Let us talk about Navigation Lights and Anchor Lights

Hiya,
** USCG compliant is good.* Another thing to consider is how easy will it be for you or anyone else to change their bulb/LED way up there.* It should be pretty straight forward if your mast is in a tabernacle whereby you can readily lower the mast and service the equipment on same but it could be a double barreled bugger if one has to de-mast.* Possibly another plus for installing a USCG approved LED (long life).
** I have a friend who hoists a kerosene lantern to his masthead when anchoring.* Approved?** Who knows but interesting none-the-less.
** A question somewhat related.* Does anyone use a day marker when anchored...
http://www.safety-marine.co.uk/Horns-Bells-and-Signal-Shapes/Black-Metal-Anchor-Ball-Signal-Shape-(24-inch).htm?P4103-S19-
* or is it considered*necessary in order to*remain in compliance with COL REGS?

RT,
The base of our mast is attached to a large stainless steel base plate that is hinged. Very easy to lower. In fact, I have to lower it to get under the roof of my slip! That is kind of a pain. As I was laying in bed last night though the idea occurred to me that I can and am going to rig up an "extension" of the steel cable that holds the mast forward with a quick release clip on it. This way, instead of fully lowering it, I can lower it just a little past vertical to clear the roof without having to manually hold the mast up.
I am going to order the replacement LED bulb though for the light that they make as well.

RE: day marker for anchoring.....hmmm...closest thing I guess I have to an anchoring day marker would be my margarita/frozen daiquiri machine being out on the bridge making it's happy concoctions!! I am not sure said machine is accepted by the USCG as a day marker though.

I don't really understand the point of a day marker for anchoring. I've honestly never seen anyone use one. It's kind of obvious if a boat is anchored, or at least it seems that it is to me....

Windsong you could use a two way toggle switch using the one wire to power both lights separately.* That is what I use for the anchor light and forward light.

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Phil Fill wrote:

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Windsong you could use a two way toggle switch using the one wire to power both lights separately.That is what I use for the anchor light and forward light.



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yeah but then I would have to also move the stern light which would involve routing the wiring up through the hand rail stanchion and mounting just under the hand rail which would require removing and drilling through the stanchion....doesn't seem worth the hassle when I can just go with an all around mast light.

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RT Firefly wrote:

** I have a friend who hoists a kerosene lantern to his masthead when anchoring.* Approved?** Who knows but interesting none-the-less.
**

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We usually use a kerosene lantern instead of the electric anchor light.* We have a lantern that was designed for this purpose so is weatherproof and has a good Fresnel lens.* When I take the dog ashore for his last run of the night and look out at the boats in the anchorage, our lantern is as bright as the majority of the other anchor lights out there.* One reason--- although not the main one--- we prefer the lantern is that its flame is orange-ish instead of white.* In a dark anchorage on a clear night, I found it interesting how many anchor lights "disappear" in the stars, particularly the higher*lights on the sailboats.

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Woodsong wrote


I don't really understand the point of a day marker for anchoring. I've honestly never seen anyone use one. It's kind of obvious if a boat is anchored, or at least it seems that it is to me....

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Most people don't use day shapes it is sort of a commercial thing. Good to know if you come upon a boat and wonder if it's moving, stationary or involved in some sort of operation. i.e. fishing, trawling or mine sweeping.I made a day shape round ball out of a styrofoam ball and black spray paint. When I applied the paint it made the ball decrease in size by about 1/3.

SD

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Guess I'm the only one with the ball, as well as steaming cone for the sailboat.

But with our ligatious society , it seems prudent.

Woodsong. you use the anchor wire to power both.* Come off the anchor light wire with a toggle switch between the two.* I mounted the toggle switch on the mast with dirt outside electrical box to protect it.* That way you can leave the original stern wiring and light where it is.


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I would double check if a 360 degree light is legal for your size boat?* I would not take TF board word with out double checking.* *

Marin wrote:



*We usually use a kerosene lantern instead of the electric anchor light.* We have a lantern that was designed for this purpose so is weatherproof and has a good Fresnel lens.*

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I collect old boat lights. Would love to see a pic of what you have.

SD

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We always hoist a black ball when at anchor during daylight hours.* The reasons are two fold.* First of all it's in the regulations and required, however loosely.* But the main reason is because I'm scared of lawyers and insurance companies.* Can't you just imagine being run over while at anchor and having an opposing attorney ask in court why I wasn't flying the required shape?* I can also imagine being denied coverage by my insurance carrier for the same reason.* Call me paranoid, I guess.* But I'm not about to test the system.

Ray

-- Edited by Giggitoni on Thursday 9th of December 2010 12:38:14 PM

Windsong,** use the anchor wire to power both.* Come off the anchor light wire with a toggle switch between the two.* I mounted the toggle switch on the mast with dirt outside electrical box to protect it.* That way you can leave the original stern wiring and light where it is.


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I would double check if a 360 degree light is legal for your size boat?****

If a 360-degree white masthead*light is used for navigation, the boat must be less than 12 meters in length.* Separate 225-degree (masthead) and 135-degree stern*lights are required for boats between 12 and 20 meters.

FF wrote: Guess I'm the only one with the ball ...

But with our ligatious society , it seems prudent.

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What? Is the Okeechobee League of Degenerate Fellowship Association*& Reproductive Termination Society picketing the local Planned Parenthood office again?


-- Edited by RickB on Thursday 9th of December 2010 12:54:23 PM

skipperdude wrote:I collect old boat lights. Would love to see a pic of what you have.

SD



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It's not old.* It was given to us new by a good friend a few years after we bought the boat in 1998.

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Old Farts?

SD

-- Edited by skipperdude on Thursday 9th of December 2010 01:12:42 PM

Phil Fill wrote:

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I would double check if a 360 degree light is legal for your size boat?

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This is a summary of what I have read and found and seems to be correct and USCG compliant. *Since my boat is a 36' I fall into the less than 12m category so a single white masthead light and sidelights are legal:



Lights displayed by power-driven vessels underway
A power-driven vessel underway must display:a masthead light forward;If over 50*metres (164 ft) length, then also a second masthead light aft and higher than the forward one;sidelights;a sternlight.A hovercraft must also display an all-round flashing yellow light.A*wing-in-ground craft must also display a bright all-round flashing red light when taking off, landing, or flying near the surface.A power-driven vessel of less than 12*metres (39.4 ft) may display only an all-round white light and sidelights. However in the case of a skiff a wooden clinker rowing boat which falls into this category only needs to be capible of showing a white light.A power-driven vessel of less than 7*metres (23.0 ft) whose maximum speed does not exceed 7*knots (13 km/h; 8 mph) must be capible of showing a white light

Woodsong wrote:

*
Phil Fill wrote:

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I would double check if a 360 degree light is legal for your size boat?

*

Click to expand...

This is a summary of what I have read and found and seems to be correct and USCG compliant. *Since my boat is a 36' I fall into the less than 12m category so a single white masthead light and sidelights are legal:






Tony

You are absolutely right. Vessels up to 12 meter (39' 4") may choose to display as you do, all around masthead and sidelights. I do the same on my thirty six, and verified the legality long ago. It's clearly stated in the nav rules.

I must confess that I do find it odd that the USCG has two different allowed methods of marking boats under 12m. I would think that it could only potentially lead to confusion and just one more thing people have to remember....I would have thought the USCG would have only one allowed method for each size class so as to create a uniform lighting scheme for all size classes. In my instance I am glad I am allowed to safely go the route of just one masthead light but I am perplexed as to why the USCG allows two different methods for the same size vessels.

Woodsong wrote:

I must confess that I do find it odd that the USCG has two different allowed methods of marking boats under 12m. I would think that it could only potentially lead to confusion and just one more thing people have to remember....I would have thought the USCG would have only one allowed method for each size class so as to create a uniform lighting scheme for all size classes. In my instance I am glad I am allowed to safely go the route of just one masthead light but I am perplexed as to why the USCG allows two different methods for the same size vessels.

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Tony*I agree. I do see one possibility for allowing the all around on us smaller vessels, simply because small boats are more limited as to where they can carry their dinghys. But, why not make the all around the only configuration for 12m and under.

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Giggitoni wrote:

........................... *Can't you just imagine being run over while at anchor and having an opposing attorney ask in court why I wasn't flying the required shape?*

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If the other operator is so blind or so drunk he can't see your boat in front of him, what would make anyone think he could see a round black ball hanging from your boat?*

Go to your nearest boat ramp and ask ten boaters what a black ball hanging from a boat means.* I'll be not more than one in ten will know.

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I agree with you, Ron. 100%. However, common sense won't buy us a thing in the eyes of the defendants attorney or the insurance company who's trying to find any excuse to not pay your claim.

Ray

One possible reason for allowing two lighting configurations for boats under 12 meters is that many smaller boats--- like our 17' Arima--- have no mast to mount a separate steaming light on. So the one all-round light is accepted. But a "correct" display of a forward-facing white steaming light and a sternlight makes a vessel more visible. So that's preferred if you can do it. They had to set a length limit of some sort for the "exception," so 12 meters was chosen for whatever reason.

The all-round white light for trawlers in the 36' range is legal, but it's not preferred or recommended by the USCG people I've had the opportunity to talk to about this. Their reasoning has been that the all-round light on boats like ours is most likely to be the anchor light, which on many boats is on top of the mast. A proper sternlight is most likely going to be mounted on the cap rail, hand rail, staff, or aft end of a cabin, and a steaming light is most likely to be placed lower on a mast or on a cabin top. All of which are lower than a masthead anchor light. Which means they will be more apparent to another boater as they will be in the other boater's line of sight.

We don't normally run at night because the risk of hitting debris in our water is too great. But if we did make a habit of running at night, we would figure out a way of moving the sternlight up so it would clear the top of the swimstep mounted dinghy, and we'd use it and the steaming light instead of the all-round (anchor) light.

Marin is not the only one to use a lamp. This is the second lamp for us. The first was a cheap copy of the Dutch built units and they did not get it right.
I then bought a Dutch made lamp and it has been fine, rain, wind. The goofy thing was the Dutch one wasn't a whole lot more than the junk copy.
I too like the slightly orangish light. Our boat can be spotted from a long ways away by the colour and it is as easily seen as any other electric light.

As for the black ball and other signals. They have become a bit of a joke here. The darn things are meant to be placed when needed. Our local folk seems to think that means WELDED permanently in place so running or not the signals are all up. So who the h**k knows what they are doing by those signals. They have made them almost useless by these actions. So for anchoring I look to see if I can see the anchor rode down, not at or for the ball.

Of course we tend to anchor in spots that are known anchorages, rather than in or near fairways, or tiny coves where it should be clear.

Your point about lawyers and insurance companies is taken.

Ok we have about figured out and solved all the problems with nav lights and day shapes.

I guess the next step would be sounds.

*Do you have* a bell /*I do but I had to tie the string up to keep it out of the way.
Looks cool** It is out*on the back deck Just above the door.*Nice and green You know weathered bronze and really pretty loud.*

I have a horn. It isn't very loud so**I usually use a* hand held.

Like you said most people don't even know what sounds to make at all.
or that your suppose to.

any body ever have to use there horn?

I'm told some of the inland Horn cops can be pretty touchy on the subject.

SD

-- Edited by skipperdude on Thursday 9th of December 2010 08:38:51 PM

skipperdude wrote:

Ok we have about figured out and solved all the problems with nav lights and day shapes.

I guess the next step would be sounds.

*Do you have* a bell /*I do but I had to tie the string up to keep it out of the way.
Looks cool** It is out*on the back deck Just above the door.*Nice and green You know weathered bronze and really pretty loud.*

I have a horn. It isn't very loud so**I usually use a* hand held.

Like you said most people don't even know what sounds to make at all.
or that your suppose to.

any body ever have to use there horn?

I'm told some of the inland Horn cops can be pretty touchy on the subject.

SD

-- Edited by skipperdude on Thursday 9th of December 2010 08:38:51 PM

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I installed a pretty loud Ongaro dual trumpet horn.* You're supposed to use it when you leave your slip.* Nobody in my marina does this.* Besides, it would be a bad idea at daybreak if anyone is sleeping on their boat.

You're supposed to use it when in reverse.* When I'm backing into my slip I have enough to do without fooling with the horn.

Other than that, I have used the "danger" signal (five short blasts) a couple times when someone didn't seem to see my boat or realize I had the right of way.

I also have a "canned air" horn that I have been known to use when someone at the nearby public ramp wasn't quite sure what "No Wake" meant.

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We have a large bronze bell mounted outside the main cabin door where it's easily reached by the person at the helm. So far we've not had occasion to use it.

The boat is equipped with a pair of very loud air horns with the compressor under the flying bridge consol. When it's foggy we boat in the fog so the horns get a fair amount of use.

We also have a Standard Horizon LH5 hailer/intercom that will broadcast various horn timings and bell and siren signals from it's speaker horn outside. When we're in fog we set it to broadcast its horn tone every two minutes. When the LH5 horn goes off we hit the air horn button. This way we don't have to keep track of time intervals with a watch.

We've also used an oven timer to time air horn blasts.

Marin wrote:

We have a large bronze bell mounted outside the main cabin door where it's easily reached by the person at the helm. So far we've not had occasion to use it.

The boat is equipped with a pair of very loud air horns with the compressor under the flying bridge consol. When it's foggy we boat in the fog so the horns get a fair amount of use.

We also have a Standard Horizon LH5 hailer/intercom that will broadcast various horn timings and bell and siren signals from it's speaker horn outside. When we're in fog we set it to broadcast its horn tone every two minutes. When the LH5 horn goes off we hit the air horn button. This way we don't have to keep track of time intervals with a watch.

We've also used an oven timer to time air horn blasts.

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My favorite noise maker is the bicycle horn I occasionally use when entering or leaving a moorage, just to say hello to friends. You know the horn. The one with the rubber ball and a chrome trumpet attached. If I knew how to spell the sound, or describe it, I would. Any takers???

Carey wrote:


The one with the rubber ball and a chrome trumpet attached. If I knew how to spell the sound, or describe it, I would. Any takers???

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I've always called it a Harpo Marx horn.

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Hiya,
** Mr. Marin.* You pickin' on my brother?
http://www.tradeindia.com/fp466908/Taxi-Horn.html
** Nope, NOT a picture of Harpo, could be that horn*Mr. Carey's*refering to.

-- Edited by RT Firefly on Friday 10th of December 2010 08:05:51 AM

-- Edited by RT Firefly on Friday 10th of December 2010 08:06:22 AM

When Sailing offshore we usually used a 10W Euro 360 deg anchor light , instead of a tri color.

This would provide better info to any other vessel as near 100% of the white gets out , where about 90% of the red or green is absorbed.

A boat of 7 meters would be legal with this , we were 10m.

Don't think the Esso Maru would be passing within 3 meters so it was first choice.

Now with a motor boat the 4 - 25W units are no problem to power.