For Sale: Nordy 46 for sale

Lifted from the SSCA board , 99.9% sailors with a few offshore marine motorists.

Here is a link , don't know if price is great or ???

https://sites.google.com/site/emilygrace4sale/nordhavn-46-for-sale

Good hunting

People interested in non-brokerage Nordys can check out Welcome to Nordhavn For Sale by Owner - Current Listings - There's another 1990 N46 listed there too.

Richard

Interesting,
Twice the displacement and much more than twice the power of my Willard. Looks to be overpowered and as I recall they came w a 101hp engine.

One of my favorite boats and that seems to be about the right price IMO subject to condition.

That's the original engine - they came with a 143HP Lugger.

It has Naiad stabilizers which I think is a real bonus.

Richard

Brit,
Then the one in Voyaging Under Power was not original.

143hp? Then like most boats it was overpowered. I'm sure it only takes 40hp to cruise that 46. 60hp should be enough but I'm only talking about a true FD hulled boat. And the stabilizers would bump that power requirement to maybe 80hp. Most FD boats can't use more than double their cruise power requirement even in the worst conditions. ... IMO

manyboats said:

Brit,
Then the one in Voyaging Under Power was not original.

143hp? Then like most boats it was overpowered. I'm sure it only takes 40hp to cruise that 46. 60hp should be enough but I'm only talking about a true FD hulled boat. And the stabilizers would bump that power requirement to maybe 80hp. Most FD boats can't use more than double their cruise power requirement even in the worst conditions. ... IMO

Click to expand...

What about over sized alternators too, then reserve HP... I think shes powered just fine.

Almost 12,000 hours on the John Deere. That is amazing.This boat has a lot of miles under it's belt which can be both good and bad. I believe that I would want one a little less used for that money.

manyboats said:

Brit,
Then the one in Voyaging Under Power was not original.

143hp? Then like most boats it was overpowered. I'm sure it only takes 40hp to cruise that 46. 60hp should be enough but I'm only talking about a true FD hulled boat. And the stabilizers would bump that power requirement to maybe 80hp. Most FD boats can't use more than double their cruise power requirement even in the worst conditions. ... IMO

Click to expand...

Interesting - if I run the specs for the N46 through a displacement hull speed calculator I get the result that it takes about 100HP to bring the N46 to its hull speed of 8.3 kt.

Richard

Brit,
Nobody runs a FD boat at hull speed. There's no need to go hull speed and the power to do so is meaningless. Most FD boats usually run one knot below HS and the graph in the VUP book shows a bit over 40hp to run the N46 7 knots. However I am in serious error. I used 30000 lbs disp for my calculations and see 48000 listed in the book. It listed 25hp to drive the 46 6 knots and 46hp for 7. And that's w 48000lbs disp. So double the 7 knot cruise power and that gets us 92hp.

The Book calculates it taking 143hp to drive the vessel at a speed/length ratio of 1.25. That's a little under HS. Willy (my boat) may be capable of HS and maybe not. Every time I run at WOT there is enough current that I'd have to make longer runs and go in both directions to average the speed that would tell. But since I have no need to know I've never done it. What I need to know at WOT is the engine rpm. And I always know that.

So when you say "Interesting - if I run the specs for the N46 through a displacement hull speed calculator I get the result that it takes about 100HP to bring the N46 to its hull speed of 8.3 kt." Exactly correct. But you have no need to go at hull speed.

There may frequently be lots of parasitic load on the main engine.

Hyd pumps for stabelizers and AC cruise generator , Big alts , and belted refrigeration or water maker can add to the fuel burn, and Hp required..

FF said:

Lifted from the SSCA board , 99.9% sailors with a few offshore marine motorists.

Here is a link , don't know if price is great or ???

https://sites.google.com/site/emilygrace4sale/nordhavn-46-for-sale

Good hunting

Click to expand...

This boat is at the Shennecossett Yacht Club where we keep our boat. Let me know if you are coming to see it!

Rob

Manyboats is correct
Rainha Jannota has a LWL 40.2' and displaces 50000#. I cruise with her @ 7.0 Knt with the engina @ 1800 RPM or 50 HP. Calculated HS is 8.5 knt and I need 99.2 HP to achieve it. I have never got there and I have already 413 hours.

My favorite speed is 6.5 knt, 40HP @ 1650 RPM burning 2.2 GPH.
This is WHY I have a trawler

Portuguese

manyboats said:

Nobody runs a FD boat at hull speed. There's no need to go hull speed and the power to do so is meaningless.

Click to expand...

Eric, you cannot use an assumption on your part like the one above for engine calculation.

I would venture to say that more people run at hull speed than you might imagine.

Remember that the driving force for a certain speed for many is not the cost of the fuel, it is the range of the boat at that speed.

For us, we rarely run our boat a knot below hull speed, but we often run at hull speed, or thereabouts. Saving that extra 25% in fuel is not so important, getting to our destination at an increased speed is.

"I would venture to say that more people run at hull speed than you might imagine."

Yup, and there mostly in sail boats going down wind, or on a very broad reach in a 15K breeze.

For most folks cruising at the SQ RT LWL (SL) of 1.34 hardly pays when for a good boat SL x 1.15 takes little longer in a passage and doubles the range.

A poor design may only get SL x .9 at modest fuel burn , if the boat is heavy
(DL over 450) and double ended.

Kevin,
Of course you wouldn't be inclined to run below HS and running at HS is just fine. The reason being that you have a SD hull (actually IMO more like a planing hull) and most skippers w your boat will be running well above HS (10knots?) and could cruise higher depending on power.

Obviously I didn't make it clear enough that my above posts about power requirements were directed strictly at full displacement boats like the N46 or KK42. None of this applies to SD boats ... like most all boats on this forum. The discussion was about the Nordhavn.

SD boats like a GB or even a slower SD boat like a DeFever are subject to a very different set of physics that allows them more speed .. usually considerably more speed. This speed is earned w a large loss in efficiency and seaworthyness. Note that I'm not saying SD boats aren't seaworthy just that generally speaking FD boats are more seaworthy .. and double end boats even more so.

Sorry I didn't make that clear enough.

On the N46 I decently took up the California coast the owner typically cruises the boat at 1550 and burns 1.6/7 @ 6 kts, I wanted to get there and pushed the boat to 1710 and saw 2.3/4 gph @ 7kts. I had a 2.5 day weather window to do a 40hr run from Conception to San Fransisco and didn't want to have the window shut while still outside.
I had the same motor in Volunteer, 6cyl JD, 130hp and ran it @ 1750 for a average fuel burn of 2.2 gph @7.9 kts.

My take on the thing is both boats weigh within a couple 1000lbs but the Nordy is slower as the flat seiner stern on Volunteer really got a push from her stern wave.

also regarding the additional fuel burn the loss of 1/2 kmpg was totally worth getting there and as I wasn't paying for fuel I didn't care... but the other thing was the boat felt so much happier at 7kts and had less roll
(10' 10 sec. wave period according to buoy reports not mine). The JD also seems to really feel and sound happy @ 1700.

The N46 is a great boat, built well, comfy, sturdy,classy,capable.. but a touch slow. No matter that some feel the boat is "overpowered" there are times when you will not regret the extra ponies.

I personally know of a different N46 that had to use all of its main engine hp and all of the wing engine's hp to fight up river in a massive current while doing less than 1/2 knot.. he was wishing for more.

HOLLYWOOD

HOLLYWOOD,
Most want more speed that's why most have SD boats. If an owner finds himself pushing a boat he probably needs a faster boat. And the N46 suffers from a low WLL relative to her OAL. So does my Willard. For those that have the need for speed FD is NOT the way to go.

Also a bigger difference (HP wise) running in a large sea and the calm back waters of where your Willard roams. Not everything is a simple calculation.

Even a clean vs dirty bottom makes a significant difference.


Via iPhone.

hollywood8118 said:

I personally know of a different N46 that had to use all of its main engine hp and all of the wing engine's hp to fight up river in a massive current while doing less than 1/2 knot.. he was wishing for more.

HOLLYWOOD

Click to expand...

I often wonder how my boat will do if I ever get caught in big seas and have to use extra power to keep up with big waves or whatever. I remember getting caught in a strong tidal current next to an inlet and barely making 5 knots. My boat will do 8knots in calm water but not much power left over after that.

Do you need more speed in big seas?

The beauty of the FD hull in big seas is that going slower reduces the power required a lot. That power can then be applied to penetrating wind or picking up speed after being slowed down by a big wave. As you slow more and more power becomes availible.

The notion that one must maintain the pre-selected cruising speed is nonsense. We bucked a strong ebb in Knight Inlet BC and much of the time went only 2 and 3 knots. 3, 4 or so hours were spent like this. Didn't ruin the day and we continued at 2300rpm (normal cruise). If the speed had dropped to one knot Iwould have been looking for a place to throw the lunch hook and take a nap. My navigation style allows me to do things like that. Many here would be very upset having to slow down. Those would be happier w a boat having more speed flexability and range.

I've said this many times before. One does not need much additional power above what is required to drive the boat at a speed/length ratio of about 1.1. I have never used more than 25hp (500rpm down from max) and am powered at 5hp per ton. Five max hp per ton.

hollywood8118 said:

I personally know of a different N46 that had to use all of its main engine hp and all of the wing engine's hp to fight up river in a massive current while doing less than 1/2 knot.. he was wishing for more.

HOLLYWOOD

Click to expand...

And my somewhat rhetorical question would be....what if he had more(hp)???? Would that have helped??? Probably not. What he needed was a different hull shape!!!! And THEN the extra power would have helped!!!

The N46 was one of my first boat loves. I used to know that brochure back to front. She's a classic.

Baker said:

And my somewhat rhetorical question would be....what if he had more(hp)???? Would that have helped??? Probably not. What he needed was a different hull shape!!!! And THEN the extra power would have helped!!!

Click to expand...

Well think of it this way...the boat wouldnt make it without the 27hp of the wing..did the extra hp help?? You bet. I know some here would rather run a boat harder with a smaller hp motor..for a bluewater boat I would rather have a bigger hp motor and run it at less of a load and have more power when needed.
Hollywood

Using the calculator here

Boat Speed Calculator

which is based on Gerr's DL ratio - it gives 66HP for the N46 at 7.3kt (one knot below HS). I have copy of VUP and confirm the numbers given with Bebee's curves. Not sure which are more accurate.

However, I do feel I want the extra HP in a blue water boat. I have already been out in some pretty nasty seas in Stillwater and felt safer being able to increase power without going to WOT. Maybe that's just psychological, or maybe I'm a Spinal Tap fan who wants to know his dial goes to 11 (in case 10 just isn't enough).

Richard

Wayfarer said:

The N46 was one of my first boat loves. I used to know that brochure back to front. She's a classic.

Click to expand...

The N46 was very high on my list before I ended up looking at bigger boats. My KK54 is very similar in many ways - sailboat hull, canoe stern (the N46 almost has one if you look at the hull), raked bow, set back pilot house, asymmetric (starboard) walkway, two speeds - slow and slower.

My boat was built one year before the first N46.

I still like them

Richard

When James Hamilton ordered his N52 he rejected Nordhavn's chosen HP and went up to the next size motor for the exact reasons Hollywood cites.

Having excess motor capability is not a negative in the eyes of many N owners with some preferring wet exhaust, twin engined N55/60s being built to satisfy this urge.

Nordhavn can design and build a faster hull, witness the N57, stretched 47 to the 52 and 55 to the 60 and 63.

Dashew's FPBs have both speed and economy. Currently In build are 4 more 64s, two 78s, 97 just done and a 130 in the final design stages. The 130 has twin Scania 675s and can cruise at 40% power @ 14 knots. All one needs is money to buy speed and economy, kinda like the model T, comes in one color.

The design and quest for speed in the FD ranks is alive and well.

Yes Tom It's urges not needs based on reality. On a SD boat having more power than usually used can be sorta justified ... but not on a FD.

But on a FD boat one at least has the choice of installing power that will permit running at a normal cruising speed and be at least at a 50% load .......... for whatever that's worth.

Don't you think Eric some people need a Nordhavn or Dashew FPB as much as you need Willy? If it weren't for urges, boating and the human race would not exist.

hollywood8118 said:

..for a bluewater boat I would rather have a bigger hp motor and run it at less of a load and have more power when needed.

Click to expand...

That pretty much sums up my philosophy in power boats! I just met a guy 2 weeks ago that has a 48' OA with twin 500 Yanmars. He commissioned the boat in 2005, has put 2,000 hours on it and cruises it at 10 knots. (Goes much faster if the Tuna are off shore!)