantly. Still sounds like you're doing well.

Do I include upkeep on the helicopters as part of the boat maintenance, or should I track it separately?


We are comfortable with a rough idea, can we afford to do this or not. We keep impeccable maintenance records, but not financial ones. It is what it is.

I set up a column in my bookkeeping for "Boat Expenses". But I never fill it in. It costs what it costs.

BruceK said:

I set up a column in my bookkeeping for "Boat Expenses". But I never fill it in. It costs what it costs.

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The day I fill mine in is the day she lists for sale. I have no desire to know beyond a rough and optimistic guess.

I was starting to think we were the only ones who didn't track costs.

My problem is that my Admiral wants to know but I don't, and I know if she finds out then she'll remind me constantly.

"I was starting to think we were the only ones who didn't track costs."

I don't track costs , only "Bonus Jobs" (repairs) and

"Honey Do " ,,,,,,for she who must be obeyed!

We have a separate "cruising" bank account, into which our monthly cruising budget is deposited. This is expected to cover marina's, fuel, food and running repairs. We set aside money separately for haul outs and other large scheduled maintenance, including eventual heat exchanger replacement etc. This way (hopefully) a large repair will not affect our cruising budget. We tend to give each other lots of boat related presents just for the hell of it, which is kinda cheating....

This is an interesting and somewhat amuzing thread to me.

To the op. Unless you buy a total piece of junk I think your buget is more than you will need. Is it possible that the engine, generator, windless, and fridge will all die in the same year? Yes, but not likely. I would kill for that kind of a budget. You mentioned that you were thinking of a 37 footer. I can give you my experience with a 36. We bought an old MT 36 with lots of deffered maintenance. We paid $20K for the boat and then put another $30K in the boat over the next 3 years. Had we bought a $50K boat we would not have needed that much of a refit cost.

I know that the way we did it is not for everyone (some don't like to work on boats), but it was the right way for me. This may come from my construction and mechanical background and that I like to work with my hands. I now know my boat inside and out and now there is nothing that I feel uncomfortable tackling.

Everyones buget is driven by four things. Available funds, time, desired comfort level, and their ability/skillset.

We track but just because it's my nature, not to make any changes based on what we see. We do it just like all other bank accounts and expenses, both personal and business. We like to know our costs, but we're not going to change our lifestyle as a result.

READY2GO said:

This is an interesting and somewhat amuzing thread to me.

To the op. Unless you buy a total piece of junk I think your buget is more than you will need. Is it possible that the engine, generator, windless, and fridge will all die in the same year? Yes, but not likely. I would kill for that kind of a budget. You mentioned that you were thinking of a 37 footer. I can give you my experience with a 36. We bought an old MT 36 with lots of deffered maintenance. We paid $20K for the boat and then put another $30K in the boat over the next 3 years. Had we bought a $50K boat we would not have needed that much of a refit cost.

I know that the way we did it is not for everyone (some don't like to work on boats), but it was the right way for me. This may come from my construction and mechanical background and that I like to work with my hands. I now know my boat inside and out and now there is nothing that I feel uncomfortable tackling.

Everyones buget is driven by four things. Available funds, time, desired comfort level, and their ability/skillset.

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We have taken a similar path. I find it fun and rewarding, but no way I'm gonna put down on paper what I've spent Fortunately my partner doesn't want to know either


BTW, I really enjoy your blog...

dhmeissner said:

We have taken a similar path. I find it fun and rewarding, but no way I'm gonna put down on paper what I've spent Fortunately my partner doesn't want to know either

BTW, I really enjoy your blog...

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Thanks, and I don't want to know either, but my obsession with numbers makes me.

One thing I find interesting is a lot of people talk about boat maintenance like it is so much worse than that of a dirt house. I don't agree with that. If you buy a 40 year old house (the age of my boat) you will have a lot of maintemance (been there don that) new roof, new A/C, lots of plumbing and electrical issues, and the list goes on and on. I think people are just more famillar with those so they are not as intimidating.

READY2GO said:

One thing I find interesting is a lot of people talk about boat maintenance like it is so much worse than that of a dirt house. I don't agree with that. If you buy a 40 year old house (the age of my boat) you will have a lot of maintemance (been there don that) new roof, new A/C, lots of plumbing and electrical issues, and the list goes on and on. I think people are just more famillar with those so they are not as intimidating.

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Combine house and car to compare. Now still one more element, you'd have to drop them in water...lol.

Seriously though, while our boats are more expensive to maintain, our house is far from free. And when we bought our current house, it was "used" as are most houses sold, and the cost of renovation was far more than any single amount we've ever spent repairing or upgrading a boat. Now we didn't have to spend that any more than one has to upgrade their boat.

READY2GO said:

Thanks, and I don't want to know either, but my obsession with numbers makes me.
.

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Guess that's me too. But we budget everything. Perhaps it comes with a business background and owning businesses but we budget our house expenses, our boat expenses, our personal expenses. Actually I'd call them more projections than budgets though as we don't hold ourselves accountable and don't panic when we're off. However, we like having an idea of how much we're going to spend in a year and where we'll stand at the end of it. We look at the results every month just as we do our business. We don't spend much time doing so, but it's interesting sometimes.

CPseudonym said:

The day I fill mine in is the day she lists for sale. I have no desire to know beyond a rough and optimistic guess.

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Like you, I track with a faulty memory and not a ledger.

Britannia said:

My logic precisely - which is why I'll be moving aboard in the fall

Richard

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My fundamental is that it replaces a cottage, or is a mobile version of one. So 30 grand a year isn't so bad, and you do get an extended "family".

If you are blessed with living in a place like Vancouver as I do, a boat is obligatory or you may have a serious cognitive issue - the BC coast in summer and grandkids aboard is the interface of paradise.

What a beautiful boat! Love it!

TDunn said:

This year my 1936 woodie will cost me about the following:

Winter storage (includes haul, pressure launch, inside storage and launch - $2,600

Summer Marina cost (June 1 to Oct 30) - $3,584

Insurance - $600

Registration - $85

Annual maintenance (repaint topsides, trim, and bottom, two coats varnish on all external wood, 6 coats varnish on all interior wood, replace three planks, recaulk as needed) - $400

New house battery and an additional solar panel (includes installation of solar panel) - $210

Fuel for 200 hours underway - $200

Oil and filter changes - $70

Total - $7,849 or about $39 per hour underway. Note that I will spend about 75 days on board this summer (it would be more, but I also have a sail boat I don't want to neglect).

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READY2GO said:

This is an interesting and somewhat amuzing thread to me.

To the op. Unless you buy a total piece of junk I think your buget is more than you will need. Is it possible that the engine, generator, windless, and fridge will all die in the same year? Yes, but not likely. I would kill for that kind of a budget. You mentioned that you were thinking of a 37 footer. I can give you my experience with a 36. We bought an old MT 36 with lots of deffered maintenance. We paid $20K for the boat and then put another $30K in the boat over the next 3 years. Had we bought a $50K boat we would not have needed that much of a refit cost.

I know that the way we did it is not for everyone (some don't like to work on boats), but it was the right way for me. This may come from my construction and mechanical background and that I like to work with my hands. I now know my boat inside and out and now there is nothing that I feel uncomfortable tackling.

Everyones budget is driven by four things. Available funds, time, desired comfort level, and their ability/skillset.

Click to expand...

Hi READY2GO,
This thread was in response to a question asked in my other thread about locating the 'unicorn boat' -a passagemaker w three staterooms that was less than $350K. The comment was made that I should consider the operating expenses of said boat, and so I did.

This exercise was assuming a 52' boat.

Here's the other thread: http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/can-you-help-locate-boat-20174.html

I've just started reading your blog.

-Dubnuh

Dubnuh said:

Hi READY2GO,
This thread was in response to a question asked in my other thread about locating the 'unicorn boat' -a passagemaker w three staterooms that was less than $350K. The comment was made that I should consider the operating expenses of said boat, and so I did.

This exercise was assuming a 52' boat.

Here's the other thread: http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/can-you-help-locate-boat-20174.html

I've just started reading your blog.

-Dubnuh

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Dubnuh,

I don't know if your budget would work for a 52 footer or not. That is a lot of boat. I will leave that opinion to those with that size of vessel.

I had heard a rule of thumb for sailboats back when I was a sailor that as a general rule when you lengthen the LOA by 25% you double the size (volume) of the boat. I don't know if that rule holds as true for a trawler as it does for a sailboat, but if it does then a 45 footer would be double the size of my 36. Although a lot of the maintenance items double such a paint some others don't. Lots of 44s have the same engine as me. You still need the same number of chart plotters, radars, radios, ect ect. So some costs will be the same, some will double, and some will be marginally more.

As far as what is the best boat. I think the one that allows you the most time and enjoyment on the water is the best one. What good is a "10" boat if it takes you another 15 years to afford it, and once you have it you can not afford to go anywhere with it. I will take a "6" that I can enjoy NOW and travel NOW.

Just my $ .02

Enjoy the blog, but I have been working in LA for the last 3 months and probably have another 2 or 3 to go before I get back to the boat, so not many new posts lately. That will change as soon as I get back cause now I got some boat bucks.

I was pretty nervous the whole first year I had my boat. I tend to be impulsive, and wouldn't consider myself an expert on managing finances. I was always a little worried that I was over extended. Every time I pulled into the fuel dock I had a nagging 'can I really afford this' feeling.

I decided one day that I was feeling a little too good, so I added up everything I could remember for the first year. All told with payments, insurance, dockage, repairs, fuel, etc... I spent about 15k. As predicted, that number made me a little seasick. Easy come, easy go, I suppose. Anyway, she'll be paid off in a year and that number should go down by 1/3, and I honestly can't think of anything I would rather have spent the money on. Dammit, I work hard, and I deserve this!

It really has been worth it.