Learning about fiberglass fabrication?

Where is a good place to learn about fiberglass fabrication basics for marine projects? All the Google searches I have done come up with fabricating speaker boxes for cars. I don't know even things like what gelcoat is? How does it differ from paint? What to use as cores for things? I mean, I really need to start from scratch. I want to try and make a dash for the flybridge that will allow electronics to be recessed into it and I want to rearrange the engine gauges and thruster controls so that they make more sense.

I was thinking about going to the local library as an option too. Any books I should look for too?

I don't know where you are, but in Anacortes Washington there is a new school of Marine technology that I think has classes in fiberglass boat construction.* ...........Arctic Traveller

Not sure how much time you have on your hands, but I wanted to know about marine diesel mechanics and how the systems work on a boat, so I hired on with a Marine Diesel Mechanic...and you will be surprised how quickly someone will take you as a helper/student if you tell them your only pay will be the knowledge you receive. (and I have learned allot) Normally they will work around your schedule, but remember, they are earning a living....so allot of what you will learn will be from watching and not from lecturing/tutoring. Remember also, you are a helper...so be prepared to be a gopher (gopher this and gopher that or whatever he/she asks you to gopher) and try to get involved and volunteer to do the things you feel secure in doing.

Go to a haul out yard or talk to a mechanic, or maybe check with a yacht broker friend, most will be able to give you good info on leads as to whom you should talk to.*

Hope this helps....Good luck.

-- Edited by Roostor on Thursday 9th of December 2010 02:14:29 AM

For molding small parts like a dash vs creating a hull from scratch , look at the EAA site for books.

The backyard aircraft folks are among the best creators of one off items for their use.

I bought a book several years ago by Alan Vaitsus (spelling??) and I thught it was pretty good. Helped me make a lot of repairs.

This link has some downloadable pdf's on faberglass fabrication from West System, if you want a little wintertime book-learnin'*

Sorry, I forgot how to make this a clickable link.


http://www.westsystem.com/ss/how-to-publications/

There are two very good books you can find on Amazon sur a few bucks. It will teach you the basics. Then it's like anything else: practice and experiment.

http://www.amazon.ca/Fiberglass-Rep...9927/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1291904043&sr=8-2

http://www.amazon.ca/Fiberglass-Boat-Repair-Manual/dp/0071569146/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

What you want to do is not an easy first project but's it not rocket science either. I took a classe last year and they gave us a toy boat with a hole in the hull. We had to repair it. Maybe you can start with something like that to get a feel for it. Or find an old piece of fiberglass at the yard and experiment.

The two major problems of working with fiberglass are the fumes and the dust when you sand. This is not the kind of thing you can do in your basement.

And to answer your question, gelcoat is a colored resin similar to the resin that is used to glass. When they build a boat they start by shooting gelcoat on a waxed mold (a bit like paint). Once cured they apply the fiberglass (either with a chop gun or by hand, a few layers at a time). Once everything is cured, they demold and voilà, you have a hull. There are many variations to this technique of course but this is the basics. For your project you will probably have to build a form and glass over it, then paint or gelcoat. Building a mold for a single piece is a lot of work and a bit complicated.

I would take ARoss advice and try West System first. Their pdf files are extensive and written for the novice.
Tom Pawlak is the tech guy at West Systems. I've found him knowledgeable and easy to talk too.

Gonzo: *In my own search, I came across these sites. *Dig into them, and you'll probably find examples of what you want to do. *With the dash, it sounds like you may want to consider mold-less composite construction. *Articles and even videos on how-to.

http://www.fibreglast.com/category/Learning_Center


Here's another article on using GRP/Urethane Foam Composite that I found extremely helpful when building a pilothouse enclosure.


http://www.rqriley.com/frp-foam.htm

GonzoF1 wrote:

Where is a good place to learn about fiberglass fabrication*

I was thinking about going to the local library as an option too. Any books I should look for too?

Click to expand...

I picked up a book called This Old Boat .* Don Casey. Best I have found. Puts things into plain English, often humorous but very informative..
FYI. Gell coat is just resin with a pigment and hardener*added

*

SD*
<h3 class="r">Check this out Fiberglass Repair by Don Casey</h3>
*


-- Edited by skipperdude on Thursday 9th of December 2010 10:44:35 AM

-- Edited by skipperdude on Thursday 9th of December 2010 10:45:12 AM

Some good stuff here. Thanks.

I'm watching a few videos on YouTube about this subject and was wondering if there is a recommended marine alternative to West Systems Epoxy?

Hiya,
** Mr. Gonzo.* Polyester MAY be a preferrred material for making your new dash because it sets up faster, is cheaper and doesn't necessairily have to have the specific properties that make West System and the like a better material for SPECIFIC" applications.
** I've done some work with both and in*a number of*ways, polyester is easier to work with.

I also vote for polyester resin. I have worked with epoxy but I really prefer to poly because that has always been the base material and I would rather keep it that same. I also sometimes use fiberglass reinforced bondo as a bulk filler and that is poly compatable.
Poly*sands easier in my experience and I most often finish with gelcoat rather than paint and poly likes gelcoat.
Also with poly resin I normally use 1 1/2 ounce mat rather than cloth. It fits the needs for most of the projects I have worked on.

I would say about 90% of boats are made of poly resin.

Remember epoxy will stick (adhear) To poly* But poly will not bond with epoxy.

So if there is an addition on your boat that is made of epoxy* you can't use poly

but you can use epoxy* on any fiberglass componet.

Plus poly is about 1/2 the price.

SD

Go to the "Plastic Classic Forum" for all you want to know and more. They're sailboaters for the most part but the forum moderator knows his stuff.

http://plasticclassicforum.com/

Question- why do you never hear of someone spraying a new gelcoat over existing fiberglass?

Forkliftt wrote:

Question- why do you never hear of someone spraying a new gelcoat over existing fiberglass?

Click to expand...

It can be*done, and it is done, on a small scale. I have a friend that has done it and taught the method to our kayak club. Honestly, I don't think it would be cost effective, as opposed to painting.*It requires as much preparation as is necessary for painting, then spraying the gelcoat, then sanding smooth, then polishing and polishing and polishing. Ever finer grits and much labor... ... ... ... ... I'm so tired that I can't continue. Paint it!!!

*

Forkliftt wrote:

Question- why do you never hear of someone spraying a new gelcoat over existing fiberglass?

Click to expand...

This can be done but it is generally not considered a cost-effective method.* Plus repairing gel coat that gets dinged, chipped, or cracked is a muti-step job.* And there is the issue of matching the color, which is apparently harder with gel coat than paint.

Paint, on the other hand, is easy to repair if it gets damaged and getting a color match is easier.

I've been told that some high*yacht manufacturers have done away with gel coat altogether in the manufacture of their new fiberglass boats and paint them from the outset.

*

Marin wrote:

*I've been told that some high*yacht manufacturers have done away with gel coat altogether in the manufacture of their new fiberglass boats and paint them from the outset. _____________________________________________________________* *I know for a fact that this is true and some really big names in yacht manufacturing converted to paint years ago. Not only reasons that Marin stated but for cost in the manufacturing process. The obvious side benifit is the ease of touch up. (I guess he DID cover these two points.) My own boat has a painted hull and is now* entering its 7th year. (Still looks great)

Click to expand...

*


-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Saturday 11th of December 2010 10:59:58 AM

I too, am perplexed about this. *Coating technology has become as reliable and durable as a lot of gel-coat re-dos. *Gel-coat still may have an edge in life from the factory, but how many of us use our boats in a chipless, wearless environment. *When it comes time to do the hull, I'm going with the best paint I can afford over the best prep I can do.

SeaHorse II wrote:


My own boat has a painted hull and is now* entering its 7th year. (Still looks great

Click to expand...

SeaHorse, Walt In my opinion you have one of the nicest boats on the forum. Clean sexy and always looking Bristol. *I wish I could keep my boat so nice. What brand of paint was used?

SD

*

Of course there is a flip side to this topic. Our boat was 25 years old when we bought it. It had spent its entire life under various names baking in the sun in San Francisco Bay until we came along. Fiberglass boats like Grand Banks in the early 70s tended to be overbuilt. In the case of American Marine they switched from wood to fiberglass in '73 and they were not shy about the layers of glass they put into their hulls since the material was new to them and they felt that safe was better than sorry.

But gelcoat was new to them, too, and while their hulls, particularly the early ones like ours, are built like tanks, the gelcoat was another matter. I've been told early gelcoat was not as tough as later formulas and the manufacturers were still finding out how to apply it, how thick it should be, and so on. Our boat's gelcoat has taken quite a beating. In addition to the expected eggshellng of much of the surface, there are all sorts of chips, dings, thin spots, scrapes, etc.

We'd love to throw twenty or thirty thousand at the boat and take it up to Vancouver and have the whole boat properly prepped and painted. We actively started investigating this not long after buying the boat, and then we met a fellow who caused us to think again.

This guy was selling his deceased father's yacht, a seventy or eighty footer that had been hit by a small freighter and been completely repaired by Delta Marine, the super-yacht manufacturer located on the Duwamish Waterway in Seattle. Part of the rebuild included an absolutely spectacular paint job, the best I have ever seen on any vessel, bar none.

I was on board the boat talking to the owner and mentioned our old GB and how much we'd love to have it painted like his boat had been. He laughed and said there are two ways to go. One is to have a beautiful paint job put on and then spend the rest of your days terrified that you or somebody else will scratch it. His recommendation was the second way--- leave the boat the way it is, scratches, dings, and all, and just enjoy it without the ever-present fear that you'll get it dirty, scuffed, or dinged.

While we would still love to have the boat painted, from that moment on we have not had any heartburn over the exterior finish on our boat. It's almost 38 years old now, looks it, and that's just the way it is. We wax it from time to time, but like the helicopter pilot at the TV station I used to work at said about the station's crappy, cheap helicopter that fell out of the sky on a regular basis, "You can only polish a turd so much."

If we ever find $30k lying in a gutter somewhere, sure, we'll send the boat north and have a nice paint job put on it. But if that day never comes, we'll just continue to enjoy the boat minus the ever-present worry about the finish.

We may someday try painting it ourselves, starting with a small area like the forward cabin exterior, just because we think it would be an interesting thing to attempt. But it's right down at the bottom of the "to do" list.



-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 11th of December 2010 01:40:50 PM

skipperdude wrote:

*
What brand of paint was used?



*

Click to expand...

The boat was made by Selene and the papers with it say the paint is "Cook
Epoxy."

After many attempts to contact Selene, Halvorsen, dealers and the Cook Paint
Company, I have come up empty handed. Nobody writes or calls back.
For these reasons, I would never recommend someone buy a new Halvorsen
(Island Gypsy). The irony, however, is that I love the boat!


(Hopefully one of the above mentioned will read this missile and stoke the
customer service fire.)


*

Point well taken, Marin, and scratch or chip paranoia is exactly what I'd have if my boat was one of those incredibly pristine examples. *Fact is, I can't own such a vehicle, boat or otherwise. *The stress is too much for me, and maybe the amount of work that such a boat deserves to keep it looking its best is too much for me too. *I'm doing a stripe change to "Bucky" right now to match the new Navy canvas, but the amount of glass work to the upper and lower stripe area is way more than I ever expected. *I felt that if I didn't do it now, I never would. *I think I'll have to leave the really pristine boats to those who have the money to care for it or those who's enjoyment of boats include all the work to keep it that way. *The Halvorsen Gormet 32, by the way, is one of those boats that really deserve that kind of care, and is probably why I don't have one.

-- Edited by healhustler on Saturday 11th of December 2010 01:53:43 PM

*I have rolled and tip the exterior several times and*repaired hundred of bang/scraps.* 95% of the work is in the prep and prime.* The pretty gloss coat is applied just heavy enough *to cover the dull primer.* Its the primer that actually protects the boat.** This summer I rolled and tip the starboard salon and bridge.* First time had a couple runs, so lightly sand and repainted.* When we pull I will roll and tip the hull below the rub rail.* The final pretty gloss coat will take about 4 hours.* Not a big job once you get the hang of it.
*
Some with epoxy the scratches/dings as it sort of like plastering.* If you dont like it sand it down/of and apply a new coat. The trick is using the right additive for the application, how thin/thick and how fast to dry.* I use the fast dry most of the time, 404 additive for most application and 407 for faring as its*easy to sand.** Epoxy and or rolling tipping is not that hard.* If you screw up then sand it down and do over.* Its not like is a one shot deal.*

I use Brightside as is cheap, last a long time, easy to apply and match.* I use cheap throw away everything, gloves, paint brushes, containers, paper towels and no clean up.* Let us know when you get into a project as we can walk you through it.*


-- Edited by Phil Fill on Saturday 11th of December 2010 06:38:37 PM

"Paint Sells Da Boat,"

So paint it when you are selling , IF you think its worth the price.

As a cruiser ,fantastic paint is our LAST priority.

A good place to for videos is MAS epoxies web site. I used MAS epoxy when I rebuilt my two sailboats. Their system is easy to use and does not create the blush that other epoxies do. I would also like to build a radio console for my Defever 40s flybridge and I will watch youtube for ideas when it comes time. There are a lot of ideas on youtub. One last thing, I rolled and tipped two part poly paint on both of my boats. It was tricky but it worked out.

goodness- I just checked out that link to the plasticclassic forum. Check out this thread there:
http://plasticclassicforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=4431

If I EVER feel like I have a lot of work to do on my boat I am going to go back and read that thread- HOLY COW! I got exhausted and covered and fiberglass dust just reading that thread!!!

We're having the topsides painted on our trawler as soon as I can actually find time to bring her down the river to the yard that will do it. I had hoped to do it this week but too much going on so it's looking to be after the holidays now.

-- Edited by Woodsong on Monday 13th of December 2010 08:45:25 AM

I was told that Hatteras has been painting there boats for years .
No gel*coat.

SD