Trawler purchase help needed, Fleming/G.B./Alaskan...???

Hey fellow skippers....

New member here and wanted to get some owner/cruiser advice from those in the know please. I am looking to purchase a used but new to me motoryacht/trawler with possible live aboard in equation.
I am in the bay area but will be retiring in the PNW in a few years and want to get one last boat. I am looking at a 2001 Fleming 55, 1999 Alaskan 64 and GB of various sizes. I love the Fleming build quality and the drive mechanism and love that Tony Fleming is an active mariner and dedicated to improving his namesake at any chance. I recently came across the Alaskan and appears to be the exact same design, but not sure about the build quality like the Fleming. I know the GB name but like the interior the least of the 3.
What I am soliciting the group about is pros/cons of the 3 makes. I want to do the passage to Alaska and be safe in relatively rough water, and lastly, have a boat that will hold up over time if well taken care of and maintained properly.
Thanks in advance folks and safe voyages.
James

With the magic words "live aboard" then much depends on how the set up works for you. So now it's a house plus a boat. You like the interior of the GB least so that's a big factor to consider.

Then it becomes quality of build, condition of boat and seaworthiness.

All would appear capable of meeting your needs. I personally love Fleming boats even though didn't find one to meet our specific needs. I would place them quality and in terms of seaworthiness one step beyond the other two, but that's like giving an A+ and two A's.

Older GB's tend to require a good bit of work to bring them up to speed. From fuel tanks to all the teak, there are just things that typically require some catch up. Alaskan is a small volume builder, an excellent design. I'm not as knowledgeable on their quality and attention to detail as I am on the other two.

A lot is going to come to a specific boat and the one you fall in love with that also passes boat survey, engine survey, and sea trials well.

Hi Cap'n...

Welcome to the Clan!

Any of those are fine boats, but you might want to ask yourself a few of the questions below first. You are looking at some pretty good size boats.

Are you focusing on coastal cruising for the most part? Or possible some blue water?
And a full displacement or semi displacement? You did sayyour planning on live aboard possible or just occasional cruising.
Just remember, the larger the boat, the larger the boat bucks.

Good luck in the hunt.

Crusty, thanks for the time on the response. I am not planning major blue water, mostly an inside passage to Alaska, still that is a serious task and by no means taking it lightly. But having just read about a Fleming 53 crossing the Atlantic and hitting 75 knot winds for days off of Cartegena, I was more than impressed.....so coastal cruising is my goal. My liveaboard desire is more for retirement and costs...I figure the boat versus a condo/apt or house, I will take the boat.
Thanks again Salty. Why are you in the desert, no boats there that I know of?

Greetings,
Welcome aboard.

Capn,

The tax advantage of Nevada as a residence can't be beat. We hope to close on our next boat within 30 days, and park it in Portland, another good tax break.
If all goes well, next spring head north. Might get to SE Alaska, but not gonna be on a schedule from now on. We want to roam a lot.

BandB,
Thanks for the reply and taking the time to help me out....Yeah, I can't get the Fleming out of my mind, but the Alaskan is just like her, appears to be the same mold....is that possible? Didn't Tony Fleming work for American Marine before starting Fleming?

Welcome. Fleming 55 is an iconic boat, considering your short list you seem to be leaning toward a semi displacement hull with a turn of speed. If you haven't already done so Ocean Alexander is worth a look in that size range and age range.

Craig,
Thanks for the tip. Had not really considered OA, how do you feel their quality holds up over time? I don't need/want speed, more about economy and like the Harley, it's about the journey....I don't want to spend the $ on high burn rates, so 7-9 knots is fine....
Thanks for the reply.

I believe the Alaskans have Iron tanks.

Capn James Brett said:

BandB,
Thanks for the reply and taking the time to help me out....Yeah, I can't get the Fleming out of my mind, but the Alaskan is just like her, appears to be the same mold....is that possible? Didn't Tony Fleming work for American Marine before starting Fleming?

Click to expand...

Yes, he worked for American Marine/Grand Banks for 20 years.

As to the Alaskan looking a lot like the Fleming, there is definitely some similarity.

Their value over time is the same as any other boat that age IMO, it's all about the survey. Two boats identical year, make, model will be vastly different values depending upon the previous owners maintenance standard.

If a turn of speed is not required you may open up your search to DeFever. Another iconic brand of boats with timeless lines of mostly slower full displacement hull design.

Fleming. They are prettier. That is a good enough reason for me.

Alaskans as built by American Marine are all wood boats. The last ones were built in the 1970s as American Marine could not afford to switch both their Grand Banks and Alaskan lines of boats to fiberglass. So they switched only the Grand Banks line and the Alaskan line was phased out.

The design of some of AM's Alaskan models was by Arthur DeFever. When Tony Fleming left American Marine he based his own eventual line of boats on the same basic DeFever design.

There is a current line of Alaskan yachts but these have no relationship to the old American Marine and their line of wood Alaskans in the 1960s and 70s. Here is the link to the current line of Alaskan yachts.

http://alaskanyachts.com

Some random thoughts and mutterings -------

Minimize your internet time and maximize your dock and boat show time. Nothing beats laying your eyes and hands on the real thing.

One thing for sure, you are not looking for a trawler. That is OK, just be sure you understand the fuel bills and engine and drive train maintenance costs are factored in, easily four to 8 fold over what we hull speed guys realize.

My suggested list of vessels in the 55 to 65 foot range would go well beyond Fleming. The F55 has a totally unacceptable ER space for those of us that enjoy the iron bits, very much a throwback to half a century ago thoughts. That said, the F55 is the benchmark from which to judge other vessels.

On my short list of 10 years or newer used vessels, the contenders:

Offshore
OA
Outer Reef
GB
Fleming

For newer vessels in the 45 to 55 range the down east designs are worth a look. Any older than pre 2000s the plethora of 2 cycle DDs creeps into the mix with attendant higher fuel burns, noise and short engine life. But, one of the best deals out there could be a big Hatteras that has been lovingly cared for with properly re-built DDs or correctly re-powered. One more older designs on my list is Nordlund, simply great vessels but again with those older DDs common.

Enjoy the hunt and use that shoe leather as you look at non-trawlers.

Sunchaser...thanks for the good advice. Seeing the boats sure gets you excited, at least it does me. Only issue is some of the marina's here with Flemings, not too many out there, are not at the broker docks near me. Planning a weekend trip to Seattle to do some hunting and inquire about a slip space as well.
Appreciate you taking the time to help me out.
James

I've been on an Offshore and it's a very nice vessel, for sure. However you may want to think a bit more about how fast you want to go if you intend to live aboard. There are trade offs, for sure. As far as living space goes, the Krogen is the largest boat out there at all lengths: a Krogen 55 is over 3 feet wider in the saloon for the same length as the Fleming. They are very different boats I realize, but you should try and get aboard and see what the admiral thinks about the space. (Edited out fuel comment) There's a Krogen 58 for sale in the same price range as that Fleming 55.


Jim
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Why a cookie-cutter? Why not one of these? ABD.

Marin said:

There is a current line of Alaskan yachts but these have no relationship to the old American Marine and their line of wood Alaskans in the 1960s and 70s. Here is the link to the current line of Alaskan yachts.

Home: Alaskan Yachts

Click to expand...

And these are the Alaskan yachts he's talking about as he's talking about a 1999.

I've seen High Pockets. You need "Full Pockets" to buy one of those..and they'd be empty afterwards!


Jim
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I like Sunchaser's list and would add Hatteras and Marlowe to it. I love the Fleming 55 as boats to be underway in, but we could never consider one as a live aboard ourselves. They're actually a pretty small boat and the master stateroom set up is a deal killer for us, as was the engine room (as beautiful as it is) was for me, ERs are a no-crawl zone for me.

Just to give you an example of how two 55ish boats can be quite different, here's a pic of my 56 Hatt side by side with a beautiful Fleming 55:





As noted, the equations become different (and they are also different for different people) as you add 1) living aboard full time and 2) cruising full time. Ergonomics for handling, living and maintaining the boat comfortably become more and more critical and for us, less subject to compromise.


BTW, I disagree with the urban (or dockside) legend about the 2 cycle DD's. The longevity is just fine as along as they aren't juiced up, as many were, and run really hard, as many, especially in sportfishermen, were. But they were pretty much getting phased out circa 2000.

High Pockets new would have been a breathtaking amount but High Pockets used went for less than a thousand boat dollars. Last I looked, Flemings were up there too. In fact the subject here is a 72' which is a bit bigger than the Fleming but with a single 500 Cummins, I'll bet it's significantly cheaper to run. Plus, no wood outside. You could raft with a Fleming and not even notice it! The only thing I don't like about High Pockets is it was painted, which makes for a pretty boat but without paint, all you will ever need outside is bleach and a bucket.

Having owned a Grand Banks I recognise the comfort zone of fellow owners, kind of a built-in yacht club, but there are virtually no production boats I would look twice at now. I would bet that the percentage of members on here that would look twice at my boat is very small. I actually like that. No offence intended, I like being here.

Forgot to mention, I look after a 65 Hat and it is massive. Twin 4 cylinder Detroits, two generators and about 5 air conditioning units. 4 heads. Enough accommodation to be a slum landlord if times get tight. That would be a great live aboard and an economical cruiser.

Xsbank said:

High Pockets new would have been a breathtaking amount but High Pockets used went for less than a thousand boat dollars. Last I looked, Flemings were up there too. In fact the subject here is a 72' which is a bit bigger than the Fleming but with a single 500 Cummins, I'll bet it's significantly cheaper to run. Plus, no wood outside. You could raft with a Fleming and not even notice it! The only thing I don't like about High Pockets is it was painted, which makes for a pretty boat but without paint, all you will ever need outside is bleach and a bucket.

Having owned a Grand Banks I recognise the comfort zone of fellow owners, kind of a built-in yacht club, but there are virtually no production boats I would look twice at now. I would bet that the percentage of members on here that would look twice at my boat is very small. I actually like that. No offence intended, I like being here.

Click to expand...

I believe High Pockets also has had a substantial refit since it was purchased. My neighbour is good friends with the engineer on that boat. He used to work with him in the airlines. It's moored in Port McNeil.


Jim
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Last time I saw her she was passing me as I was enroute to Roche Harbour for the GB Rendezvous. She had a bone in her teeth and when she passed, I regretted probably for the first time in my life that I wasn't Bill Gates!

I've got a friend who berths ships in Port McNeill - I'll see if he knows the new owner. Thanks Jim!

Good luck in your search! I don't play in this area of budget but if I did there simply is not a more beautiful boat than the Fleming 55 or 65. I have never met Mr. Grand or Mr. Banks, Mr. Alaskan, etc. but I did get the opportunity to meet Tony Fleming in the pilothouse of his own boat at the Seattle Boat Show this year. Reading Passagemaker there is plenty made over the Fleming's. For my son, it was like meeting an icon. He was taking the time to talk with average folks and explain why he made the choices that he did. This was incredibly impactful and I appreciated his time. When you are in a marina your eye instantly goes to the Fleming. They are simply stunning!

The other day when we were in Anacortes a 65 pulled out of their slip in a pretty confined space. It spun around on a dime in a fairway that was maybe 8 feet longer than the boat. Incredibly agile for a boat that size.

Good luck in your search! Thanks for keeping the dream alive for the rest of us!

Perhaps a Selene, if you're in this range, in the PNW market?

Caltex points out something to keep in mind. Size of boat isn't just length. Think volume. You see his Hatteras parked beside a similarly sized Fleming. That doesn't mean it's better, but definitely bigger and it reflects itself in many ways.

In your initial post you mention a 55' Fleming and a 64' Alaskan. A 55' Fleming should be large enough for your purposes, but if you want to compare to the 64' Alaskan then you need to use a 65' Fleming for that comparison.

I'd suggest thinking of your requirements a bit more before selecting a brand. Will you be living on it alone? How many guests? Where do you intend to cruise. Look at the layouts as thinking of your needs, not in a general way. What percentage of the time will you be single handing?