Waked in San Augustine

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Mule

Mule

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Florita Ann
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This morning at 0800 a commercial boat apparently a tour boat or party fishing boat sent a massive wake through the mooring field in front of the San Augistine city Marina. He was trying...successfully to beat the Bridge of Lions draw bridge. No one really seemed to know if there is a recourse with the Coast Guard or the local police. No one was happy with this tur* and frankly if he needs grief.

The bridge tender knows who he is, so there is a record. We're this a trucker on the road I would chase him down and have a discussion with his company safety man. Not possible here.

I am having a hard time letting this go, I want a piece of him, I want to hurt him professionally, any suggestions?
 
I think the best recourse, if you really feel it's necessary, is get the company name from the bridge tender and call the company. If they're a reputable company, they don't want their Captains pissing off the locals (just like a trucking company). If there was actual damage to any boats, you could call your insurance company and let them go after the offending company..Otherwise, you can always remember, that in any walk of life there are those types...centered in their "me" universe.
 
That was probably the same guy who waked me there a month ago.
 
Try being anchored off an island near Stonington, Maine, when the lobster boat fleet heads out at 5 a.m. It goes with the territory.
 
I have to say that getting waked on the ICW near bridges seems to be a popular thing these days. Sometimes it's because they are trying to make the opening like you noted above, but sometimes it's when they come down off full throttle just as they pass the "idle speed" signs before the bridge, right at the spot you have selected to wait patiently for the next opening. You see it coming and you know you're really going to get it, and so do they.
 
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dwhatty said:
Try being anchored off an island near Stonington, Maine, when the lobster boat fleet heads out at 5 a.m. It goes with the territory.
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I guess it does go with the territory to some extent.....but when a professional licensed captain does it, he has something to lose and it is up to the public to make law enforcement make him change his habits.
 
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Mule said:
I guess it does go with the territory to some extent.....but when a professional licensed captain does it, he has something to lose and it is up to the public to make law enforcement make him change his habits.
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Yes he has something to loose, but unless he was in a no wake zone he is not in violation of any statute or navigation rule.

As far as the damage to boats or their contents, or even people again unless he was in a no wake zone he has zero libality.

While I feel for you, and I've been caught by suprise by large wakes myself, there is really no recourse in a situation like this.
 
This is common at the town marina in St Augustine. The fish boats (AND YACHTS) come out of the San Sebastian river and try to make " the opening". Not saying its right, just a fact of life. Big tidal current makes for interesting bridge interactions.
 
War Story

We arrived first south bound at the Sunset Island Swing Bridge. We were clearly visible with the tide behind us. Several large SeaRay Sundancers started gathering on the north bound side of the bridge. It was some kind of brand cruise. As the bridge started to open, I got in position to go through. But, no. The first SeaRay started through with me backing against the current to get out of his way. As soon as he cleared the fenders he turned it on throwing a huge wake. The rest were close behind, and did the same thing.

After the washing machine calmed down we went through. I just got on the radio, and said, "that's why we just love SeaRays". Then I said, "be alert, they are headed north.
 
Well, Don...at least you've got the boat to wake them back.
 
What's the law over there..? Over here in Aus, within 30 metres of any moored or anchored boat is meant to be a no-wake zone.
 
Moonstruck said:
We arrived first south bound at the Sunset Island Swing Bridge. We were clearly visible with the tide behind us. Several large SeaRay Sundancers started gathering on the north bound side of the bridge. It was some kind of brand cruise. As the bridge started to open, I got in position to go through. But, no. The first SeaRay started through with me backing against the current to get out of his way. As soon as he cleared the fenders he turned it on throwing a huge wake. The rest were close behind, and did the same thing.

After the washing machine calmed down we went through. I just got on the radio, and said, "that's why we just love SeaRays". Then I said, "be alert, they are headed north.
Click to expand...

Suggestion .........
Securite, Securite, Securite, All mariners take heed. Several large Sea Rays (name of boats) driving in a dangerous manner southbound at Sunset Island swing bridge.
 
"I am having a hard time letting this go, I want a piece of him, I want to hurt him professionally, any suggestions?"

No surprise there! Would not his head on a Pike be your usual demand?

Next you will want the pilots license for making noise on take off when you anchor under a flight path!!

Wakes that cause DAMAGE might be a case,

but a wake that only discomforts is hardly cause for any action.

Maybe your coffee got spilled ,need a dime for replacement?

As wakes are sorta common on boats , if the stove is mounted along the hull, Gymbols are the centuries old solution. Our 50'fter has and needs them.

With a range along a bulkhead , fast foot work should keep from being scalded.
 
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Mule said:
I am having a hard time letting this go, I want a piece of him, I want to hurt him professionally, any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Wifey B: Let it go. See...it's like this..he caused you a little tiny bit of discomfort. You ruminating over it though has caused you much grief. Not worth it.

And the worst worst worst spots for wakes on the ICW, especially for home owners, is just at the border of no wake zones. The boats goin one way slowin down and waking you and the ones going the other way rising up on plane.

Glad the area by us is a minimum wake, not a no wake.
 
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In the past I've found that when I carry something (feelings of anger, revenge, etc) with me the only person it hurts is ME.

We all have choices about the way we respond to any situation. The other guy doesn't know about your hurt feelings and, if he did, he may not even care.

My suggestion is to relieve your burden, get rid of your anger, put on your big boy undies and go on with your life. We all get waked at times and if that's the worst thing that happened to you that day when you were out on the boat enjoying a cruise, then your day came off pretty nice.

Just saying.....
 
Mule, if you sustained injury or damage make a call to the local Coast Guard base, ask to speak to the OOD they will respond to document damages. Be prepared for a inspection of your boat when they visit.
Years ago while on the loop we where waked by a US Coast Guard cutter in the Carolina's ICW and had phsical damage which they documented. Worse part was the E-6 captain of the cutter was on a training mission for new boat crew members and was ordered to return to our location and eat crow over the incident. My Admiral cut him no slack in front of his crew, I bet he and the crew will remember that wake for ever !
 
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This high-speed boat gave me the worst wake ever, with water entering the stern deck due to severe roll. This occurred when the boat passed from the stern about 100 feet away. I wasn't paying enough attention to take evasive action to reduce the wake's effect. On the boat's return (when picture was taken), I was prepared, turning into the wake and moving the throttle to idle!


 
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Well, FF, always...ALWAYS my adversary , even when I am RIGHT on OTDE, now here. WE, yes WE got him. Yesterday afternoon the Harbormaster of the Marina summoned the owner of the commercial boat(s) responsible. He (owner) tried to make excuses as any good boss would. But have no fear the pilots had a come to Jesus meeting over this one. This was not just a wake....it was a violent assault, dangerous and had the potential to deal out serious injury. Few,if any, were prepared for it as you would be underway.

THe harbormaster invited him (owner) over for coffee between 0745 and 0815 to see for himself. Seems the occupied boats in the mooring field gave the Harbormaster the what for. Harbormaster told me it had been an ongoing problem with this company for some time. The Harbormaster is very influential in San Augustine, bet he knows all of the water cops... A concentrated effort targeting this company by officials could REALLY hurt their business. A safety inspection could be drawn out to an hour...each DAY.

I did not put his head on the end of a Pike... He did it himself.

Some things in life, I feel, are too blatant to just shrug and "let go" without at least an attempt for retribution. If all just "let it go" there would never be a change in behavior. I had my ducks in a row before the Harbormaster took over the battle, I gladly cede the battle to him. He has more arrows in his quiver.
 
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ksanders said:
Yes he has something to loose, but unless he was in a no wake zone he is not in violation of any statute or navigation rule.

As far as the damage to boats or their contents, or even people again unless he was in a no wake zone he has zero libality.

While I feel for you, and I've been caught by suprise by large wakes myself, there is really no recourse in a situation like this.
Click to expand...

And here I thought you were responsible for your own boat wake, anytime anywhere...
 
Mule said:
Well, FF, always...ALWAYS my adversary , even when I am RIGHT on OTDE, now here. WE, yes WE got him. Yesterday afternoon the Harbormaster of the Marina summoned the owner of the commercial boat(s) responsible. He (owner) tried to make excuses as any good boss would. But have no fear the pilots had a come to Jesus meeting over this one. This was not just a wake....it was a violent assault, dangerous and had the potential to deal out serious injury. Few,if any, were prepared for it as you would be underway.

THe harbormaster invited him (owner) over for coffee between 0745 and 0815 to see for himself. Seems the occupied boats in the mooring field gave the Harbormaster the what for. Harbormaster told me it had been an ongoing problem with this company for some time. The Harbormaster is very influential in San Augustine, bet he knows all of the water cops... A concentrated effort targeting this company by officials could REALLY hurt their business. A safety inspection could be drawn out to an hour...each DAY.

I did not put his head on the end of a Pike... He did it himself.

Some things in life, I feel, are too blatant to just shrug and "let go" without at least an attempt for retribution. If all just "let it go" there would never be a change in behavior. I had my ducks in a row before the Harbormaster took over the battle, I gladly cede the battle to him. He has more arrows in his quiver.
Click to expand...


While you miight feel vindicated, the reality is that if the owner decided to treat your area as a no wake zone, if in fact it is not, he was just being nice. He has no requirement to go at no wake speed, and coffee with the local harbormaster won't change that.

I would suggest you and the other boat owners be very thankful that the owner is operating his boats in a manner you prefer, because if he is treated in a "we gotcha way" he can easily and legally speed up again.

I think that your local harbormaster probably nicely requested that he slow down, and the owner probably very nicely agreed but again that does not carry the force of law.
 
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roguewave said:
And here I thought you were responsible for your own boat wake, anytime anywhere...
Click to expand...

Only to a point....the USCG will tell you it will be left up to a Maritime hearing and both parties are responsible for good seamanship.

Wakes are made by boats and travel great distances sometimes...into no wake zones even when the boat complied by slowing well outside the zone. Not being prepared for "some wakes" isn't going to get you anyplace sometimes.

USCG FAQs on Wake Damage
10. What are the regulations concerning wake effects, wake damage, and responsibility? Regarding one's wake, vessels over 1600 Gross Tons (GT) are specifically required by Title 33 CFR 164.11 to set the vessel's speed with consideration for...the damage that might be caused by the vessel's wake. Further, there may be State or local laws which specifically address "wake" for the waters in question.

While vessels under 1600 GT are not specifically required to manage their speed in regards to wake, they are still required to operate in a prudent matter which does not endanger life, limb, or property (46 USC 2302). Nor do the Navigation Rules exonerate any vessel from the consequences of neglect (Rule 2), which, among other things, could be unsafe speeds (Rule 6), improper lookout (Rule 5), or completely ignoring your responsibilities as prescribed by the Navigation Rules.

As to whether or not a particular vessel is responsible for the damage it creates is a question of law and fact that is best left to the Courts. For more information, contact your local Marine Patrol or State Boating Law Administrator.
 
psneeld said:
Only to a point....the USCG will tell you it will be left up to a Maritime hearing and both parties are responsible for good seamanship.

Wakes are made by boats and travel great distances sometimes...into no wake zones even when the boat complied by slowing well outside the zone. Not being prepared for "some wakes" isn't going to get you anyplace sometimes.

USCG FAQs on Wake Damage
10. What are the regulations concerning wake effects, wake damage, and responsibility? Regarding one's wake, vessels over 1600 Gross Tons (GT) are specifically required by Title 33 CFR 164.11 to set the vessel's speed with consideration for...the damage that might be caused by the vessel's wake. Further, there may be State or local laws which specifically address "wake" for the waters in question.

While vessels under 1600 GT are not specifically required to manage their speed in regards to wake, they are still required to operate in a prudent matter which does not endanger life, limb, or property (46 USC 2302). Nor do the Navigation Rules exonerate any vessel from the consequences of neglect (Rule 2), which, among other things, could be unsafe speeds (Rule 6), improper lookout (Rule 5), or completely ignoring your responsibilities as prescribed by the Navigation Rules.

As to whether or not a particular vessel is responsible for the damage it creates is a question of law and fact that is best left to the Courts. For more information, contact your local Marine Patrol or State Boating Law Administrator.
Click to expand...

Yes, the "you are always responsible for your own wake" theory as taught in boater education classes is probably the most often mis quoted and mis understood part of boating.
 
ksanders said:
Yes, the "you are always responsible for your own wake" theory as taught in boater education classes is probably the most often mis quoted and mis understood part of boating.
Click to expand...


One of the issues is..."always responsible" shows up in local/state boating training and probably is in quite a few waterside town laws.

The trick is...most people in towns and local law enforcement are pretty clueless in my experience. Not to take away from the good ones...but when push comes to shove in local courts and the expert witnesses show up...there's a whole new "sheriff" in town. Tough for locals to negate hundreds of years of maritime law and what the USCG basically puts forth.

I spoke to one of the local maritime police about an incident concerning a charter boat operating in my neck of the woods...when I clearly explained all the rules of the road...and provided a copy of the appropriate passages....the conehead fisherman anchored in the middle of a busy channel to the inlet sure didn't have much support when he complained about the charter boats wake. Even the local marine PD seemed pretty impressed by how well the NavRules protect the professional mariner when they act like one.
 
Even in not-posted-no-wake zones, speed limits effectively impose the no-wake requirement. Further, speed limits needn't be posted. For instance, in California the speed limit is 5 mph within a float occupied by people or with boats tied up. That's effectively below the no-wake speed of many boats.
 
See..that's where the rub is.....


In NJ it is no wake within 200 feet of a dock, pier or warf even when not posted.


The trouble is, are you responsible for your wake if you slowed to 5 mph 300 feet away?


You are and you aren't. If you generated a 5 foot wake that carried into the no wake zone and it ripped docks apart, crashed boats and hurt people...sure you are....


But if you generated a 2 foot wake...that carries 500 feet with the current....and that rocked a bunch of boats and someone on one or getting on/off had difficulty...then I would say the doked boat was less seamanlike than the one that was reasonable and slowed well outside the no wake zone.


The trouble with "thinking" you are rock free in a no wake zone obviously has little marine LE traffic in the area or few rescues where multiple boats blow the no wake zone.


People who spend enough time on the water can clearly see the difference of both sides of the coin...but it does piss you off when it seems beyond reasonable.
 
I think operating the boat "in a prudent manner" is the key. The idiot anchored in the middle of a busy channel while fishing is not operating in a prudent manner. The Sports Fisherman that passed me in a narrow channel, 6 knot zone, and hit me with a five foot wake from less than a boats length away was not operating In a prudent manner either.
 
BlueYonder said:
I think operating the boat "in a prudent manner" is the key. The idiot anchored in the middle of a busy channel while fishing is not operating in a prudent manner. The Sports Fisherman that passed me in a narrow channel, 6 knot zone, and hit me with a five foot wake from less than a boats length away was not operating In a prudent manner either.
Click to expand...

So true...that's why the USCG basically says the only recourse is the law...where facts matter...hopefully the truth is somewhere to be found too.

Opinion can be a funny thing...once the law gets involved...funny how much experience and credibility either does or doesn't count.
 
BlueYonder said:
I think operating the boat "in a prudent manner" is the key. The idiot anchored in the middle of a busy channel while fishing is not operating in a prudent manner. The Sports Fisherman that passed me in a narrow channel, 6 knot zone, and hit me with a five foot wake from less than a boats length away was not operating In a prudent manner either.
Click to expand...

The key is the 6 knot zone you indicated.

Same situation take away the 6 knot speed zone,narrow channel one boat going hull speed, another wanting to pass. Boat passing is going to throw up a large wake, just to get up speed to pass.

Another situation... I'm anchored in a small cove off of a narrow channel. Boats operating in the channel are at whatever speed they choose. Some throw big wakes.

Another situation, similar to the op's. Protected harbor, with no wake zone. Outside no wake zone is a designated anchorage, with some permenantl moorings. No speed restriction there. Boats hit the gas when they leave the no wake zone. Is that operating in prudently ?
 
psneeld said:
So true...that's why the USCG basically says the only recourse is the law...where facts matter...hopefully the truth is somewhere to be found too.

Opinion can be a funny thing...once the law gets involved...funny how much experience and credibility either does or doesn't count.
Click to expand...

And imagine trying to explain to a judge and/or jury. Very few of that type item are ever going to make it to court. When they do, it's two sides, neither of which the jury really likes, fighting over topics the jury knows nothing about with experts testifying for both sides. Then it might all hinge on a judge's attitude or jury instructions.

So best thing any of us can do is be prudent and try to avoid issues. If any do arise, then try to resolve through reasonable and calm discussion.

We're in a no wake except for watersports (single engine vessels under 21' engaged in watersports) area. Makes it interesting. But we're use to it, having lived on a lake.
 
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