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FYI .......

The Ontario Water Resources Act provides for fines up to $50,000 and vessel seizure for discharge of certain materials including fuel, oil, dangerous chemicals and sewage. The Environmental Act, Ontario Regulation 343 states “ Water outlets for the head and/or holding tank must have no physical connection to an overboard discharge valve.

I also think you'll find it is illegal to discharge grey water in Lake Champlain.
 
boatpoker said:
FYI .......

The Ontario Water Resources Act provides for fines up to $50,000 and vessel seizure for discharge of certain materials including fuel, oil, dangerous chemicals and sewage. The Environmental Act, Ontario Regulation 343 states “ Water outlets for the head and/or holding tank must have no physical connection to an overboard discharge valve.

I also think you'll find it is illegal to discharge grey water in Lake Champlain.
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I understand and pretty much agree with most laws limiting or even completely restricting discharge of human black water waste - especially in confined waters. I do not think that grey water such as boat cleaning or dish washing should be restricted as long as detergents used meet "green" requirements/standards; in that their contents are biodegradable. After all, the dirt on boat is same as dirt that hits top of water and I believe that 99.9% of dish-crud is 100% biodegradable foods. That said; if the "pond" being used for boating is considerably small with too many boats partaking, then even biodegradable grey water draining could become a problem
 
I would rather the EPA make the decision rather than anyone for EPA approved devices.

Too many emotion based laws on the books as it is.

If ANY municipality discharges into the waters of an area...why not my approved device?
 
FF said:
"I was surprised at how limited the EPA"No Discharge" list (linked above) was....."

The Fed EPA list may differ greatly from the individual State list.
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The EPA list only includes NDZs on coastal and inland interstate waterways. It does NOT include any of the inland fresh water lakes that are a) entirely INTRAstate, and b) do not connect to any navigable INTERstate waterways...all of which are NDZs.

And btw...federal law trumps state law...as at least 3 states that I know of have learned when their over-reaching state marine sanitation laws were overturned in court. See TITLE 46 , Subtitle I , Subtitle II , Part B , CHAPTER 43 , Sec. 4306. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/46/4306
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction said:
Not that I know of. It was an Aux guy. He told me he could not pass me unless the C/B was safety wired in the close position.
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Sounds like a case of a Coast Guard Aux guy making up his own rules and requiring you to "respect his authoritah".

I believe the New York portion of Lake Champlain is a no discharge zone. No restrictions on grey water. Lake George has grey water restrictions.
 
These rules are just to cause you headaches. Key switches can be turned, safety wire and zip ties can be cut and replaced. This is just plain stupid to require. You cannot legislate morality and people are going to dump if they want to at any dock, anchorage, or while cruising when no one is looking.
 
Art said:
I don't believe it is legal to discharge LectraSan purified black water in Delta freshwaters where we boat, anchor, and swim! That's super fine with me!! We simply don't!!!

I'm not really sure it's even legal in most areas of SF Bay any more??

Our marina in Stockton is strict that there be no kind of black water discharge at all. We fully agree! Really happy to use our sealed-aboard no discharge holding tank for real "Black Water". It's 30 gallons and besides usually free emptying locations at gas docks there are numerous pump out service boats if needed to come empty tanks while on the hook. They'll even put into the tank a spray wand that cleans tank interior sides and then pump it again. Cost $35 to $45.

With special arrangement of very low-flow flush I arranged the tank usually only needs to be emptied 2 to 3 times annually.

Please understand - In our opinion... just like grade school... there is #1 andtra #2 regarding toilet usage. #2 is the real-firm "Black Water", filled with all sorts of nasty. #1 - Well I'll let you make your mind up on the severity of that mellow fluid... and how to handle it!

Happy Marine-Ablutions Daze! - Art
Click to expand...

Art,

I'm confused. Are you saying that the Lectrasan outputs black water?
Or is this a different "black"?
 
Wxx3 said:
Art,

I'm confused. Are you saying that the Lectrasan outputs black water?
Or is this a different "black"?
Click to expand...

Richard - Sorry, don't mean to confuse you. I'll clarify how I feel. And, yes, it is a different "black".

It may be that LectraSan "sanitizes" crap well enough for general open water flushing purposes where dispersion can be considerable.. But, IMO, no matter what is done to it (unless natural filtrations happen via long duration natural processes) crap is still crap... I guess by using LectroSan crap could then be called "Black Water Light".

Would any person bathe in what flushed from a bowel movement that has just been treated by LectroSan process?? Want a drink! I think not.

Therefore, IMHO, black water is black water when you are swimming in it and it is getting into your eyes, ears, and mouth. Yuck! :facepalm:
 
Art said:
Richard - Sorry, don't mean to confuse you. I'll clarify how I feel. And, yes, it is a different "black".

It may be that LectraSan "sanitizes" crap well enough for general open water flushing purposes where dispersion can be considerable.. But, IMO, no matter what is done to it (unless natural filtrations happen via long duration natural processes) crap is still crap... I guess by using LectroSan crap could then be called "Black Water Light".

Would any person bathe in what flushed from a bowel movement that has just been treated by LectroSan process?? Want a drink! I think not.

Therefore, IMHO, black water is black water when you are swimming in it and it is getting into your eyes, ears, and mouth. Yuck! :facepalm:
Click to expand...

Before someone says we're swimming in municipal sewage, one huge difference. Municipal systems are checked daily. There is no practical way for anyone to monitor the operation of your boat system, even if its the fanciest, most expensive chemical or biological system available. I believe the system on our boat does very well, but I do think it's reasonable to use it away from harbors and marinas. Pump outs are more and more available and we regularly run offshore. So, it's just not an issue.

Now, as to locking or twisting the valve or any of the other preventive measures, they're not going to stop those trying to circumvent things, but they will prevent us all from mistakenly dumping something we shouldn't where we shouldn't.
 
BandB said:
Before someone says we're swimming in municipal sewage, one huge difference. Municipal systems are checked daily. There is no practical way for anyone to monitor the operation of your boat system, even if its the fanciest, most expensive chemical or biological system available. I believe the system on our boat does very well, but I do think it's reasonable to use it away from harbors and marinas. Pump outs are more and more available and we regularly run offshore. So, it's just not an issue.

Now, as to locking or twisting the valve or any of the other preventive measures, they're not going to stop those trying to circumvent things, but they will prevent us all from mistakenly dumping something we shouldn't where we shouldn't.
Click to expand...

Locks are simply to help honest people remain as honest people... including locks that are self applied as reminders. Cheats or crooks never let a lock deter them, too much! :ermm:
 
The Electrasan Poop Box chops up the waste into very fine pieces ,

then zaps 50A of DC electric in the claim that chlorine is produced from salt water that will kill pathogens before discharge..
 
And it does it several times for most of each flush ... by design....

Each flush is not individually treated...they mix and get pushed along a little farther with following flushes....yet each flushing, sanitation is applied as FF pointed out.
 
Confused.....FF you once told me that using bleach (chlorine) in a holding tank to kill the cooties then plump out was just adding poison to the mess yet isn't that what an Electroscan does?
 
"yet isn't that what an Electroscan does?"

Yup, but they chop it up really fine and stew it for a bit .

Someone made a discharge rule , and they figured out how to meet the rule.

Welcome to America.
 
Then sewage (sorry - zapped and cleansed sewage) discharge from an ElectroSan is potable / drinkable / consumable / swim-in-able?? I've got a bridge for sale...!!!
 
It's all about disease - coliform bacteria. Reduce the concentration of coliform below a certain level and chop it into small enough pieces and you're allowed to pump it overboard. You can't pump it overboard in fresh water areas or designated No Discharge Zones (the link that was posted earlier.) All of the San Francisco Bay Area is legal to discharge this purified poop, except Richardson Bay, next to Sausalito. The California Delta is fresh water and so is off limits too.

Richard
 
4th O' July cleansed PoopSickles for sale at marine ElectroSan location near you! Be there or be square!!

No holding tank boats allowed...

:rofl: :lol: :dance:
 
Actually perception over disease as someone has pointed out....too often.

Complying boaters are penalized in places where beaches are routinely shut down for high coliform counts....not attributable to the boaters.

While some enjoy antiques that help destroy the environment talk down to EPA certified devices....I can only say...swim a mile in my flippers before ye judge so harshly.
 
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I don't think anyone has suggested that a LectroSan produces drinkable water. The amount of fecal matter introduced into the water by a LectroSan is infinitesimal as compared to what gets flushed into the water by your average rainstorm or a flock of geese, not to mention the boat owners with "locked" holding tanks.
 
BlueYonder said:
I don't think anyone has suggested that a LectroSan produces drinkable water. The amount of fecal matter introduced into the water by a LectroSan is infinitesimal as compared to what gets flushed into the water by your average rainstorm or a flock of geese, not to mention the boat owners with "locked" holding tanks.
Click to expand...
You can tell many of the NDZs are emotional/political versus scientific.
 
Britannia said:
It's all about disease - coliform bacteria. Reduce the concentration of coliform below a certain level and chop it into small enough pieces and you're allowed to pump it overboard. You can't pump it overboard in fresh water areas or designated No Discharge Zones (the link that was posted earlier.) All of the San Francisco Bay Area is legal to discharge this purified poop, except Richardson Bay, next to Sausalito. The California Delta is fresh water and so is off limits too.

Richard
Click to expand...

No big turds allowed, only small ones! ;)
 
windmill29130 said:
No big turds allowed, only small ones! ;)
Click to expand...

Please clarify size allotment/quotient! :D

Second thought - naw, never mind... Then we'll get into specific gravity, solids %age, moisture content - and all that ****! :lol:
 
psneeld said:
You can tell many of the NDZs are emotional/political versus scientific.
Click to expand...

I agree. There is a proposal here in Maryland to turn the entire Chester River into a no discharge zone. Nothing but a "feel good" proposal that has a ready made target: "Rich" boat owners.

The Chester River Association, which is pushing the proposed no discharge zone, cannot even quantify what improvement, if any, will result. They also make no attempt to estimate the cost to modify the few boats home based on the Chester river that have Type I or II MSDs. Needless to say, there is nothing in the proposal to help owners pay to modify their boats.
 
What cracks me up is ....

The USCG with oversight has approved a device to discharge.

There are obvious places that discharge of every vessel or at least a substantial number on any given day MAY overwhelm the environment to sanitize itself.

But for places where the boat density or water turnover is great. I agree with the USCG.

So people who go through the trouble and expense of installing these devices are now regularly under attack to virtually eliminate them without any science behind it .....only paranoia about germs or distasteful waters that often contain far worse for the human body.

Eliminate the use of waste devices without the convenience and reasonable cost of pumpouts...and you might actually make the water worse as some may rebel at the whole issue of compliance.

For those of you that weekend in areas with many and cheap pumpouts...great....some areas you are hard pressed to find one working, open or of reasonable cost.
 
I bet the discharge of the sanitation devices are cleaner than what most cities dump into the same area we cruise in!! I know Portland, Seattle and other dump raw sewage into the bays when we get a lot of rain. So I think the EPA and others should get off boaters backs and start working the real problem. Once that is done then come back to the boating community and work that side in a cooperative way instead of "command and control" mentality.
 
No more pooping aboard boat - USCG is handing out free butt plugs if interested! No... not those type of BPs... but rather the ones that screw in with automatic lock that only releases while on terra firma.


These BP's were designed by same engineering idiots who designed spill proof caps and pour spouts on portable gas cans... you know - the ones that leak and seldom seat correctly when closed. If the locking, mandated BP's are as faulty in design just be sure to bring extra under pants and scented Lysol... ugly, smelly, maybe even ignitable seepage will probably occur!

:lol:
 
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